Double Your Pleasure

[VimesUK]

Here is my save game...

Save game from DYP

You can notice that Hamburg is a number of turns off finishing a worker but the turns do not go down even though time passes and the other cities construction does change. Although Hamburg's 'countdown' to growth does continue.

This happens also when I selected a 'settler' type unit to build, as I described, but I never saved a game at that point I recognised that there are too many differences in this mod for me to continue without first trying to bring some understanding to what I'm doing


Morgan

 

[Turner]

Looking at it now. . .

Edit:

Okay, see what's going on. First off, you're in a poor location. The thing to keep in mind about DyP is that it's a different game based on the same engine. Kinda like the difference between, oh, Unreal Tournament and ST:Elite force. Both use the same game engine, but they're very different games. The same is true for DyP and Civ.

In DyP, each pop needs three food, as opposed to two in regular civ. So that's why you're seeing slower development. Ideally, you want to start near a flood plain, as that give more food. Or near some good bonus grassland with cattle. Your starting position isn't the best, but overall it's not bad. It'll be much better when you get past Despotism, when the food penalty is taken away.

Berlin and Leipzip are okay. They are making Clans, who take two pop points. You have enough to cover that. Since there's so much jungle there, you might want to consider chaning to Hardy Clans. Regular Clans cannot go through jungle w/o roads. So change them to Hardy, and it'll take longer, but they also loose less pop than a regular.

Hamburg, however, only has one pop. People tend to forget that workers take pop points. So with Hamburg having only one pop, you'll need to wait until it grows to size two before it can finish the worker. It will sit there and wait until Hamburg is big enough before finishing the worker. So in a situation like that, it might be better to make a worker from Berlin and send him over to Hamburg.

Keep in mind, you don't get to build mines until Construction, and Irrigate until Crop Rotation. By that time, you'll hopefully be past despotism, and the food penalty will go away. Which will make it easier to expand.

It's tough, at first, but that's part of what makes the game more challenging.

 

[Kal-el]

a city needs to be one size larger than the pop cost of the unit being produced. It will not produce the unit unless it can spare the population. The only time this is not the case is when the city growth is stagnant at which time the governor will ask if you want to abandon the city. This is normal with Civ3.

 

[VimesUK]

Thank you to you both for your clarification to my confusion. I am creating a map, as suggested, to try and bring some better understanding to what I am trying to do - improved greatly with your help - most appreciated.

Morgan

 

[VimesUK]

Well I have played my own custom map for several hours and I am so impressed by this mod.

I am now gaining some understanding of the build penalties as well as the additional structures and buildings. The science research is now huge but what impresses me the most is the almost lack of redundancy built in to every unit.

The upgradability of my naval units AND their stats is just incredible. The additional units and their professional creation is staggering.

Well done with the tremendous and detailed work that you and your team have achieved



Morgan

 

[Kal-el]

you are welcome.

 

[Grey Fox]

When will Rise & Rule be released?

 

[zulu9812]

I imagine it'll be a few months yet

 

[Kal-el]

all I can tell you is we are working on it.

 

[Isak]

If Firaxis fix the corruption issue in the beta patch next week, our beta of Rise and Rule will be released soon after that (to the testers of course). There hasn't really been much need to rush it, since the corruption bug is pretty detrimental to our 3 extra palaces

 

[VimesUK]

Hello

In my game that I'm playing against 12 other civs this is a concern that I have.

I have met...

English
Spanish
Russia
Iroquois
Aztecs
America
Sioux

All the above I have now had contact with and all of them have Democracy as their government choice.

The date is 1335AD

I have not met the Celts as yet nor any other civ on the huge map that I'm playing.

To me it doesn't seem right that their choice of government is democracy as it doesn't seem to 'fit' with their civ.

For instance I would have thought that the Spanish have a Monarchy.

Wars are going on all the time with me at war with two others and was at war with four of them that signed up against me. No problem in that but it doesn't seem to fit with their government choice or attributes that I would associate with civs like the Sioux.

Morgan

 

[Isak]

I'm afraid we can't really do anything about it. There is a setting in the editor where you can set the Civs 'Preferred Govt' and 'Shunned Govt', but the AI only goes for whichever Government is assessed to be the best, regardless of what those settings are. Only in the instance where two governments were nearly equal, and the AI had one of them on it's Preferred/Shunned setting, would this preference come into play.

Out of curiousity - do you know which 'more advanced' forms of government the AI civs have knowledge of. If they stay in Democracy (which is supposed to be the Ancient Greek style of Democracy) way into the Industrial Age, then that is a completely different problem, which we will need to do something about.

 

[VimesUK]

Interesting what you have written. I understand about the shunned gov't and the preferred one but with Monarchy being researched quite early on I would have expected Spain to have been that. Understanding that it was the Spanish that tried to get a tech from me by threat, which I refused, they then declared war on me and yet they are a democracy - doesn't make sense.

As for your second part I am playing as a Feudal Monarchy style and didn't bother to adopt later styles of government. Now when I try and trade with the other known civs or steal a technology I find that there is nothing on offer that I haven't already got.

So no I'm not exactly sure if they have a more 'advanced' form of government researched but even if they did I find credibility an issue that all 7 of them are a democracy.

I can see some Viking cities starting to be revealed by my scout ship and when I contact them it would be strange to not find them using Depotism regardless, at this stage, on whether they have researched Democracy or not.

The cost of war weariness for them must be huge as they always seem to be at war.

I shudder to meet the Mongol warlord head of a Democratic government

Maybe in time I might find that they adopt their preferred choice wen it has been researched by them, if it hasn't already.




Morgan

 

[Kal-el]

The Governments in DyP: (in general order of appearance)

Anarchy - Default, try and stay out of this as much as possible.

Chiefdom - Early tribal government, not good for large empires. Get out of it as soon as possible to relieve the tile penalty.

Monarchy - This is not your father's Civ3 monarchy. This represents the earliest monarchies of the Egyptian Pharoahs, Mesopotamian Priest-Kings and Emperors of China. It's better than the primitive chiefdom, but don't let the name fool you.

Republic - Meant to represent the Republic of Rome this government is good for raising large armies in preparations for building your early empire.

Democracy - Here we were trying to model the Democracy of Athens, though the limitations of the game make that nearly impossible. In a DyP Democracy youget the tile bonus (this is why the AI loves it) which means your coffers will fill up much faster. It is, however much less suited for waging wars than its cousin the Republic. Units cost more and you get fewer free, in addition there is war weariness to contend with.

Feudal Monarchy - This is what most people will remember as Monarchy. In the FM you are able to support a large army as long as your settlements remain towns or cities.

Fundamentalism - Fundamentalist governments are good for raising large armies, but don't go over your alloted support because each unit above that will cost you. The major drawbacks to the Fundamentalist government are the poor rate cap and the low worker rate.

Theocracy - One of only two governments that do not require maintenance for buildings the Theocracy is ideal for peaceful players who just want to develop their empires without any expansionistic goals. Theocracies recieve very few free units, and have a high war weariness, in addition they have a low rate cap and low worker rate. You should be able to make a lot of money as long as you don't try to field a large army.

Absolute Monarchy - One of the better governments with no real major disadvantages.

Communism - Communal corruption, low war weariness and lots of troops. This one is for the war mongerers.

Fascism - Pretty much the same as Communism but without the communal corruption. The overall corruption level should be nearly the same as under communism.

Constitutional Monarchy - Low corruption, some war weariness and the tile bonus. This is one of the top governments.

Federal Republic - very similar to CM, but with tile bonus, minimal corruption and high war weariness.

Social Democracy - Communal corruption, tile bonus, no improvement maintenance, high war weariness, and few troops. If you have complete control of the planet this is the governement for you.

 

[Grey Fox]

Kal-El, doesn't Theocracy have Communal corruption too?

I think I liked it because of that...

 

[Kal-el]

yep, Theocracy and Fundamentalism

 

[Isak]

Oooh, a history lesson. Neat .

Now why weren't schools like this back in the 80'es.

 

[VimesUK]

Excellent break down there on the different styles of Governments and how they are applied in DYP

Again many thanks to you


Morgan

 

[gollum]

Why are communism besed on soviet under Stalin. If you have e true communist-state it should have high war weariness, no corruption, and lots of happy people. Communism should not be warmonger goverment, only facsism should be that. Have communism as a Social Democracy but with som modifcation to mirror the fact that all production is shared. Ex less trade bonuses.

Olof

 

[Kal-el]

Not going to happen there, Gollum. There are no true "Communist" states in the sense that you and Marx are describing. What we think of as communism is really Stalinism. So, in DyP Communism = Stalinism. It's the sort of Communism that was practiced in the Soviet Union, China, North Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, etc.