Early Buildings

[Afforess]

And there I thought it was heresy.

Exactly.

This is slightly OT, but I posted this a few weeks ago on the LoR Forums when Phungus was having a tantrum over why there was so few modmod's for LoR...

Another possible reason you have issues with a silent forum is your general philosophy on LoR. You want it to be a "commercially viable" expansion. While that's very laudable (and more realistic, RoM does have game-breaking bugs in V 2.71), it stifles creation. RoM's philosophy has always been "More, More, More*" and so it gets tons of modmoder's who sit around, thinking up new ideas. I'm not saying that you need to change your focus, just telling you why things are they way they are.


*As long as it's balanced out

It emphasizes why RoM's modmod's have been very successful. We have a fundamentally different philosophy.

 

[NBAfan]

I think with all the buildings we have now with all the modmods are enough.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Lies, despicable lies...

Take it back.

If there was too much already, I should just pack up and leave now.

Although, I think the buildings HydromacerX suggested are a bit strange. How about a watchmaker, or something? A giant sundial doesn't seem realistic.

Watchmaker? We are not talking bout mechanical clocks, we are talking about sundials, water clocks and hourglasses.

Here how about this instead ...

Timekeeper
Cost: ?
Production: +1
Commerce: +1
Happiness: +1

Requires: Mysticism (Sundial)

Obsolete: Clockworks

Special Abilities

• +1 , +1 , +1 with Pottery (Clepsydra)
• +1 , +1 , +1 with Glassmaking (Hourglass)

I think with all the buildings we have now with all the modmods are enough.

Are you kidding? This mod is still missing major parts of human history! I mean look at the Sports mod! Sports pretty much was neglected except for Athletics, Olympic Games and the Zero G Arena. Now we not only have new buildings for it but new techs too! It seems like every time i watch the History Channel or Discovery Channel I think, "hey now that would be cool if RoM had something like that".

 

[os79]

Plus, if you are worried about buildings invading your building of units time; then I would say it is a mistaken strategy.

What I do is:
Build all production buildings as fast as I can WITHOUT incurring unhealthiness and unhappiness. Solve unhealthiness and unhappiness as time goes by. After prodcution buildings are out of the way to my best possible limit, I check the gold rate. If itis about 6 or high plus per turn, I go ahead and build units for either new city or an army. However, if my money is under 6 per turn, I continue on to Research, Esponiage, Gold, Maintenance, and Culture. Then whatever other buildings. At the whole time, I check that I can't build more production building and my gold is not high enough before I continue building other buildings. That applies to my "production of units" cities only. The rest of my cities I just ignore units aspect and follow the above-mentioned strategy. Only when it stagnates NOT due to my clicking "Stop Growth" will I concentrate on building all available food buildings.

That is my strategy of using buildings. Long story short: you are not required to build all buildings that modmodders throw at you. You just need to have a specific strategy of building. Then you will be so SO SO thankful that you were thrown these buildings! Because that strategy will open up the reasons why these new buildings are necessary instead of being redundant!

and don't forget the powerful tool of culture in holding on to new captured cities, if you manage to hold off enemy's taking back attack plans.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

The problem is that the build list in the city screen keeps going back to the first row of buildings when I want to queue 5 which are on the fourth row

 

[Afforess]

The problem is that the build list in the city screen keeps going back to the first row of buildings when I want to queue 5 which are on the fourth row

Trouble is, the way the game handles that is in the .exe and Firaxis never gave us that code...

 

[Hydromancerx]

Build all production buildings as fast as I can WITHOUT incurring unhealthiness and unhappiness.

Yes this is very true. For me its a small culture boost (like a monument) to expand the borders around the city, then some basic protection (like a wall), then production (like a forge) and then food (like a granary). After that its a balancing act. If its a border city then things like protection, culture and even espionage (to fight spies). But if its in the middle of my empire its production, then food then depending upon the economy science or gold. The most productive cities becomes my centers for either military or wonders (or both such as the Moai Easter island heads). I also try to name the cities I plan to make a type of wonder in a related name. Such as "Spirit" for my great prophet city. This helps me remember to build that type of wonder there. And once they get full I pick another city.

Only when it stagnates NOT due to my clicking "Stop Growth" will I concentrate on building all available food buildings.

I have never had to "stop growth" or stop producing things. There is always something to build as well. And even if I did reach a point where I either built all the buildings, I could always start producing trade caravans to send to other slower producing cities in order to help them catch up to being founded later.

 

[generalstaff]

Timekeeper
Cost: ?
Production: +1
Commerce: +1
Happiness: +1

Requires: Mysticism (Sundial)

Obsolete: Clockworks

Special Abilities

• +1 , +1 , +1 with Pottery (Clepsydra)
• +1 , +1 , +1 with Glassmaking (Hourglass)

Timekeeper is a good compromise for history and playability. I will added the production boost with pottery. The update should be ready in about a week (would be sooner, but I need time to find pedia entries and button pics).

 

[Hydromancerx]

Timekeeper is a good compromise for history and playability. I will added the production boost with pottery. The update should be ready in about a week (would be sooner, but I need time to find pedia entries and button pics).

Are you adding the boost with "Glass Making" too to represent the discovery of the Hourglass?

 

[DocBuchanan]

Ok so... read through the thread and realized what the problem is but still don't know how to fix it.

I installed the early buildings pack according to instructions. It's in the modules folder under Custom_buildings.

I installed the GeneralStaff Building pack in the same way.

None of your buildings are showing up in the game for me, dude. I'm running 3.19 RoM 2.8.

Any hints? Focus on the mistakes idiots usually make that cause this problem... because that's me when it comes to this sort of thing.

 

[Afforess]

Ok so... read through the thread and realized what the problem is but still don't know how to fix it.

I installed the early buildings pack according to instructions. It's in the modules folder under Custom_buildings.

I installed the GeneralStaff Building pack in the same way.

None of your buildings are showing up in the game for me, dude. I'm running 3.19 RoM 2.8.

Any hints? Focus on the mistakes idiots usually make that cause this problem... because that's me when it comes to this sort of thing.

You need to add the correct MLF entry. See the sticky on this forum for a tutorial.

 

[generalstaff]

Are you adding the boost with "Glass Making" too to represent the discovery of the Hourglass?

I am using the "Glassware" resource; it is doable that way. Same goes for "Pottery." I am also changing the Tech needed to Mathematics since I find that tech to come up pretty early, not to mention that Stonehenge is a special case of time keeping.

 

[Hydromancerx]

I am using the "Glassware" resource; it is doable that way. Same goes for "Pottery." I am also changing the Tech needed to Mathematics since I find that tech to come up pretty early, not to mention that Stonehenge is a special case of time keeping.

That seems fair to give the boost with pottery and glassware resources.

But moving it to mathematics seems much too late. Look at what Dancing Hoskuld said...

Why would sundial be so late in the tech tree? There are existing examples from Egypt and India that date to the time of the Pyramids.

 

[generalstaff]

But moving it to mathematics seems much too late.

According to Wikipedia (has issues, I know, using it as a benchmark) the Pyramids are from the 23rd Century BC, with many early clocks being dated to 2000BC. The Pyramids in game are built around that time, but having timekeeping being able to be built at mysticism would have the building being built in the 3000s, and possibly, 4000s, which is too early. Looking at the tech tree, the right historical time for it to be available is with Writing and Monotheism; Sculpture is around that same time period and requires Mysticism due to its requirement of Polytheism, maybe Sculpture would be the right tech with possibly a secondary requirement of the Writing tech.

 

[Hydromancerx]

According to Wikipedia (has issues, I know, using it as a benchmark) the Pyramids are from the 23rd Century BC, with many early clocks being dated to 2000BC. The Pyramids in game are built around that time, but having timekeeping being able to be built at mysticism would have the building being built in the 3000s, and possibly, 4000s, which is too early. Looking at the tech tree, the right historical time for it to be available is with Writing and Monotheism; Sculpture is around that same time period and requires Mysticism due to its requirement of Polytheism, maybe Sculpture would be the right tech with possibly a secondary requirement of the Writing tech.

Hmm, that seems reasonable to have sculpture + writing. However if we are going to get technical on time keeping devices there was a rudimentary "counting device" found in Border Cave, South Africa that dates to 37,000 years ago. It was made from a baboon fibula and had slashing marks on the side. Note that bushmen of southwestern Africa still use a similar tool called a "Calendar Stick", but they use wood, not bones.

The source of this info was from the "Smithsonian Timeliness of the Ancient World" book I have.

Here is more info on "Tally Bones"

In short mathematics for time keeping is as old as 35,000 BC. Long before Stonehenge (2,500 BC) and the Pyramids (2,300 BC).

 

[generalstaff]

Hmm, that seems reasonable to have sculpture + writing. However if we are going to get technical on time keeping devices there was a rudimentary "counting device" found in Border Cave, South Africa that dates to 37,000 years ago. It was made from a baboon fibula and had slashing marks on the side. Note that bushmen of southwestern Africa still use a similar tool called a "Calendar Stick", but they use wood, not bones.

The source of this info was from the "Smithsonian Timeliness of the Ancient World" book I have.

Here is more info on "Tally Bones"

In short mathematics for time keeping is as old as 35,000 BC. Long before Stonehenge (2,500 BC) and the Pyramids (2,300 BC).

I think the tech Mathematics represents the discovery of zero. The timing fits with it. Of course when it comes to analyzing techs, I think the one that makes the least sense is Usury.

Anyways, the timkeepers will be sculpture+writing. That should put it in the right time for the starting civs, if not, it means there is an issue with game play on Snail games in general.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I thought the building of Stonehenge had been pushed back almost 2,000 years and that other discoveries had shown it to be modern compared to others buildings of its type.

And then there is the Antikythera object, a mechanical calendar, which seems to be one of many and available in ancient Rome and Greece. It seems to have told the phases of the moon, position of the five planets and when the next Olympics would be.

 

[generalstaff]

Version 1.91 released.

Added: Fish Traps, Timekeeper's Workshop, and Town Watch.
Cheapened a number of buildings for balance.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Version 1.91 released.

Added: Fish Traps, Timekeeper's Workshop, and Town Watch.
Cheapened a number of buildings for balance.

Yay!

 

[Hydromancerx]

Version 1.91 released.

Added: Fish Traps, Timekeeper's Workshop, and Town Watch.
Cheapened a number of buildings for balance.

I like the retro "Age of Empire 2" icons for the Fish Traps and Town Watch. They are also nice buildings. It made me want to look through the old tech trees of not ony AOE2 but the original AEO1. So here are some ideas taken from them ...

Walls

Palisade Wall (Req None) - Can upgrade to Stone Wall

Stone Wall (New Name for Wall) - Can Upgrade to Fortified Wall

Fortified Wall (New Name for High Wall) - Can Upgrade to

------

Towers

Outpost (Req None [Already In Mod]) - Can Upgrade to Watch Tower

Watch Tower (Req Masonry) - Can Upgrade to Guard Tower

Guard Tower (Req Siege Warfare) - Can Upgrade to Keep Tower

Keep Tower (Req Engineering) - Can Upgrade to Bombard Tower

Bombard Tower (Req Gunpowder)

------

Other Defenses

Murder Holes

Requires: Engineering [Requires City Gatehouse]

Obsolete: Explosives

Special Abilities

• +1 Defense with Stone (Boulders)
• +1 Defense with Lead (Molten Lead)
• +1 Defense with Oil (Boiling Oil)

------

Traps

Pit Traps (Req Mining) - Upgrades to Spike Traps

Spike Traps (Req Mathematics) - Upgrades to Mechanical Traps

Mechanical Traps (Req Machinery) - Upgrades to Timed Traps

Timed Traps (Req Clockworks) - Upgrades to Landmines

Landmines (Req Explosives)

------

Building Tools

Wheelwright's Workshop
Cost: ?
Production: +1
Commerce: +1

Requires: The Wheel (Wheelbarrow)

Obsolete: Motorized Transpiration

Special Abilities

• +1 , +1 with Trade (Hand Cart)
• +1 , +1 with Chariotry (Wagon)

Treadmill Crane
Cost: ?
Production: +2

Requires: Machinery

Obsolete: Motorized Transpiration

Special Abilities

• +1 with Stone
• +1 with Marble

------

As you can see i added to it a bit.