Doto [AdvCiv ModMod]

KingArthur666
wow...already you comleted a game :)

yap, my mod is kinda designed to be hard...on version 1.6, i even made more negetive bonueses..but most poeple didnt like that...


as for the cities,
well thats mylon mod - enhanced city size,
on the last 3 culture sizes, the city expands to 3 tiles instead of the normal 2, and on the last -legendary, it expands to 4 tiles.

if you dont like it - you can tweak it to your preferations on this file:
CIV4CultureLevelInfo.xml - theres a line on each level that defines the city size.

glad to know you like this,

say,
the unit and building costs, was it ok? not too high not too low?
 
Yeah, the buildings and units seemed to have good build times. I was playing on the normal speed setting. I finished with the domination with about 97 turns remaining. The only problem is the same one that always seems to crop up. When the empire becomes exceedingly large the research goes too fast. New units would become obsolete before I could build them. I built an airship and before I had a chance to use it or build more I was upgrading it to a fighter plane, and then to a jet plane. I never used riflemen. I went straight from musketmen and grenadiers to SAM infantry. Those kinds of things. I don't know how to get around this problem. It seems to be a problem in most games I've played vanilla and mods alike.
Now I think I'll start a game on the extended speed and see how that goes.
 
Oh, wait, I did think of something else. Is there some way to include your new resources into the corporations? I thought it a bit of a shame for all those lovely shrimps to be excluded from Sid's Sushi Co.
 
Okay, I'm going to try to point out all the weird things I find as I go along. Alt-Tab seems to be working okay, so this shouldn't be a problem.
Many of the civics say no state religion, but this is not true. This is very confusing and makes it more difficult to pick which civics to use if I don't want to give up my religion and all these civics seem to indicate that I will be.
Also, a very minor issue, but units with a ranged attack, ranged is spelled wrong.
 
Some errors I spotted so far in the unitinfos.
Modern work boat, has no improvements added in the xml, cannot build anything. Pillage should be removed.
Strike team, leopard, both have 1 movement when they should have 2.
Hellfire... swarm or such (:p) has hidden nationality.
MLRS seems very... buggy, not sure if it has hidden nationality tagged aswell.
When I added it to a player or barbarian, it had no flag and it disappeared as soon as I left the editor.

Work boat does not upgrade to modern workboat (which is probably good as the modern workboat doesnt "work":p )

I still question the purpose of riot police :D
 
Bastian-Bux , noted, ill add it to next release.

KingArthur666 .
the research - i know i did it to fast - its a speed issue - its one of the things ill fix in the patch, but 3000 should be better optimized (i made most of the testing with this one).

the civics...well also worked alot of it, if you could elaborate and tell me exactly what to fix, i shall.

Vanchelon , hey old buddy!

well, thank god i have you to track the bugs...i will implement all you wrote here to the patch.

riot police, humm..i kinda like this unit, but if it has no purpose, what do you suggest should i do to boost it? how about make it a limited unit (4) and give it some large bonues against some unit?

thanks alot guys for all the feedback,

everything you report - will get into patch a that will be out in a week or so, i wanna get alot of stuff fixed for it based on reports, so i wont need to do a patch B.

thanks people.
 
Hellenism, Islam, Judaism, and Zoroastrianism don't obsolete when you build the discover religion building. This means you can build those buildings in all your cities. Not a good thing for Civs that don't use one or both of these religions.
The Civics Rouge, Warrior Caste, Mercenaries, Shamanism, Herbalism, Gov H.C, and Pacifism all say no state religion. But at least some of them are lying. It is very confusing.
 
Okay, I've just got to ask Keldath. When playing the 3000 mode, do you start in a later era, or use the advanced start? Because I just started one to see what it was like and it was me pressing enter for over 100 turns learning tons of tech while my worker puttered around building stuff and my city built two warriors. Not too much fun there, and the techs seem to be going way too fast considering I can't build any units or buildings.
 
King Arthur, you should enable raging barbarians. ^^ Believe me, much more action that way.
 
Hi Keldath,

after trying OL 2.1.8 a bit I was thinking about your ressources. What do they accomplish that other ressources do not?

I'll go through all new ressources and ask for their game enhancing value, maybe this could help you decide which resources you realy need?

Amber: Gems, thats all they are. Does it do anything else? Why does it get an health bonus with a grocer? Why do you need a shaft mine? They are collected by hand at the baltic sea, someimes digged by (quarry?) at certain places. I do see only two reasons to include them: 1) to allow cities to grow bigger (increasing the happy limit), 2) if you included the Amber chamber (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amber_Room) as a wonder you'd have to use amber as a required resource. Even both together doesn't make amber a usefull resource I think. My suggestion: axe it.

Cloth: is not a resource per se. I suppose its a replacement for the proper resource: fibers (which are used to make cloth) which is ok. Its an important resource as it jump started the industrial revolution. PLUS: it makes workshops worth considering. BUT: till now its very much stand alone.
My suggestion: include a production building line, from a small weavery over a textile manufactury up to modern textile industry plants. They would require fibre and/or sheep and turn it into cloth, which would give happyness. Oh, and they would increase income of course.

Coffee: Basically a spice, but with happyness instead of health. Why not instead make a building (the typical Viennease Kaffeehaus) which requires spices, and gives happyness? Also a corporation might use spices to boil stupid old ladies and dish out insane amounts of money for doing so? ;) IMO you can easily replace coffee with spices. Alternatively subsume it together with tea and tobacco to luxury food/stimulant, which do have a similar, but more happyness related then health related line of usage. Sugar could be included in this line as well. Actually you might consider to let that resource add happyness, but substract health.

Diamond: gems as well. BUT: certain gems do have significant industrial uses. Like diamonds in saws and rubies in lasers. So my suggestion would be to axe diamonds, and instead give gems a (hammer) bonus in certain buildings or with certain technolgies.

Natural Gas: Coal, Oil, Natural Gas. The three mainstays of carbon based energy sources. I think it does make sense to keep Natural Gas as the third one, but it should be possible to change them into each other. Coal can be gasified and liquified, oil can be gasified and gas can be liquified. Building(s) that can accomplish this would make sense.

Oat: Oat, Barley, Wheat, Corn, Rice ... it all comes down to one thing: grain. Corn can be considered different due to its different form and due to the fact that it is a new world cereal. Same can be said about rice, representing the eastern variant. BUT: how many different carbohydrate plants do you need? Are they different enough to require resource slots? Instead of half a douzen different things that basically do the same (bringing calories into the food) I'd suggest to think about buildings that grant additional health bonuses. You can axe both potatoes and oat if their only reason to be there is a +1 health from the granary (and +5% income from ranch. I'd suggest to include the milld buildings (basically a "ranch" for the vegetables) which gives +5% food and an upgraded/modern mill which also gives +1 health each.

Pearls: gems, but in the water. Being a water resource, which are rather rare, it makes sense to keep them. But please include a jewelry, which gives +1 happyness from gems, pearls, gold and silver ... and take that bonus away from the forge. Forges are valuable enough as they are.

Potatoes: See oat, but being a significantly different plant from the grains, this should stay in. This way you'd have 1 plant each for both americas (corn and potatoes), 1 each for Europe (wheat, maybe better rename in grain) and Asia (rice) ... You might consider using soja as the plant for Africa if you do want 5 plants. Oh, and did I mention a brewery? Wodka from potatoes, sake from rice, beer from grain... Major happyness on the price of health.

Rubber: strategic resources. They do come in 2 kinds: the metals and the driving forces. Metals: Copper, Iron, Steel, Aluminum, Titanium. Driving: Feet, Horses, (Sulphur), Rubber and Oil, Natural Gas. With the metals its clear (consider getting steel in, as it is a major step up from iron). But the driving forces? For most of history it was the horse that carried the warrior. Sulphur did carry the war to the enemy further then an arrow could, so it should be in. But only with WW1 did we see a significant move away from horsepower. But is rubber realy needed if the units do need oil or natural gas already? I would suggest requiring all (combat) units to have two required resources: a metal and a driver. Ancient infantry will have no driver, as the infantriests had to carry themself. But movement shouldn't be higher then one for units without at least horses. I'd suggest axing rubber if you do not find important civilian uses (read buildings). If something needs rubber wheels, it also needs oil. One of them is enough.

Salt: I'd replace salt with the similar looking mineral resource. This resource could be extremely useful in all parts of the game. Mostly it should be a major health supporter, needing building (chemical plant?) to come to full power. Salt alone isn't that important, but chemical minerals are. Btw: a salt refinery doesn't give energy, it requires a lot of energy. SUlphur could be subsumed here.

Shrimp: crabs. No need to duplicate that resource. varech/kelp was different enough. Maybe instead of adding new resources here, you could consider the building "sea farm" giving +1 food, +1 hammer +1 money and thereby reflecting the multitude of uses from sea farming.

Sulphur: sea rubber and salt.

Timber: Do we need it? Wouldn't it make more sense, to make the lumbermill and forest preserve more worth it?

Titanium: definitely. The next step after Aluminum.

Tobacco: see Coffee.
 
Hellenism, Islam, Judaism, and Zoroastrianism don't obsolete when you build the discover religion building. This means you can build those buildings in all your cities. Not a good thing for Civs that don't use one or both of these religions.
The Civics Rouge, Warrior Caste, Mercenaries, Shamanism, Herbalism, Gov H.C, and Pacifism all say no state religion. But at least some of them are lying. It is very confusing.

Hi K and all.

I've been away for a while. I've helped K in the past with 'tidying up' some of his great work.

Herewith edited 'civ4buildinginfos' View attachment CIV4BuildingInfos.zip which should obsolete the discover_religion building as soon as the relevant religion is established. I hope I got em all, but it only works with a new game or if you go back to a savegame before discovering the tech that enables the discover_religion building. (Didn't we fix this once before K ?) Thinking about it, for future releases woudn't it be better to set all the max instances in buildingclassinfos to '1' for all the discover_religion buildings....?

I don't quite get your comment about the civics. Just being dumb I guess. What is it exactly that goes wrong? The xml looks good to me (but I don't understand why Govfunded healthcare should be no_state_religion; I changed it in my version of K's mod).

By the way if you're interested Keldath/ anyone, in my version of the K_mod, I also changed jungle clearing to generate a few hammers (leftover from Sevo days....)

Good to be around again. Busy-ish until Christmas but happy to help out where I can. Let me know O Keldath-the-great !
 
Bastian-Bux ,
as usuall, your my resource guru.

thanks alot for the detailed opnion, as i did before ill use your tips to tweak the resources.

i agree with most of what you wrote,
as for why did i replaced the old res...well there was a crash in v1.6 that was caused by something in the res and the improvment, i wasnt able to track it so i completely replaced all of them -and got over the crash.

o-pilotis-the amazing!

what kinda of a quastion is that??? offcource i want you version of the mod...heck...ill take any change that you make!
as before!!!
the civics religion thingy, well thats me - i issunderstood something in the civics relating the state religion, also the discover building obseletion.
ill be waiting for your files buddy.

KingArthur666
all you describe are due to low rate of researcg precentage in the speeds file, ill fix it.

again,
thanks b-b
 
And Kel.

I've been advised for the last FIVE MILLION GAME TURNS that there has been a "violent revolution in the English Empire". With victory horns ! Thank Keldath it wasn't with those damned Shinto claves. Dear K. How do we turn it off ?
 
I had that too in my last game. Except it was the Japanese. Sometimes the Koreans would try to emerge and immediately be crushed, sometimes it was my Civ trying to take over, and sometimes it was just general chaos. It drove me crazy. It happened on every single turn. If I hadn't been involved with a war on the other side of my Civ I would have attacked the Japanese just to stop that stupid revolution.
 
Keldath, what you need to look out for is the following:

using mylons increased city size modcomp you'll see cities reach approx double size of vanilla, assuming a third ring roughly doubles the workable tiles from 20 to 36. Most cities will never each the 4th ring, and the increased food production due to other things (better farms and such) is cut down by the more crowded together cities (most cities will not reach 36 tiles, but closer to the original 20). But this are guesstimates at best.

So I'd suggest you take a look at the following: how much does 3rd ring and technology improved improvements increase food output per city? My guesstimate is a factor of 2.

Now what you need to do is to increase the avaible health and happyness by the very same factor. Having more resources giving that boni is one way to do so, but is of limited use on smaller maps. Doubling boni given by resources and buildings would be another ... but boring way. Coming up with new buildings, and only introducing new resources if they do fill a significant role in a number of buildings OR even better allow a full new line of buildings/units is IMO the best way.

As an example: adding oat and potatoes to the game will give the granary two 67% more health boni. Adding soja instead of oat would be preferable, as it is a significantly "new" kind of plant, while oat is just another grain (same as wheat basically). If you add in soja and potatoes, and a brewery (using wheat, rice and potatoes for +2 happyness each but a flat -2 health) and a mill (giving +1 health for wheat, soja and rice), you added "only" two new resources (like now oat and potatoes), but increased the boni from +3 health to +6 happyness and +6 health.
 
Extract from a note by Keldath:
"I know some text and stuff are missing...i cant fix this by my own ...sorry to much time consuming, but its not gameplay buster :0"

K. If you've got 'tidying up' like this needs doing give me some brief advice and I'll happily do it. It gets me into the xml and teaches me some how all this stuff works. Sad - but I enjoy it.
And as you say not a 'game-buster' but kinda detracts some from the satisfaction.
 
I had that too in my last game. Except it was the Japanese. Sometimes the Koreans would try to emerge and immediately be crushed, sometimes it was my Civ trying to take over, and sometimes it was just general chaos. It drove me crazy. It happened on every single turn. If I hadn't been involved with a war on the other side of my Civ I would have attacked the Japanese just to stop that stupid revolution.

K. Please can you advise or get advice pleeeease. This really is driving me, the King (and probably others) kerrrrrazy! Looks like it's in the Python code.
 
damn...i wrote such a large post,

with instructions for you how to edit the text...and my web crashed...

anyway,
the recolution thing,
well i never played with rev on so im not sure what you guys mean,
its better to ask either in revdcm or revolution mod forums for that....

ill write you again how to edit the text.

b-b,
i also wrote a large portion for you...but it was deleted...
ill repost when ill get home from work.

thanks guys.
 
K. Please can you advise or get advice pleeeease. This really is driving me, the King (and probably others) kerrrrrazy! Looks like it's in the Python code.

For a start go into 'Options' and stop the audio. I did that a long time ago.

Keldath, I'm happy because I can play the latest version. Before that it was all jerky on screen even with lowest settings. Good game so far. Thanks.
 
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