Double Your Pleasure

[Nder]

Pig Boat is probably the "funnest" of all the possible names.

 

[thestonesfan]

I vote for one version to represent both WW1 and WW2 subs, then an attack and missile variety for Modern Times. We can't get too complicated.

Maybe to show the improvement of navies in WW2 you could make a new wonder (a small wonder if you could) and have it increase movement by 1, ala Megellan's Expedition. You might already be doing that though, I don't know. If you give naval units the blitz capability, that is a very significant improvement.

 

[gmbnz]

I vote for U boat as that name is what anybody will identafiy with a ww2 submarine

 

[Hindmost]

Is it possible to create a sub that can carry and launch planes? As I said earlier this was actually attempted and I just thought it would be interesting for civ, killing off the ai before it knows the subs are there

Also, I've had problems with spies being killed as soon as I send them into enemy territory too.

 

[RobO]

How about this:
Submarine
Attack Submarine
Nuclear Missile Submarine
Nuclear Attack Submarine

or the last two could be combined to just Nuclear Submarine

 

[Dingocat85]

Originally posted by thestonesfan
I vote for one version to represent both WW1 and WW2 subs, then an attack and missile variety for Modern Times. We can't get too complicated.

Too late for not getting complicated - have you seen how many different, conflicting ideas people are having?

Maybe to show the improvement of navies in WW2 you could make a new wonder (a small wonder if you could) and have it increase movement by 1, ala Megellan's Expedition. [/B]

I think the improvement of navies in WW2 is represented by the so much better ships they have

If you give naval units the blitz capability, that is a very significant improvement. [/B]

I don't think any ships should be able to blitz..AFAIK, Naval battles are really drawn out and time-consuming..with all the preparation time to plan a battle out, as well as with all the reequipping and recuperating after a battle, I think Blitzing should be a skill that hardly *any* units should be entitled to. Beyond tanks, maybe a bombard-only unit (i.e Modern Artillery) could be given Blitz...

Remember, you could always go into civ3edit and give units blitz - among many other things - to your heart's content

Regards,
.....Dingocat85

 

[mrgenie]

something to change to the mod-settings. I like playing strategy games by beeing strategic. but with the railroads build within 2-3turns and the knowledge RR gives you the ability to move everything in one turn, you can make RR throughout every square of your empire make all your empire almost as 1 big base. This is not stretegic, strategic in my opinion would be the ability someone have to tackle down a RR by bombardment making it unable for the other to reach one particular city and then strike this city. But with 8RR connections each city it's difficult to take out the ammount of RRtracks for such an strategic attack. Therefore I would suggest, to change this MOD when PTW comes out...making building a RR at about...1RRtrack in 10turns when you use 10engineers....that would make it important to build up your empire strategic and defend it strategic..I play now against the computer with these settings and it is fun to play this way, only that the computer is too stupid to take down the RRtracks.

 

[thestonesfan]

I think RobO figured it out. I vote for that solution.

Dingocat, no need to pick apart my post. And yes, those are changes I have made, I was just proposing a couple ideas. I thought the extra wonder was a great solution to getting more out of the limited ships we have. As far as WW2 ships being so much better than their predescessors, yes, they were better, but not overwhelmingly so, as many ships used in WW2 were built during or shortly after WW1.

And then there's the matter that they were essentially the same ship, just improved. A WW1 Battleship and a WW2 Battleship were both Battleships. Obviously, naming is an issue. Something like a small wonder to improve late-industrial ships over earlier ones, without requiring more ships with more names, is not a bad idea.

I give ships blitz because they were pathetically ineffective to begin with. I wanted a Battleship within bombardment range to be a major worry, and blitz is a great way to do that. Of course, five or six attacks (or whatever your movement is) in one turn is way too much, so I gave them two moves with "all terrain as roads" tagged. Destroyers I gave three. I assure you, this makes naval combat much more interesting. Your reasoning of naval battles being long and drawn out seems odd to me, since one turn is equal to a year in modern times. You could get off a lot of salvos in a year.

I gave blitz to artillery units from the cannon up, and each have two moves. After all, artillery is the king of the battlefield, and only using cavalry charges as your main offense is absurd. My battles of infantry and artillery seem much more realistic than hordes of cavalry, with no artillery support, beating entrenched foot soldiers. Beyond that, I gave it to all air units, and in my "all foot units have movement 2" games, I gave it to Marines.

Elephants can blitz too. Don't really have any reasoning for it I guess.

 

[RobO]

mrgenie, Railroads are a tough nut to crack. The movement ability is ridiculous, but it cannot be edited. We have already increased the cost of building a RR significantly, but you can offset that by just using more workers. And RR also provide a shield/food bonus, which is important to have, so its not good to limit the number of RR tiles too much.

I suppose we could increase the cost to build them a bit more, but there really is only one effective soluton: The movement effect should be editable. It is a good bet that Firaxis won't change that.

 

[mrgenie]

and, maybe we can make a petition at firaxis that railroad should be 3times that of the normal roads, or 4times whatever..cus, the railroad just makes it to easy to build up huge forces within 1turn...that's not normally and in the whole world no army is able to get every person of it's army at the same point in 1turn(or month in real life) and it's definatly spoiling the strategy playing...

 

[thestonesfan]

Maybe, but not offensive strategy. I don't mind being able to distribute my troops quickly among my own cities. But, having to build a railroad on every square is stupid. Rails should be set up to affect nearby squares for the bonus, but not the movement. That way, you wouldn't have to bomb eight squares to isolate a city, and one railway connecting cities would look much better. But, railroads were a revolutionary jump in transportation, so they should have a very big impact.

I think in Civ4 you should have to build trains and train stations, as well as merchant vessels and caravans. They could be automated so you wouldn't have to worry about moving them, but trade routes should have strategic importance, and they are pretty much invincible in the game.

 

[KDan]

Yeah, I agree on the railroad problem - but yeah, it's a fair bet that firaxis are too dumb to realise that the true interest of a game like civ3 lies in all the mods and customizations of it that can come out. I wonder why... if I was designing something like civ I would take great pains to leave it as customizable as possible - and something like civ3, designed to be fully customizable (I'm thinking xml files - or an open variation with support for AI scripts and such - for everything possible would have been nice) would be a major huge hit, not the moderately successful game with a big history that civ3 has been.

But anyway, they haven't done it, it's their loss - at least this way I waste less time playing this damn game! Missing out on a gold mine sucks when you put this much work into a game, but hell, it happens.

Daniel

 

[Kal-el]

I think RobO may have hit on the solution as well. Well done RobO, I knew there was a reason I hired you.

The way RR are implented in the game is a major problem. Maybe you are right, mrgenie, that we could increase their cost some more, but the real soultion would be to allow us to create other worker jobs and also control the movement rate of RRs.

 

[bshirt]

It certainly would be realistic to change the railroad movement to something like four times the road movement.

I wonder if Firaxis would be open to a bribe?

 

[RobO]

Originally posted by Kal-el
Well done RobO, I knew there was a reason I hired you.

Why, Thank you I'm honoured.
As you like to say, I aim to please
most of the time

 

[Dingocat85]

Originally posted by thestonesfan
I think RobO figured it out. I vote for that solution.

Dingocat, no need to pick apart my post.

No hard feelings

 

[Guardian-Azure]

second only to world domination I'm sure robo...

 

[mrgenie]

maybe you all have to watch this site:
http://homepage.eircom.net/~steven/
they have some navy vessels and aircrafts of future and the statistics to build a real scenario about the world today.

 

[mrgenie]

btw, this Winter palace, it uses the picture of the most beautiful "Schloss" Castle in the world, which is very good of course. But in southern germany, where it is located. they Call it: "Schloss Neuschwanstein" I think maybe this would be a better name for it as Winter palace....it sound to much asian for me, since the asians all have winter palaces. in Europe normally the castles have names, like Neuschwanstein but not "winter"! ))

 

[Kal-el]

The Winter Palace is a generic term. I am using the Neuschwanstein image because I think it is a beautiful castle and I had a good image I could use for the pediaicons image. It is a Small Wonder so everybody can build it, and I thought it would be wierd if everybody were building "Neuschwanstein."

The fact that it is called a Winter Palace is only to distinguish it from your Summer Palace. It has nothing to do with anything else than that.