Dune Wars Art Thread

[Deon]

Keep 'em coming! The color scheme is really great.

I'm currently watching Dune (1984) as Davidlallen suggested, and I've paused at the episode where Paul and his mother are carried into desert into a Harkonnen flying vehicle (considering it's size it may be a troop transport, but the prisoners were in the cabin and there's not a lot of space, so it could be a combat ship).

I paused to make this ship:

Spoiler :

The outside view appeared only in a few very short scenes so it was hard to catch the details, but I think it's pretty close to the original.

 

[Ahriman]

Could make a good suspensor gunship unit, perhaps?

 

[Slvynn]

Yeah, nice one i remeber it
We can also start building concepts for civ-specific design/architecture features.
Example: Harkonnen - Big Turbines, square forms.
Ordos : Round ellipsoid forms, thin, look futuristic-smooth-speedy, and bit fragile.
Atreides - thin angle-triangle forms, winged-birdish forms.
Tleilaxu - bio-forms *ants and stuff* zergs, bacteries amoebas, biological
Ix - very simple, mechs, robots, transformers
Ecaz - weird drug influenced non symetric, surrealistic forms?
Corrino - pompous, designed, crafted.
BG - ?????????

etc...
That will help us with design of UB and units alot.

 

[Deon]

I want to ask about a suspensor craft. I couldn't find anything useful about it by googling, is it basically a hover craft? Which features should it definitely have and which should it avoid? And moreover, is there a suspensor craft in the book?

Also I thought as a monument building for Atreides, a monument with an eagle/falcon would work.

Some time ago I've made a Turul statue, which features sandstone (easily retexture-able though) and a big predator bird, which may be handy. It's in my signature.

 

[Slvynn]

I want to ask about a suspensor craft. I couldn't find anything useful about it by googling, is it basically a hover craft? Which features should it definitely have and which should it avoid? And moreover, is there a suspensor craft in the book?

Also I thought as a monument building for Atreides, a monument with an eagle/falcon would work.

Some time ago I've made a Turul statue, which features sandstone (easily retexture-able though) and a big predator bird, which may be handy. It's in my signature.

Can you mix that and normal Aerie to make Atriedes UB Aerie? (with some retexturizing perhaps), making that building just like command tower, hight building with windows, and may be entrance?

Also btw that bird looks like Atreides Omnithopters.
Triangle wings, round bird-featured head, white color, and much more thinner body.

 

[Ahriman]

Tleilaxu - bio-forms *ants and stuff* zergs, bacteries amoebas, biological

Tleliaxu buildings shouldn't have biological stuff. They make biological stuff in their laboritories, but they are human, not zerg; their buildings are made of normal construction materials, not biomass.

Ecazi are again a normal traditional house that happens to have some rich bio-compounds. They *sell* the drugs for profit, they dont' particularly use them themselves. So I think a hippy-ish drug-induced style wouldn't suit them at all.
I would think about "traders" as their visual theme, rather than "drug users".

Harkonnen - Soviet, stalinist architecture. Big, imposing, sheer surfaces, sharp angles, heavy industry
Ordos : sounds good. Maybe add in some east asian/pagoda-ish styles.
Atreides - sounds good. Maybe a few ancient greek overtones (or orthodox church styles)
Tleilaxu - stunted, religious - maybe some twisted gothic cathedral type things. Also somewhat Indian/south asian styles ("Bandalong" and many other names imply some south asian feel).
Ix - mechanical, industrial, electronic, fancy tall buildings but regimented underclasses
Ecaz - bright lights, modernist, trade-oriented, maybe think of Morganites from SMAC a little.
Corrino - imperial, think maybe victorian england or HRE, or prussian
BG - lots of stone, romanesque cathedral styles, stained glass windows

I want to ask about a suspensor craft. I couldn't find anything useful about it by googling, is it basically a hover craft?

Its like a hovertank, not like a hovercraft as in a contemporary one with an air cushion.
There are many references in the books to suspensors and suspensor vehicles.

 

[davidlallen]

Ok, done fixing gamefonts file

Minnor issue : seems i made gray and red drops biiiit smaller than blue one....

1. Removed white pixels around Landsraad icon
2. Added canon Imperial icons
3. Added more blue to Spice Melange icon
4. Added Water Consumption and Water Starvation icons

Great, thanks! I put it into my local area and the religion icons are all correct now.

I am a little confused on the city screen and the new water icons. Please see attached screenshot and arrows. It looks a little strange because I moved the edges of the screenshot in towards the center, so part of the center is missing. The city is starving, but I do not see the negative water icon. At the left side, the arrow shows another place where the bread icon appears; I think this part of the display is only available in BUG. At the right side, the arrow shows some very dark icon. I am not sure what it is or why it is there. Is it possible you inserted one of the new icons in the wrong location in gamefonts?

 

[davidlallen]

Attaching relevant zip file for uncompressed fpk, copy buttons dir to interface dir within packed art folder.

This is a big improvement over the previous. I think the color scheme is nice. Please take the following long list as *constructive* feedback, I think we are making great progress.

I have attached two screenshots. I made both of them as gif format so that jpg does not introduce any noise into the screenshot. The first one is the "edit unit" dialog in WB, which shows all the promos. This is a handy way to keep track of what is done, and what remains to be done. This shows a few things:

a. City Raider 3 is too "complex". The background is basically all solid.

b. Suspensor Disruptor is "abstract", it is hard to tell what it is. I am not sure what shape to suggest.

c. Shock I, II are the same. Desert Warfare I, II are the same. Once you add the icons, it will take a tiny xml change to show them, but I want to make sure they are not overlooked.

d. Improvise IV, V are the same. I think this is copy/paste error in the atlas.

e. Some of the icons are re-used between promotions and unitcombats. For example, suspensor travel. So there are some orange/red icons showing up as promotions.

f. My original homeworld promotion (mercenary.dds) had too much detail, I was trying to show continents on a planet viewed from space. But I think your new one has too little detail, it is just a blank circle. Can you add something that looks like a continent? Or maybe a different approach, like showing a heighliner.

The second screenshot shows the "hover help". I built this by using WB. I made a stack of 7 units and then added a few random promotions to each one. I did not cover all the promotions, just a random set. If you zoom the screenshot to 100%, you will see that the icons are pretty indistinct at this size. I realize it is hard, but the vanilla icons are simple enough that you can recognize them even at this size. I think this is important, to avoid eyestrain by the player when looking for the right unit in a stack. Even though your icons look great at full size, can you make them slightly less complex so they are still distinct in the hover help?

 

[Deliverator]

@Deon - that ship looks good. I'm thinking it can take over as the Suspensor Transport seeing as the existing one is very obviously a present day hovercraft.

On Suspensors, under the Holtzman effect on Wikepedia it says:
"Hovering devices called suspensors utilize the secondary (low-drain) phase of a Holtzman field generator to nullify gravity within certain limits prescribed by relative mass and energy consumption. Suspensors are used in chairs, tables, and structures that are too massive to be physically sound, among many other obvious uses."

Suspensor vehicles (other than the Baron's harness) are not really mentioned in the novels, so Suspensor Crafts are little bit of Dune Wars extension. The Suspensor Craft generates a Holtzman field which allows the vehicle to hover above the surface of the ground.

Ecaz - bright lights, modernist, trade-oriented, maybe think of Morganites from SMAC a little.

I agree the Ecazi should be trade focused, but I'm thinking something with a Venetian/Southern European twist and some plant motifs like vines, ivy, trees, etc. I think their architecture should reflect the fact that they come from a planet that is famous for its diversity of plant life.

The bird statue could be used as a cultural version of the Monument for the Atreides.

 

[Ahriman]

I suggest that we stick with the vanilla icons as much as possible. It is *much* less confusing for the human player if the city attack, combat, city defender, shock promotions all use the same icons as vanilla. It can take a long time to learn new icons.

Suspensor vehicles (other than the Baron's harness) are not really mentioned in the novels

There are several references to being unable to take suspensor vehicles across desert, because they would have the same effect as shields in terms of summoning worms.

And LetoII the worm uses a suspensor cart to get around.

but I'm thinking something with a Venetian/Southern European twist and some plant motifs like vines, ivy, trees, etc. I think their architecture should reflect the fact that they come from a planet that is famous for its diversity of plant life.

This sounds great.

 

[Deliverator]

On the icons, I think the light-to-dark-to-light gradient on the chevrons is perhaps too pronounced. It might be clearer at the smaller sizes if it is was a more consistent gold/yellow colour.

 

[Slvynn]

This is a big improvement over the previous. I think the color scheme is nice. Please take the following long list as *constructive* feedback, I think we are making great progress.

I have attached two screenshots. I made both of them as gif format so that jpg does not introduce any noise into the screenshot. The first one is the "edit unit" dialog in WB, which shows all the promos. This is a handy way to keep track of what is done, and what remains to be done. This shows a few things:

a. City Raider 3 is too "complex". The background is basically all solid.

b. Suspensor Disruptor is "abstract", it is hard to tell what it is. I am not sure what shape to suggest.

c. Shock I, II are the same. Desert Warfare I, II are the same. Once you add the icons, it will take a tiny xml change to show them, but I want to make sure they are not overlooked.

d. Improvise IV, V are the same. I think this is copy/paste error in the atlas.

e. Some of the icons are re-used between promotions and unitcombats. For example, suspensor travel. So there are some orange/red icons showing up as promotions.

f. My original homeworld promotion (mercenary.dds) had too much detail, I was trying to show continents on a planet viewed from space. But I think your new one has too little detail, it is just a blank circle. Can you add something that looks like a continent? Or maybe a different approach, like showing a heighliner.

The second screenshot shows the "hover help". I built this by using WB. I made a stack of 7 units and then added a few random promotions to each one. I did not cover all the promotions, just a random set. If you zoom the screenshot to 100%, you will see that the icons are pretty indistinct at this size. I realize it is hard, but the vanilla icons are simple enough that you can recognize them even at this size. I think this is important, to avoid eyestrain by the player when looking for the right unit in a stack. Even though your icons look great at full size, can you make them slightly less complex so they are still distinct in the hover help?

About Gamefont icon - i think its your local problem - i attaching screenshot - on my PC it working fine. We need to ffind why on your PC it shows different.

Re.a: will fix that
Re.B: will redo that
Re.c : i was forced to do so, i planned different promotions, but i dont know how i add promotion. Just separate file, another DDS atlas. Please tell me some instructions because i never created new ones ,i just used old DDS.
Re.d: thanks i will change that.
Re. e : tell me what to do - shoudl i create spearate icon for suspensor travel and you will add it in xml. Same as C.
Re.F. I like it personally this way it kinda simple but i'll add something.

Re-rest: The composition is what important, and distinction. Lets say for sure you will never distinguish all detail on most of vanilla promos. Tehy complicated at same level. You regonize already known composition. So it will take abit time to get used to compositions. Just try and make same with vanilla - you'll see that most of detail gone. What i see its all icons distinguishable. Things like improvisation 1-2-3 are less ,but they are same path i8mprovisations, and they always near, and when they near its easier to see difference between trippled stripe and single.
All we need is distinguishable compositions. and they are, most of them .
All those which are too complex - i will simplify them.

Re-Deliverator's post - i'll try it

Re- BUG font - i dunno where to look and how to deal wqit hit - any directions?

waiting for your reply bc i want to start working on it now as wel as create new promotions (atlas) . I need your instructions to make it right. Will just new file suffice? You will code it?

 

[davidlallen]

There are several references to being unable to take suspensor vehicles across desert, because they would have the same effect as shields in terms of summoning worms.

Well, that is certainly awkward considering suspensors are our main midgame transport vehicles. I recommend we ignore that.

 

[Deliverator]

Well, that is certainly awkward considering suspensors are our main midgame transport vehicles. I recommend we ignore that.

This came up when we originally discussed changing hovers to suspensors. We have to fudge things sometimes. If we were being true to the novel then when a Lasgun Soldier attacks a city with a Force Shield there should be a nuclear scale explosion...

On icons, I think everything is easier using individual files rather than an Atlas. I don't see any advantage in having everything in the one Atlas file. Since it will work having each icon in a separate file and it is simpler, I'd recommend always doing it that way. All you have to do is edit CIV4PromotionInfos so that each Promotion points to its icon in the Button tag. Even the XML looks simpler.

 

[davidlallen]

Re.c : i was forced to do so, i planned different promotions, but i dont know how i add promotion. Just separate file, another DDS atlas. Please tell me some instructions because i never created new ones ,i just used old DDS.

In the atlas file, we number the positions x,y starting at the upper left. For example, in dunepromoatlas1, the old stillsuit icon is at 7,1. The positions 2,6 and below are unused. So first, put the new icon into an unused position such as 2,6. Second, you can make a small xml change. Edit the file assets/xml/units/civ4promotioninfos.xml, and find one of the entries like SHOCK2. Search below that to find:

<Button>,Art/Interface/Buttons/Promotions/Woodsman1.dds,Art/Interface/Buttons/dunepromoatlas0.dds,4,5</Button>

I am not sure why they did it like this, it is a little confusing. But the part after the comma is what you want. You see it refers to promoatlas0 position 4,5. Change it to promoatlas1 position 2,6.

Now when you go into World Builder, you should see the new icon. When you get done, you can put both the new xml file and the new atlas file into your zipfile and upload it. I will merge your xml file into the release.

EDIT: or as deliverator commented at the same time, you can change the line to something like:
<Button>art/interface/buttons/promotions/mynewfile.dds</Button>
Either way is OK.

 

[Slvynn]

Ok another question - which is best program to edit xml - i never did that too i am noob modder
Ok i will start creating thingies. I think i'll prefer separate file method.

 

[Deon]

Windows notepad is good, also if you want some customizable interface and features use notepad++.

And notice that shock I and shock II have the same icons.

 

[davidlallen]

Ok another question - which is best program to edit xml - i never did that too i am noob modder
Ok i will start creating thingies. I think i'll prefer separate file method.

Notepad is fine. Editing xml is easy compared to python or other files. As long as you only change the filename string, it is hard to make any mistakes. Still, just in case, it is a good idea to make a copy of the original file before you make any changes.

 

[Deliverator]

Ok another question - which is best program to edit xml - i never did that too i am noob modder

I use Notepad++. It's the best freeware one I've found and I've tried a few. Get the XML Tools plugin for it and it will confirm that you haven't broken the XML when you save the file. It also remembers which files you had open when you close it which is quite useful.

 

[Slvynn]

thats because there is code for 1 only. Its coded that way atm. Will dig into it.

I use Notepad++. It's the best freeware one I've found and I've tried a few. Get the XML Tools plugin for it and it will confirm that you haven't broken the XML when you save the file. It also remembers which files you had open when you close it which is quite useful.

thanks alot