Double Your Pleasure

[Roluce]

Grey Fox,
Obviously, you don't understand the history of the flat/round issue. And sure, anyone can produce examples of religious based ignorance. Just as anyone could produce example of ignorance in any group. But I'm not interested in debating any particular issue of religion vs. science, I'm just saying that your statement about religion is generally false when considering the actual history of it's relationship to science. Over the course of recorded history, religion and religious people have played major roles in the development of the "tech" tree, to deny this is essentially to re-write history. Just because some have a "modern" bias against religion, and just because religion and science have a "love/hate" relationship, does not mean that religion hasn't greatly influenced our world of thought in positive ways. In fact, there are certain periods of history where religious people were the only ones keeping science alive. True, religion can also breed ignorance and narrow minded believism that negates or discourages real scientific analysis, but in the grand scheme of history it has produced major accomplishments and advances. To me, objecting to an historical connection between religion and science advancement is uneducated, obviously ignorant of historical truth, and perhaps biased.

Yes, the earth is round - and it was religious men and religious thought that inspired the challenge to the popular opinion of the day. Check it out.

 

[Gelvan]

Peace brothers

I'd say 'a' Religion most often considers science as a danger to the absolute power the Religion provides to the people who are lucky to be in the upper ranks of this Religion. It's simple: the more the people know, the less it's nescessary to believe in a Religion (Rennaissance proves this opinion). In the world of Civ this is already reflected by Theocracy Governments, where your maximum science output is capped.

BUT - it is of course also true, regarding history, that a monastery, often ruled by wise, relaxed people, stored scientific books, made alchemistic progress and therefore - seen from an "upper view" - contributes a form of science to the civilization it's connected with.

In other words: both of you are right, from a given point of view.

 

[Roluce]

Gelvan, you are looking at things primarily from a "power" point of view. I agree that religious power corrupts, for that matter all power corrupts. History is replete with examples of religious and political idealogies that repressed scientific information (or any thought that would weaken their position) in order to solidify and maintain their position of power over the masses. As you have said, it "considers science a danger to the absolute power." Hence Theocracy. This is rightly stated in terms of political power, however, that does not preclude the idea that religious ideas and inspiration have contributed massively to scientific, cultural, philisophical, and political ideas thoughout history. Nor does it mean that religious "powers" necessarily reflect the influence or outcome of their religion. Many times the ideas seeded from religion have birthed huge gains (my opinion) in civilization advancement - far exceeding their leaders attempts of control. Examine the Reformation, the religious seeds of Democracy, freedom, the Emancipation, the religious roots for medical research, Education, Higher Education, just to name a few. In fact, it is almost impossible to seperate many advances without "religious" influence. Just the idea that religion and science are opposing forces is quite an incredible leap. Powermongers have tried to control both science and religion. I was merely responding to the stated idea that religion necessarily leads to scientific repression. Such a thought would be extremely modern and untrue to history.

Faith (religion) does not necessarily preclude science anymore than science necessarily precludes faith (religion).

 

[Grey Fox]

Some religious people still have no faith in science, and shuns the evolution theory. And tries to ban it from being thought in school etc...

But you are correct. Religion has not always stood in the way of science, and I guess you are correct about the monastery thing.

 

[Roluce]

Grey Fox,
And you are correct as well. Some religious people are quite critical of science or at least any science that doesn't support their belief. And on the other side, some people are overly sceptical of religion, believing that science has somehow answered all the questions or at least disproven religious teaching. In truth, both have been proven wrong on many occassions. And in truth, neither can claim undeniable evidence. While I don't know all there is to know about the evolution theory, I am quite sure that science has not ruled out the plausibility or even the great statistical probability that existence is dependent upon some higher creative power. And on the other hand, I have not seen undeniable proof on the religious side either. In some ways, the more we know about the world (science), the more questions we have. Religion attempts to answer those questions, but sometimes in the most illogical way. But existence is itself a great mystery, one that demands our attention and exploration. To some, neither science or religion has adequetely proven much of anything, while others find great purpose, inspiration, and resolution in what science or religion have said. As one searcher to another, there are greater questions than I have answers. Recognizing the value and limitations of science and religion is a healthy way to remain alert to the possible answers, or at least to help us keep both ears open.

Hope I didn't seem overbearing or rude, butting into the conversation about monastaries like I did. If so, I apologize.

 

[Roluce]

Oh, and back to the point of why I was reading the thread in the first place - Could I get info on how to get the current beta?

 

[Isak]

Thanks for getting back on topic, Roluce

And we are a bit reluctant to post that info right now, as none of us want to get moderated again, so please go back a page or two, or go to our website and look for our forums for now. Sorry about that inconvenience. I'm awaiting response on what we can and cannot do, and hope to get that soon.

 

[Donegeal]

The discussion of a DyP demo game at Apolyton is tending to drift to other areas. If some of you DyP officals would post more about the game, we might be more inclined to go for it. Please do this. I really want to see what a DyP Demo game could look like.

 

[RobO]

Donegal, I did a search at Aployton but couldn't come up with anything looking like a DyP demo. Please drop me a link via email or PM.

 

[dguichar]

Originally posted by Yoda Power
you could make the Hanging Gardens scientific, that way Babylon would get its GA by building that.

It'll be nice, but i'd like to be sure that those gardens were really scientific. It surely may, if there are any mathematics principles in that building.

Weren't any other scientific wonders in ancient times?
I always thought that Aztec pyramids were observatories...
What about the Acrópolis? It was a stairs like city upon a hill... there should be some science involved.

I'm not going for giving every civ an specific wonder that gives it it's golden age. Just the ones that really existed...

Keep civilized (and doubling your pleasure)

David

 

[Chuma]

After seeing this mod pack included with PTW I decided to download the full version and have a game.

I have PTW 1.21F installed.

For some reason some of the buildings aren't displaying properly. In the attached picture you can see it says the Colosuss is the granary and the pyramid is the forge.

Has anyone else had the same problem?

Thanks.

 

[pdescobar]

Quoting a post by RobO elsewhere,

The overhead city view is messed up because we have rearranged the order of improvements and wonders in DyP. Unfortunately, the order of improvements in the city view is hardcoded, so the only way to change this (barring a bug fix) is to remake the graphics going into the city view.

We do not have the time for nor the interest in such an endeavour - our efforts are best spent elsewhere.

 

[Isak]

And in addition to that, even if we did go about changing the graphics, we would only be able to do so for the first 65 improvements, so that's 80% of the regular buildings and none of the Small and Great Wonders.

 

[Grey Fox]

I don't know if this is the right place to report bugs, but I can build the Forge in every city without even having iron.

 

[Isak]

Yep, that looks like a bug alright, but in fact the Iron requirement was removed in order to entice the AI to build some of the early production boosters.

It's quite possible the civilopedia isn't up to date on that change though - fortunately that is no longer my dept.

But thanks for reporting it, and please continue to report whereever you see fit - we hang around here too, as you see

 

[Grey Fox]

Ah, good thing it's not a bug. It would feel like an exploit to build them if that was not the design.

Now I can build them with a conscience.

 

[pdescobar]

It's a good thing they don't require iron cause then civ3 would get even angrier when I tried to look at the iron civilopedia screen Anyhow, I think all questions should be posted here as well as "other places." How else would this thread reach 3k posts or 100k views? Alright, that's enough silliness from me for now...

 

[Kal-el]

well, if we add up all the posts on this thread and at that other place we have nearer to 5000 posts.

 

[Warlock]

I can't build build the garrison and the military academy despite I’ve already researched leadership. Is that a bug? I’m playing standard CIV3 (1.29 patched) with DyP v 0.91. Pls help.
Keep up with excellent work!!!

Tomas

 

[RobO]

Originally posted by Warlock
I can't build build the garrison and the military academy despite I’ve already researched leadership. Is that a bug? I’m playing standard CIV3 (1.29 patched) with DyP v 0.91. Pls help.

Miltary Academy requires a victorious army.
Im pretty sure that Garrison is only available in the PtW version, but I can't find the proper spreadsheet here. All indications point to that, tough.

Keep up with excellent work!!!

Will do