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Dune Wars 1.9 Final Release Feedback

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Dune Wars' started by Deliverator, Nov 22, 2010.

  1. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

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    I can confirm this, right now any city can build those buildings
    Anyway, I think religion present in the city should be enough, do not make them require state religion
     
  2. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    Do you, as a human player, ever adopt Thinking Machines state religion?

    If none of the benefits from Thinking Machines require you to adopt it as state religion, why would you ever bother to do so? Its such a late-game thing that chances are you already have some other religion spread through most of your cities. This is my concern.
     
  3. Lajbi

    Lajbi Chieftain

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    First of all I love the concept and respect the efforts you guys put in it. I had my first three experiences with it getting a harder level each time. Now I'm at Emperor/Epic/Tleilaxu. and I have a few questions and remarks:
    *The goody-huts-turned-botanic-gardens made my game won in turn 3. I received a vulture thopter and viped out the 4 closest civs in 10 turns. I could keep 4 cities that made a total of six to me (I only had to found one more city except the capital and I'm already at tturn 150 or so). So it really makes a big overwhelming military presence too early (and it comes too often as House Harkonnen also received one but I successfully outmaneovered it and captured the capital guarded by only one scout thopter and eliminated the civ leaving their Vulture being lost with it)
    *I cannot use the Axlotl tanks. Nothing happens. I kept my Vulture thopter and upgraded it to Falcon and it had 120 XP points but none of the falcons inherit his promotions. Is it because the upgrade? It needs to be fixed. Although I'm almost winning a strategic victory and giving all the 20-30 falcons the same promotions would result in a mid-game victory to me.
    *Also I have a fifteen-some cities and I cannot scroll the offworld trade screen to have the reinforcements arrive in the newly occupied cities at the bottom of the list.
     
  4. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    Some interesting points here. I can see that if you managed to luck out and get a thopter on the first few turns that would be very strong, even with the "poorly maintained" penalty.
    Maybe poorly maintained should also give an additional city attack penalty?

    I think we're considering changing axolotl tanks to a new design. I don't really understand their current implementation very well sorry.
     
  5. Omsion

    Omsion Chieftain

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    Going back to this. Link to save.

    The area of interest is on the border between the Freman and Corrino.
    2N1E of the barbarian city Cave of Voices are 2 Corrino Laza Tigers.
    2N of the barbarian city are a stack of Freman units (3 Crysknife, 1 Bladesman) and a Corrino Quad and Infantry.

    The cause of the EoT freeze would be the Corrino Infantry unit. Removing that allows the game to continue. Alternately, removing the Laza Tigers also allows the game to continue. I have no idea why one or the other works.

    Anyway, do take another look at the hidden nationality implementation. FFH (still not all resolved?) also had a whole host of freezes and crashes related to HN units (though I personally never encountered any myself).

    EDIT:
    Found a few fixes in the FFH patch notes - would any of these apply here as well?
     
  6. skunkpuppy

    skunkpuppy Chieftain

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    One more thing, I'm not sure if the Ix get "unhappiness-free" versions of the Automated Factories/Research Centres.
     
  7. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    Agree that HN is a potential cause of crashes. No idea if the FFH fixes would help.
    My personal preference is that I don't really like the Laza Tiger implementation; it feels wrong to have them going around slaughtering full strength units, and HN doesn't work that well. I think they'd be more interesting if, rather than making then HN, we made then like a FFH-assassin unit, that attacked the weakest unit in the stack. So we could make then say strength 3, +100% vs guardsmen and melee, marksman.

    We had some differences in opinion in design over whether IX should get less unhappiness from the Thinking Machines buildings. It can be confusing to have UB replacement versions, but we could have the buildings give +1 happy with Ixian Technologies. But I'm also not that bothered by having Ix be the same as everyone else here either.
     
  8. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

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    After thinking more about this, probably the best solution would be, that Automated Factories and Automated Research Centres requires the Thinking Machines religion present in the city, but they don't give any unhappiness if you adopt it as a state religion. For all factions
    It sounds quite logical for me this way, and seems nice for gameplay
     
  9. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    Something like that seems reasonable. It would be simple to implement. Or we could combine these.
    We could make them: Requires Thinking Machines, +3 unhappy, +2 happy if thinking machines is state religion, and maybe +1 happy with Ixian weaponry resource.
     
  10. Maq

    Maq Chieftain

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    Hey there.
    Long time reader, first time poster here.
    I've downloaded this mod only 2 days ago and i love it. I'm a big fan of Dune and you guys did a really good job there. In fact this mod even made me register on the forums ;)

    However, i come not without feedback/bug reports/questions.

    Yesterday i started a game as Fremen and what surprised me was, that the Guardsmen didn't recieve their free sandrider promotion. The pedia entry about fremen states, that all fremen light foot units get this promotion. Since my capital was kind of isolated on a lonely island in the far southeast, i had quite a hard time supporting my new founded sietch.
    I overcame this problem by researching suspensor vehicles, but i don't think fremen should ever rely on those, right?

    Later in the game i built my first suspensor carrier. (i decided to screw roleplay at some point.) I stationed 2 Wasp fighters on it and then i desperately searched the intercept button. It was gone!
    How should i protect my fedaykin from air attacks in the desert now? :(
    Don't know if it's intended that interceptors can't intercept on carriers.

    The next thing is, i can't make an alliance with others. I traded them the tech required for alliances. Is it because i'm at war with the bene tleilax? But so are they. Maybe I'm unaware of some game mechanics there.

    Looking forward to test the other factions. Bene Gesserit look really tempting to me :)
     
  11. skunkpuppy

    skunkpuppy Chieftain

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    The botanical station free vulture thopter (albeit poorly maintained) is too powerful. If you get that early enough you can wipe out at least two or three nearby civs until they get infantry. With the first couple of kills you can easily get the Desert II promotion, which makes the vulture very powerful. Perhaps just a free Scout Thopter will do?
     
  12. Crighton

    Crighton Emperor

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    One bug to report: starting a custom game the game crashes to desktop if I choose either random starting period or the thrid time period (the name of which escapes me at the moment).
     
  13. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    I just wrote a really long post describing our challenge with this, but then somehow hit the back button in my browser, and lost the post. Sorry, can't repeat it.

    Summary version:
    Current implementation has sandrider only for melee, not guardsmen.
    Its problematic to change this, and to remove suspensors because of:
    a) AI issues
    b) Unit roles (we don't want too many roles filled by too many units)
    c) Empty tech-tree (we don't want too many techs empty/useless for Fremen)
    d) Balance (we want Fremen in deserts to be vulnerable to thopters and hornets)

    We've thought about this before, and ideally we'd like Fremen to be even more different, but its hard to implement.

    * * *
    I've never actually gotten one. Its possible (not sure) that this result is blocked on higher difficult levels?
    Possible solutions are:
    a) Add a city attack penalty to poorly maintained
    b) Add a minimum turns or tech requirement (the one that gives infantry?) to the vulture thopter result.

    Also, see the design thread here:
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=361625

    We specifically wanted to avoid results that are too weak or boring; free scouts or map revealed tend to fall into this category.
     
  14. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

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    On Vulture Thopters, I'm sure this depends on difficulty level. I never got one so far...
    This is vanilla behavior, for examlpe there you cannot get settler from Noble diff.

    Anyway, they do seem very powerful, even if they get city attack penalty
    I think botanical gardens should add a weaker unit instead
     
  15. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    There really isn't anything weaker that it is still useful. Getting a lone infantry unit or soldier out in the middle of nowhere is pretty useless. Particularly if its stuck on an island.

    I suppose we could have an effect where you discover enough weaponry to outfit an infantry unit - but receive it in your capital, instead of on the tile?
    Infantry in capital would be useful.
     
  16. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

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    This sounds much better for me
    It can also be impemeted by adding production bonus to the capital
     
  17. Crighton

    Crighton Emperor

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    having it pop a settler or a worker unit might be an idea
     
  18. Lajbi

    Lajbi Chieftain

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    -Ok. I tested again so I played Emperor and I started a new game choosing Harkonnen/Mammoth/Epic : From the botanical gardens I received:
    *a quad (-20% poor condition)
    *an infantry (when I and the enemies only had soldiers)
    *another infantry (and remember infantries don't get the -20% penalty, because they are "tribes" that "join" you)
    I eliminated two civs with them. The quad got upgraded so its minuses were balanced. 30% of gardens gave a unit. I guess it was only my game luck but the quad means the Emperor difficulty gitfs strong vehicles.
    *I only experience such problems when playing with the Harkonnens. Custom game doesn't start (LAUNCH icon doesn't react) and I cannot quit neither. Loading is remarkably slower and there's a big pause at the start of every turn. Loading saved games crash to desktop with "memory allocation error". And these only happen when playing with the Harks the others work perfectly.
     
  19. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    Both of these would be incredibly powerful in the early game. As in vanilla, things like this will only be available on the very lowest difficulty levels.

    Wow, I have never managed to get three units. Perhaps because of the Mammoth map size. I normally play on standard, or large at the biggest.
    I'm surprised though, if you're playing a really big map, I would think that enemy factions would be far enough away that they'd have some defense by the time you got to them, and that you'd start losing units to or taking damage from waterstealers or other barbarians.
    Epic gamespeed also contributes obviously, because it takes more turns for the AI to build up defenses, and so the free units are coming even earlier in a relative sense.

    We could increase the poorly maintained penalty to 30%, and/or add city attack penalty.

    But we don't want the bonuses to be too weak. Part of the point was to really try to keep away from "dud" benefits like revealed maps.
     
  20. clearbeard

    clearbeard King

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    Yet another new player here, and like many I seem to have been tempted by the Fremen out of the gate. Anyway, I'm having the same problem with infantry and defending my settlements. The core of the problem is, when I tech to be able to build Infantry, who cannot enter desert on foot, I can no longer build soldiers, who can. Fremen don't get scout thopters as an early transport, which means cities on other rock formations (and my starting rock pad was quite small) at best can only be defended by fremen scouts until they can build their own defenders. Makes escorting settlers against barbarian threats a wee bit difficult as well, if only strength 1 units are available for the duty.

    As a fix, I'd be happy with soldiers not going obsolete so quickly. If I could move a soldier with my settler, then even upgrade it to infantry in the new city if necessary, that would be fine.

    Anyway, loving it so far. I'm probably going to abandon this game and start a new one, since expansion is so stifled currently, but that's okay. Haven't noticed anything glaringly in need of change otherwise. Sandworms seem rather tame with their slow movement, but that could easily be a factor of playing the Fremen. And I agree that early vultures from goody huts seem very powerful, though I did not use mine very aggressively (or effectively: I like to scout the map too much), from reading others' comments.

    Edit: A minor bug I came across starting my new game: When regenerating the map (Arrakis type, haven't tried archipelago), all the spice disappears.

    Another question: what happens with the Tlielaxu religion's founding if there are more than one player of that faction? Will both factions get the religion, with one being the "founder"? With only 9 factions, this is quite likely for default settings on maps larger than "large."
     

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