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Earth 18 with Egypt - It has been a long while since I played and posted here!

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Harv, Jan 27, 2020.

  1. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

    Dec 16, 2008
    Is there a best time to trigger the golden age? Right now seems not best, because I did a few whips and am not using all the land.

    I can use the War Chariots to go looking for the stack. Russia looks like Swords versus Axes.

    Rome and Germany have been at war for a while. I will have to check what is going on in China.

    I never thought of having a Medic Warrior.
  2. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

    Feb 12, 2006
    Whilst you are at war I would skip golden age. Your cities ain't that great for specialists. You don't have civil service yet. Destroy Russia first. Then consider what to do next. I really doubt Russia will have a big stack. Empire too big for that. So units spread out.
  3. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

    Dec 16, 2008
    Turns 196 to 212 - The Russians Counter-Attack at Stalingrad

    Isn't this where so much of the fighting will take place..... a little over 1400 years later?

    Also, never start a land war in Asia.

    Turn 197 - We enter the so-called Middle Ages. We finished research on Music and spawned a Great Artist who is just chilling in Tebas right now.

    Turn 200 - We opened borders with China. It looks like we can reach their cities. I have not noticed where there are trade routes opened, but time will tell. Meanwhile, it looks like we do top the power list. Frederick is second, and Catherine is third. Qin the Wonder Hog, is fourth.

    Turn 201 - We finally declared war on Russia! It was a long time coming. It was taking a while for the Super-Medic Warrior to make it to Sparta and start marching. We started by sending our Amphibious War Chariot across the Volga River to wipe out an Axeman. They hung around long enough to take a look at the defenders at Yekaterinburg, then back across the Volga. We had a couple more War Chariots in that area - just to see if the Russians were going to march that direction on Knossos.

    Spoiler :


    415 AD - Wasn't this close to the time the Huns showed up? Some similar time, maybe a few hundred years later, there would be some relationship between horse people and farm people to form the Slavs and the Cossacks. Right now, we are thundering over the desert in War Chariots. Hmm, my atlas does say that area is a mid-latitude desert - so the Slavic people are further west.

    Our main stack was in Sparta, about where we can find present day Bulgaria. We decided it was best to march on Novgorod and unite the main stack with the troops moving up through the Caucasus Mountains. This might make a counterattack through the Caucasus Mountains more difficult, but much easier to go through Sparta at Athens, both of which will be wide-open.

    In other news, somebody founded Buddhism. I think that is 5/7 World Religions so far. I think that leaves Philosophy and Divine Right.

    Turn 202 - 430 AD - We finished research on Metal Casting. There were a couple of minor events. We got money changers in Thebes, for a bonus +1 gold for the Marketplace. Somewhere in Germany, they got a Jade Trade going.

    Turn 203 - 445 AD - There was a slave revolt in Rostov. Something interesting about Spiritual is we can switch in and out of Slavery. Ideally, we are only spending 5 turns. So maybe we save some money and reduce the risk. At this point, a slave revolt is not going to be crippling.

    Turn 204 - 460 AD - The Siege of Novgorod


    We used the stack of catapults to blow down the city defenses. They defenders were easy marks for our highly trained and experienced Swordsmen. We opened with a CR3 Swordsman with 10 Experiene, of course. That way, if we lose, then we don't lose too much experience. Eventually they will get to 17 XP for another level.

    Espada 4 vs Archer at 70.0% - Victory, 2.9/6 hp remaining, 13 XP
    Sword 1M vs Sword at 75.1% - Victory, 5.0/6 hp remaining, 14 XP
    Zuk-Thoth vs Archer at 98.7% - Victory, 4.3/6 hp remaining, 49 XP
    Espada 2 vs Spear at 98.8% - Victory, 4.3/6 hp remaining, 18 XP
    Espada 3 vs Spear at 88.7% - Victory, 6/6 hp remaining, 10 XP
    Sword 1P vs Spear at 99.0% - Victory, 6/6 hp remaining, 10 XP

    We smashed through the defenses of Novgorod with no losses. It will take a couple of turns to heal up and keep marching. We also got to march in some of the troops approaching from the east.


    In other news, China and Mongolia have gone to war. Maybe that will keep them busy for a while.

    Turn 207 - 505 AD - Continuing on with the pointless builds (I think the issue is I lose focus on the main idea, with is to build more units and continue a war, instead of buildings and wonders that gain very little.) we built the Parthenon in Persepolis and the Moai Statues in Athens.


    We are now getting a bonus of 50% great people points generated, but running no Specialists. I would have been much better off capturing this Wonder. There are better ways to hog Wonders.

    The Moai Statues in Athens - I figured we had time to build them and Athens has two Fish Tiles and about twelve more Coastal Tiles. It is basically an island. I thought this was one of the best spots. My rating: 14/20.

    We also got a cache of lost and rare writings in Mecca, adding 138 beakers towards Machinery. This is more than half a turn of progress in a single event! There was an option to spend 138 gp to get +1 Beaker from the Library of Mecca, but I really can't justify over 100 Turns for a payoff. Maybe if we were researching something very cheap. I would say we have been doing very well with events so far! We got, from what I remember:

    Lost grain in the Granary of Thebes - It cost 20 gp to replace, not a big deal.
    Islamic Wedding with Greece - I spent 15 gp to get a bonus happy point in my main cities for 30 Turns. 15 gp is tiny. 30 turns of Happy is huge.
    ......I think there were a few more......
    Money Changers - 1 gold from the Market Place in Thebes
    Rare Scrolls - 138 free Beakers

    Turn 208 - 520 AD - We advanced our troops to Yekaterinburg and took this as an opportunity to destroy the Iron mine.


    I do not know if this is Russia's only source of Iron, but it was worth a try. No Iron means they are building Archers and Chariots and really have no answer to Swords and Phants. It also looks like they have researched Construction and can build Catapults. Hopefully they do not know how to use them well.

    Meanwhile, the Russians counter-attacked Novgorod with a single Chariot against a Swordsman in a bid to recapture, but that did not happen. That was interesting, because I remember seeing about 4 Chariots in Moscow.

    Turn 209 - 535 AD - The Battle of Stalingrad

    This is pretty close to where the Russians counter-attacked at Stalingrad, isn't it? Also, are we doing this war wrong? We are indirectly allied with the Italians who are fighting the French - and over here, we are attacking the Russians, wiping out ridiculous odds. The Italians are also fighting the Germans, so that's different. England appears to be sitting neutral. That's different. The Mongolians are attacking the Chinese and I have no idea what the Japanese are doing. The world is at war!

    Meanwhile, the Russians showed up with what looks like their stack. It looks like Catalina went heavy on City Raider, which is not going to do them a world of good right now - Or at least defending a city against that stack would be rough and bloody.


    This stack seemed big enough to justify promoting one Catapult to Barrage. We would then be dealing with a stack of weakened units.

    Catapult 1 vs Sword at 26.7%...... and we lived with 1.4/5 hp remaining.
    Catapult 2 vs Sword at 32.3%...... and we lost, but the Sword has 1.6/6 hp remaining
    That's it for the Catapults. Looking back, it was about even odds we get to keep one Catapult and we came up lucky, again. Sometimes, I think the RNG is bent on screwing people over who do not have a contingency plan for losing a battle. So just like Axis and Allies, good things happen when you roll lots of dice. It's time to bring in the Elephants.
    Elephant 1 vs Sword at 77.1% - Victory with 5.1 / 8 hp remaining and 6 XP
    Elephant 3 vs Sword at 89.5% - Victory with 3.9 / 8 hp remaining and 5 XP
    Now the War Chariots see action and get to be relevant one more time! The Spears are in the city and not in the Stack!
    Carro 1 vs Catapult at 90.1% - Victory with 2.6 / 5 hp remaining and 29 XP - Carro 1 just keeps winning!
    Carro 8 vs Chariot at 96.4% - Victory with 1.3 / 5 hp remaining and 14 XP
    Carro 4 vs Chariot at 96.4% - Victory with 0.5 / 5 hp remaining and 13 XP - This is every bit as good as surviving!
    Carro 10 vs Chariot at 97.4% - Victory with 1.8 / 5 hp remaining and 14 XP
    Carro 3 vs Axe at 99.4% - Victory with 2.9 / 5 hp remaining and 11 XP
    Hacha 2 vs Sword at 99.9% - Victory with 2.0 / 5 hp remaining and 4 XP
    Sword 11 vs Sword at 99.9% - Victory with 6 / 6 hp remaining and 4 XP

    We still have a stack left over to attack the city. The main defender appears to be an Archer with CG3. See that +125% from city?

    Never tell me the odds.
    -Han Solo

    Espada 3 vs Archer at 25.1% - Defeat, but we reduced them to 1.4 / 3 hp and they will die later.
    Sword 1P vs Sword at 75.1% -Victory with 4.0 / 6 hp remaining and 13 XP
    Zuk-Thoth vs Sword at 96.8% - Victory with 4.2 / 6 hp remaining and 63 XP
    Sword 1M vs Archer at 96.9% - Victory with 3.8 / 6 hp remaining and 16 XP
    Espada 4 vs Spear at 98.0% - Victory with 5.6 / 6 hp remaining and 15 XP
    Espada 2 vs Spear at 99.6% - Victory with 5.2 / 6 hp remaining and 19 XP

    There is is. We captured the great city of Yekaterinburg and destroyed a stack of Russian soldiers. I count 14 kills in this turn, plus another 6 in Novgorod, and another cheap kill on a Chariot. She also charged Novgorod with a single Chariot just before we met the stack at Y. So far, this war has cost us one Catapult and 1 Sword. I like this kill ratio! We shall see how much time the loss of one Catapult costs us. If we wipe out Moscow and head west to St. Petersburg, then we can catch up with a replacement.

    Turn 210 - 550 AD

    There was still some fighting at Yekaterinburg.
    Elephant 2 defeated the Axe approaching from east of the city.
    Swords 10 and 11 attacked the Chariots that showed up to the Northwest of the city.
    Then they defeated a counter-attack from an Axe. Go figure. The combination of Hills and River gave the Swords a small edge and the Russians holed up in Moscow.

    Turn 212 - 580 AD - Continuing with the pointless builds, we built the Great Library in Thebes.


    We are healing up and marching to Moscow.

    To be continued.....

    Attached Files:

    earthy likes this.
  4. earthy

    earthy Warlord

    Aug 31, 2019
    From my experiences on earth18 I would caution against getting bogged down in Russia for too long. A few of her cities are nice, but Rome, Spain, and France are downright juicy 1 city powerhouses ripe for the plucking. Personally I think Catherine is better off being vassaled after you take her best cities, so you can then outsource some of your defense on the eastern front.
  5. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

    Dec 16, 2008
    Turns 212 to 220 - The fall of Moscow

    When I started, it was 11 Cities, total, so I can understand a war just taking a long while. I think we are about 16 Turns into this war. We shall see.

    I promise not to keep those desert cities!

    Elephantine was a horrible city? Gaul is a horrible city? Wait until we see what the Russians built in the desert!

    It looks like everybody in the West hates China. I don't know why. China and India seem to be my best friends right now - and so far I can leave an open front against them.

    Turn 214 - 610 AD - The Assault of Moscow

    Spoiler :


    I really did not want to take my chances against a stack of 5 Catapults, so we had to work quickly.

    Zuk-Thoth was up first. He defeated a Sword at 96.0%.
    Espada 2 defeated an Archer at 98.7%.
    Sword 1M defeated an Archer at 98.1%.
    Espada 4 defeated a Sword at 96.1%.
    Sword 1P defeated an Archer at 99.0%.
    Sword 2 defeated a Spear at 98.8%.

    We took a quick break from attacking Moscow.
    Carro 1 defeated a Chariot at 96.5%, just northeast of Moscow.
    Then back at it, for how to approach the rest of it......
    Catapult 6 attacked a Catapult and stack and managed to retreat at 36.7% probability. We have been lucky!

    Elephant 1 defeated a Spear at 76.9%.
    Carro 8 defeated a Catapult at 72.1%.
    Carro 4 was destroyed by a catapult at 72.1%

    Carro 10 defeated a Catapult at 73.0%.

    Now, we are crossing the river. There was not much choice. It did not seem to matter any more at this point.
    Sword 3 defeated a Chariot at 96.0%.
    Sword 7 defeated a Chariot at 96.0%.
    Sword 4 defeated a Catapult at 99.9%.
    Sword 5 defeated a Catapult at 99.9%.

    Finally, Moscow fell.

    I count 14 more dead Russian units.

    Turn 215 - 625 AD - A German spy destroyed the Wheat Farm by Corinth. I have not bothered to build any spies and was not paying attention to the Germans. It looks like it cost them 92 EP and the farm is very easily recovered, after a few Worker turns or so.

    Turn 216 - 640 AD - Marching west towards St. Petersburg, we destroyed another two Catapults with our Elephants and we spawned our third Great General. I forgot to rename him.


    Fransisco Phah-Hotep?

    I did not really have a plan, so settled him in Knossos, where I decided to build the Heroic Epic. It looked like there were lots of hammers to be found there.

    Turn 217 - 655 AD - We finished researching Engineering. Now our troops are moving 3 spaces down the roads! We can also build Pikemen, but I don't see much of a use for them against Chariots. Maybe I will change my mind if they are building Knights in Western Europe. They got to Feudalism before we did and I did not check to see if they got to Machinery. They seem to be teching pretty quickly through the Middle Ages.

    Add the Colossus to the list of pointless builds.


    I have trouble focusing on the current task.

    Turn 218 - 670 AD - The Attack of St. Petersburg

    Compared to the big stacks we have seen before, St. Petersburg was lightly defended.


    Sword 1M defeated a Swordsman at 88.5%.
    Sword 4 defeated an Archer at 72.7%.
    Sword 11 defeated a Spearman at 96.9%.
    Sword 10 defeated a Spearman at 99.0%.

    And that's it! We captured St. Petersburg! That's 4/11 of their cities!

    Turn 219 - 685 AD - We discovered silver near Corinth!


    The Shwedagon Paya also got built and I forgot the check where and I forget what it does. We are busy destroying Russian units, of course!

    So it's Turn 220, or 700 AD and I believe the Russians have 7 cities left. I believe two of them might be decent and the rest are probably trash. I don't see them able to build more big stacks like that. If they do, then well, our stacks have more experience. Looking around, I saw that they actually secured another source of Iron, so they will continue building metal units - and maybe more Catapults.

    Attached Files:

    earthy likes this.
  6. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

    Feb 12, 2006
    Looks like Russian threat is gone.Those 2 Russian cities are eating up your culture. Dont's be afraid to attack on 2 fronts. I would of taken Moscow first.

    Germans and China now have longbow. You do seem to be spamming buildings here.

    With phants and catapults I still think you can take on Germans. Germans have taken a vassal which is somewhat annoying. With so many 1 city AI here this was bound to happen sooner or later.

    I would be building more units. This is essentially a war game now. Otherwise plan for cuirs or gunpowder units. Once the AI get castles this will grind your attacks to a halt unless you spam 10-20 trebs.
  7. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

    Dec 16, 2008
    Turns 220 to Turn 240 - Russian Winter

    This was a meat grinder of a round.

    Turn 220 - 700 AD - We started with a bit of wheeling and dealing with Mansa Musa.

    Spoiler :


    I figured there was not much harm in this, except he is likely to turn around and sell it to our European rivals and keep the tech race going strong. We already have the Great Library and we already won the race to Music. Theology gives us religious zealot soldiers.

    Turn 221 - Taoism has been founded. I think that's 6/7 of the world religions out. Elsewhere in the world, the USA has been destroyed. We are now Earth 14.


    We could have bought our way through Feudalism, but I did not want too much tech moving west.

    Turn 222 - 730 AD - We finally launch our attack on Rostov.


    Elephant 2 vs Archer at 87.5% and we lose. The Archer is left with 0.1/3.
    Elephant 3 vs Sword at 78.3% - Victory and we have a unit with 10 XP.
    Sword 1 vs Axe at 77.7% and we lose. The axe is left with 3.9/5.
    Zuk-Thoth vs Axe at 97.4% - Victory
    Espada 2 vs Sword at 96.8% - Victory
    Espada 4 vs Sword at 98.7% - Victory
    Sword 7 vs Catapult at 98.8% - Victory
    Elephant 1 vs Archer at 99.9% - Victory and we captured Rostov and 126 gp.
    Elephant 4 went on to take out that Catapult and Elephant 5 captured our first Russian Worker.

    So that battle cost us an Elephant and a Swordsman. I don't know if it is better to start with a couple of Catapult blasts or not. It is sure to cost one Catapult. In this case, it might have saved our other two units. It was not a big deal at this point, because we had substantially more troops.

    Turn 223 - 745 AD - We got to Feudalism. We are cracking into the Middle Ages. We can run Serfdom as an alternative to Slavery and land improvements done faster in the 10 turns we are not running Slavery.

    In other news, Isabel also became a vassal to Frederick. Rome has a big war on their hands and the time of their Unique Unit is almost past.

    Turn 225 - 775 AD - We are losing our focus on the eastern front. We sent some troops north. We sent some troops east. We sent some troops northeast. Our stack is not big enough for three groups and it will become apparent soon enough. We should have ignored the junk cities for now and focused on Yaroslavl. Catherine has been whipping so much, these cities don't even look big or important!

    The destruction of Smolensk


    We had two Catapults to knock down defenses a bit.
    Elephant 4 beat an Archer at 86.8%.
    Elephant 1 beat the other Archer at 94.2%.
    Sword 1 defeated an Axe at 70.8% and now has 17 XP for the next level.
    We captured Smolensk and 72 gp, then burned it to the ground.

    Is there any potential for this city? It looks like junk.

    Turn 226 - 790 AD - We are running Hereditary Rule / Vassalage / Serfdom / and Theocracy. We are starting to resemble the Middle Ages!

    Turn 228 - 820 AD - We finished researching Civil Service. We can now build Maces.

    The game crashed, honest. The Battle of Yaroslavl was where I was finally seeing the value of some early Catapult strikes and having plenty of Catapults in the stack. Yaroslavl had 7 Defenders.


    This Catapult actually survived at 26.9%.
    Catapult 9 was not so lucky at 56.1%, but the damage is done.
    The Russians spawned a Great General in Yakutsk.
    Catapult 10 had a 91.3% shot, so I took it and survived.
    The seven defenders went down pretty easily after that. Everything was over 99% probability.
    However, we did have a pretty small stack for attacking a stack of 7.

    Further north, Vladivostok had 5 defenders. The catapults were not so lucky here. We lost 3, at 33.6%, 53.7%, and 90.3%. However, they left easy battles for the troops and we marched in and razed the city.


    Well, it had a Copper mine.

    Elsewhere in the world, France was able to get out of the war with the Romans through a heroic gesture.

    Turn 229 - 835 AD

    We did more dealing with Mansa Musa.


    Hindsight says I should not have done this deal. Machinery is a pretty critical technology and I have no use for Philosophy right now and am more interested in gaining an advantage the Machinery line gives me. Engineering comes to mind.

    Turn 230 - 850 AD

    Here was another junk Russian city we burned. It still had four defenders. I think this leaves two Russian cities in the desert.

    Turn 231 - 860 AD - The Great Merchant Leif Erikson was spawned in Thebes. I decided to settle him in Mecca with the other two Great Profits. I have no idea if this is the best use, or going for the trade mission, or bulbing a technology.

    Turn 234 - 890 AD - Catherine got to Feudalism while we were marching our troops and upgraded to Longbows!

    Turn 235 - 900 AD - We researched the Compass, for what it is worth. I was thinking some extra health in our coastal cities which are running against the limit.

    We captured and razed Yakutsk. We also met Toku of the Japanese.

    Meanwhile in Christian world, the Apostolic Palace has been built and Frederick controls the Pope. I will have to hurry up and destroy Russia.

    ..... ..... ......

    Turn 238 - 930 AD - We finally got the job done. We capture and burn Krasnoyarsk and the Russian Empire is destroyed.


    Rest in peace, Cathy. You fought well.

    Attached Files:

  8. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

    Feb 12, 2006
    I would not be offering the AI gold for techs. This is poor play. Better to spend beakers on the tech then trade for it.

    China looks to be friendly here.

    Germany is next target. They are a minor risk with AP.

    Serfdom civic? Slavery is such a strong civic? Why are you not in that. The basis of war is to toss away 1-2 catapults and trebs in reality you may save 1-2 units. Unless your melee unit has 80-90% odds already. By slow building units your attack dies down quite a bit and you don't have a constant stack of reinforcements for front line. Which is true of your game.

    Stop having workers improve plains tiles when you have many grassland river tiles unimproved in your newly captured land. I would cancel all workers building roads/working plains tiles. Apart from the 2-3 roads to speed up your stack headsng back to German land.

    I would focus on trebs. You have plenty of melee and mounted units. If anything you want 2mp units in cities far off front line. Or to switch to wealth to help science along.

    Looks like Aztecs will have a big empire in Americas. Albeit they will be pretty backwards. Germans are terrible at warfare. Why is Rome still there?
  9. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

    Dec 16, 2008
    Eight turns later. I will try to post some after-action tomorrow. It took me a little long to play. :p

    Slavery? Given how much higher the happy cap is than the healthy cap, I could have run multiple whips. Since we were spiritual, I thought it would be best to run five turns of slavery and ten turns of something else. So I went five turns of bureaucracy/ slavery/ organized religion, then switched back to vassalage/ serfdom/ theocracy.

    I don’t think the bureaucracy was worth it, but don’t think it cost too much. (The extra commerce is approximately equal to the bonus free units and Thebes is not producing many hammers.)

    It took all eight turns to march over to Sparta and heal up my general, who is probably not needed. The Germans have Machinery, but not Civil Service or Engineering. So there is not much of an answer to knights. Most likely we are catching them completely by surprise, never mind they can see a huge hiding in Sparta.

    Isabel has renounced Fred, so will not be involved. That helps the Europe front a bit. In Africa, the question is how many War Elephants and Catapults MM can produce. I found a couple of units to promote to Pikemen.
  10. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

    Feb 12, 2006
    I don't think you need Serfdom. Elephantine is running 6 farmed plains tiles. Net gain of 6H and 6 commerce. However it's maintenance per turn is now 9.5G a turn. I would not be running any of those plains tiles you have farmed. Waste of 30 or so worker turns. Switch to coast and other higher commerce tiles.

    You have 20 workers already and you know a lot of the land on this map is poor.

    Slavery is a must! Otherwise I would be running caste. Then you can be running 4-5 scientists in a city. You can always swap each 5 turns. It's important to replace lost cities. This is mainly a war game now to mop up all the AI here on your land mass.

    You can move your capital. That plains near your capital probably should of been cottaged as it's on a river.

    I agree on Knights. Vassalage is probably not that bad here. Especially with Theocracy. I would use trebs to reduce cultural defences then knights and other stronger units to mop up. Wasting a few dated melee units now is not a big loss? 1-2 trbs to weaken defences helps too. If you can get them cr2/3 that is great. Albeit need to be built closer to front line. 1-2 settled GG in a strong production city can produce some really strong units. Upgrade WC to knights where they are C3 or better?
  11. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

    Dec 16, 2008
    You're probably right about Serfdom. Russia might almost be ready to be cottaged up. Caste System also has a bonus to Workshops, which I have none. Maybe I run farms and workshops in Russia for a while, since I got rid of all the forest. I am about 5 turns away from a whip cycle. However, I might have some cities that could use multiple whips.

    Turns 240 to 256 - War with Germany

    Turn 240 - 950 AD - Well, I did make a switch to Bureaucracy / Slavery / Organized Religion. Bureaucracy was an experiment. Right now, I think it worked out no net benefit over Vassalage. Thebes is not strong enough. There might be a better site out there, but I'm not about to build a new Capital.

    Turn 242 - 970 AD - Asoka wanted to buy Drama and I needed gold. Was 620 gp a good price? I did not see much benefit to him getting it right now. We also signed Open Borders with the French.

    I don't know where Asoka got all that gold. Maybe he wants to research Music. We sold Literature for another 405 gp. I needed gold. Knights are expensive.

    Turn 243 - 980 AD - We finished research of Guilds. We upgraded a few of our most important War Chariots to Knights. We cut another deal with Mansa Musa. We traded Music and 220 gp for Paper. If I was making a bid towards a Liberalism slingshot, we might as well knock off a step. Never mind I started on Printing Press instead of Education.

    We also got a Great Scientist. I decided to use the Education bulb the next turn. I did not know the number of bulbs goes down with time. So we got a few thousand bulbs and I just did not see myself getting that out of an Academy in Thebes for many, many turns. I switched research over to Education.

    Turn 245 - 1000 AD - Time is up for the round of whipping. We switched back. The critique is noted that I should run Caste System. The next issue I was having is my FP cities have no production, so I started to run priests so that they at least have something.

    Turn 247 - 1020 AD - Isabel of Spain renounced Frederick and is free and independent. The timing was brilliant! She must have known what I was up to!

    Turn 248 - 1030 AD - We got a Great Artist from an event!

    Spoiler :


    I was not even intentionally running an Attacko gambit by having a Mosque for no reason.

    We were finally ready to declare war on Germany. Mansa followed along against us, unfortunately. It did not take long to find his stack. I would have seen it much earlier if I had done proper scouting earlier with the Open Borders. I will get better at :backstab: eventually.


    No matter - They pillaged the road, so they can't counterattack from there very quickly. You are right! Fred does suck at war! We found a couple of easy targets to smash and marched our stack right next to Munich.

    Turn 249 - 1040 AD - We captured Munich.


    The German Stack of Doom has not moved. It seems to be preparing to attack Rome. This might turn out to be a good reason why Rome still exists!

    Turn 250 - 1050 AD - We finished research on Education and are one away from a Liberalism slingshot. I am going to have to watch England carefully to see when Education has been researched. I want to get Replaceable Parts out of it, but will take Nationalism. I think I can out-research England.

    In other news, Peace was forced between Spain and Rome.

    Here is a little peek at Mali land.


    Did you think Greek land was terrible?

    Turn 252 - 1070 AD - We cut another deal with India, Iron for Banana for some reason. I can use health, anyway.

    We also burned Stuttgart. Didn't I burn this city site before?


    Turn 253 - 1080 AD - In yet another questionable move, we built the Angkor What?!


    At the time, I wanted the hammers from Priests. I forgot to check if the bonus applies to Great Prophets as well.

    How did Mali sneak troops here?


    This might be a consequence of Open Borders. Troops get kicked out and land somewhere outside of borders. Hastily I promoted the Warrior in Mecca and moved a Chariot over as a backup. Knossos was able to build a Knight in time.

    We also captured Berlin. It was not heavily defended. Its stack is still guarding against the Romans.


    Turn 255 - 1100 AD - Finally, they marched!


    I thought this was a good time to throw away those Catapults. They were feeling obsolete, compared to the Trebuchets. Apparently, they have a battlefield application, with 5 strength instead of 4. They all died gloriously, at 39.0% chance of retreat. Softened up, we were able to knock a few of them down. We had 4 Maces in Munich and 2 more in Berlin. I was ignoring the stack until they moved.

    At the end of the turn, they threw themselves against the Maces in Munich and a lot of them died. The stack is effectively broken. There are four of them left and they will die next turn and Hamburg will fall.

    We have another Great General. What should we do with him? I'm still thinking settle in Knossos and we get units with 11 XP right out of the gate. The knights get 13 XP. Maybe there is a better plan.

    Attached Files:

  12. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

    Feb 12, 2006
    I stand corrected those Greeks captured cities are not doing bad. Plenty of hammers.

    Do you start taking vassals now? Pends if you want to have more control over the AP. Might save time on the victory here. English control AP. Vassals would likely vote for you. I would certainly capture the German city your next to. Vassals will make neighbours more annoyed. If you take out enough Xtian cities you should have control over AP.

    French have 1-2 cities? No way can they fend off more advanced troops/

    Peace with Mansa for now? Your unlikely to attack him any time soon.

    Killing off these one city Ai will be good. You may have to vassal entire map as you will need 90 or so cities to reach finishing line here? What is your victory plan here? At this stage of game I might be doing war on several fronts. However you are using caste which slows this down.

    Have any Ai offered to be your vassal? Indians?
  13. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

    Dec 16, 2008
    I got to Turn 264. There are three German cities left and only see two. I will play a game of find the last German city. It might be on a corner of Scandanavia or it might be along the north coast.

    They now have Engineering and are building Pikes, but not castles.

    Then my computer forced an update and it might take a while. (overnight) I thought it overheated. I’m kind of overdue for a newer one.

    Edit: That went better than I thought. Nothing seems corrupted. I found the last German City, so will send troops in that direction.

    Peace with Mali happened by resolution. Fred couldn’t set up a vote to save himself or win?

    I don’t think it will take long to wipe out Western Europe. There are eight rivals left in the old world: England, France, Spain and Mali in the west; China, Mongolia, Japan , and India in the east.

    Victory conditions?
    Time? That would be nearly 500 turns and I’m not doing that.
    Culture? I did not set up early for culture.
    Space? That will also take a long time. Are there bonus points for building the space ship? I forget. If I was going for space, then I should have turtled up after Greece and secured Africa and maybe delivered the coup de grace on Rome. That would be enough for Space.

    Religious? Is Christianity wide spread enough for a religious victory?
    Diplomatic? That might be earlier than space - and domination and conquest.

    Domination? At least we are creative and have lots of land to settle.
    Conquest? This is doable. I would be going after China with rifles.

    Basically, I will go for a mega score, then chalk up my lessons.

    Based on your feedback, my game fell apart a bit somewhere around Turn 100, just after the zombie apocalypse. It’s because of lacking experience with that part of the game.

    Where to next? I might look at a Noble Club game, then another Earth game. Going straight down the list, India’s starting situation I should study.
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2020
  14. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

    Dec 16, 2008
    Turns 256 to 272 - The Fall of Germany

    It really took that long. It might be because I was not opening multiple fronts.

    T256 - 1110 AD - Out of that stack of Germans guarding Rome, there were only a few remaining. In the previous turn, they threw themselves at those maces in Munich. We got rid of the rest of them and continued our march.

    Spoiler :


    Next was Hamburg.


    These longbows made a mess of my troops.


    They each won a battle at over 85%. Little did I know at the time, they were on their way to reinforce a newly founded city on the coast.

    Turn 260 - 1150 AD - There was a miracle on the walls of Thebes. Islam continued to spread. Rome is no more. The French destroyed Rome.

    We reached Cologne.


    We also captured a Barbarian city in southern Africa.


    Well, we finally got around to it. A few turns later, the Mali would take advantage of the destruction of the Romans by capturing a city near Carthage. I did not act quickly enough. When we take out Spain, they will have free reign over northwestern Africa - until we get around to attacking, that is. It shouldn't be like fighting the Russians.

    Turn 262 - 1170 AD - We captured Essen.


    Turn 263 - 1180 AD - We finished research on the Printing Press. Later, I will realize this was a bit of a dead end. We got some benefit from our villages and towns. We started on the path to Liberalisim.

    Meanwhile, the Germans wasted about 90 Espionage destroying a farm near Moscow which took one turn to rebuild. Eventually, we will be changing the builds to slow down the growth in Russia a little bit.

    Turn 264 - 1190 AD - Peace with the Mali was forced by the Apostolic Palace. How far away are we from control?

    Turn 265 - 1200 AD - We captured Dortmund.


    We also found and razed Dusseldorf.

    Turn 268 - 1230 AD - We finally captured Frankfurt and destroyed the Germans.


    Turn 270 - 1250 AD - We were the first to discover Liberalism. It shows in the new ideas. It looks like I am building more buildings again. This is when I found out I was missing Banking to get Replaceable Parts. It's no big deal. I took Nationalism again.

    While at it, I kind of want to build the Taj Mahal and spring our first Golden Age. Mostly, the idea is to deny my opponents a Golden Age.

    We also have enough Great People for two more Golden Ages. Or - I can send the Great Prophet in to build another shrine. I'm not sure if it is worth it at this stage of the game, because the newer religions have only very local influence, and I would have to build and send missionaries everywhere.

    Is Oxford worth building somewhere?

    Wall Street will probably go to Mecca. It might go to Madrid.

    What do I need for a Religious Victory?

    Attached Files:

  15. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

    Feb 12, 2006
    You don't need more workers. You are spamming buildings here. Many of which are pointless. Wall Street and Ox Uni are a distraction.

    Looking at AP I think you would need vassals to secure votes. If you simply take the big Ai cities this will just give you over 75% of the vote. Still 2 more Ai to find.

    I switched to Christianity. Gifted French and Mansa techs to get +4 trade relations. Next turn they both freely offered to vassal. I asked both in trade screen. So if you took out Spanish, 2 English cities and spread Christianity to all cities it would hopefully get you over finishing line.

    Vassals and all Ai having religion is way forward. So Astronomy is pretty important here to meet final 2 Ai.
  16. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

    Dec 16, 2008
    Oops, I played all weekend and didn't post anything. They way you did it, you probably ended the game much earlier.

    I didn't understand how to get an AP victory. I think you have to spread religion to all civilizations, then vote yourself a victory with 75% of the vote, but somebody has to actually vote for you. Instead, I'm grinding through an all-front war. So it looks like an eventual Domination victory.

    I'll post a much later (1640) save and tell stories during the week what happened.

    On the subject of managing large armies - I might do well to group my units. Otherwise all the little management gets exhausting.

    After messing up the AP victory, the game suddenly got very interesting, hence, the long delay, many turns, and no update.

    Attached Files:

  17. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

    Feb 12, 2006
    Well Aztecs will capitulate now. Looks like China will put up a good fight. You may have already completed this.

    You need to learn to galleon chain so units reach continent in 1 turn. Albeit pointless now as only Incans left over there. The game is won but looks like you will have to vassal everyone.

    You would of saved yourself a lot of work by trying to get vassals by working on diplomacy earlier.Your fighting it out with Mali who would of been your vassal back in 1260ad with a religion switch. Same for French and likely others. Indians too. Always check if Ai are will to vassal. Especially the ones who are more peace based.

    AP is simple. You need 75% of all votes but you are not allowed to have more than 75% yourself. So 3-4 European vassals would of done trick. All AI need to have the religion.

    Oh AI afraid of your enemies could stop some from capitulating.
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
  18. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

    Feb 12, 2006
    Some thought on map overall. The AI start with only warriors. The barbs lack archery. Of course with raging barbs the AI would of struggled with a huge barrage of barb archers early on. On a normal immortal game the AI would start with 3 archers and 2 scouts. I did wonder if archery should be added back to the barbs on this map. Maybe it is intentional given the large amounts of empty land. It does mean barb cities spawning are defended by only warriors.

    Even with huts disabled on these maps there still appear to be some huts. Bizarre.

    One downside to 18 AI on map is you gain a bigger advantage from reaching a tech first. You have up to 18 Ai to trade the tech away to. On a map like this you probably need to play 1 level higher. Pends on how much micro you wish to use. Or how much you want to play for fun.

    I guess with 18 Ai there is a decent chance at least one AI will grow big. On my test play game I easily had 10 cities before 500bc. Most of them from settling empty land. Albeit I was playing a different leader. 2 from capturing barb cities. 2 from AI. 6 settled.
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
  19. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

    Dec 16, 2008
    The map is Earth and I think it goes back to the original Civ 4. Originally - Egypt, India, Greece, Rome, Persia, Japan, Germany, and Mongolia.
    The rest were added later - France, Arabia, Spain, England, Russia, Mali, Inca, Aztec, USA.

    Europe got very crowded suddenly.

    AI starts with Warriors only. Barbarians start with Warriors only. I think it is because it is a scenario map and the the AI and Barbarian starts are the same. I think if you tried a scenario (map) like Earth Ice Age, you would get the same result.

    Raging Barbarians - I thought it would be fun on a map like this. Also, I think Epic speed makes the problem worse. There are more turns for Barbarians to spawn. It is said the Earth map makes Barbarians a bit more of a threat on empty continents, like North America.

    Adding Archery back to AI on the map - I remember when Neal was doing his King of the World series, he started to modify the map to give the AI units and technology appropriate to the difficulty level. Adding Archery to the Barbarians at the start - I think that means around Turn 50, they start showing up with Archers.

    Huts disabled - The hut locations are fixed on the map, so disabling huts won't do anything.

    18 AI and tech trading - I should get better at taking advantage of this. Usually it is China that grows big. Russia also grows big. Spain is limited to one city. France might get one extra. England had four in my game, but teched very well. Mali teched very well, but had really bad land.

    One level higher - at least. It might depend on the empire you play. I remember reading something from Hollywood giving them tier rankings. Egypt was given a Tier two ranking. That means they have very good land, but some weakness (no metal) and a thorn in the side. They probably have to fight somebody (Persia) for metal. Rome gets a Tier one ranking. Mali with the modifications you suggest would be very difficult.

    Also, if we start the AI Barbarians more powerful, it does not mean that much if we are playing a civilization that is surrounded by AI, such as Spain. Egypt, with War Chariots available, might still be able to pull off a War Chariot rush. How long does it take before the Barbarians have spears and axes?

    Random Events and Epic Speed - the probability of triggering a random event does not scale with game speed. So the probability of triggering the Vedic Aryans very early is higher. (4 Barbarian Archers show up on Turn 20 on Epic. What is the probability of surviving that?)

    I hope some of this makes sense.

    Which civilization did you play?


    The game here is four turns at a time and it takes a pretty long time to play just one turn. I think I might get faster if I just stack my units. There are just so many to manage. So I am eight turns later than the last save I posted.

    The end is in sight. China, Mongolia, India and the Aztecs will all capitulate. That leaves Japan and the Incas, who I have not yet reached.

    Domination victory - It seems to be taking a very long time to get to 50% land area.

    Conquest victory - I just have to take a couple of Japanese cities and wipe out their stack and they will also capitulate, right? I might have to build some Galleons. Incas are not very big and I just have to show up with some troops.

    EDIT - On the plus side, it is looking much more likely that I will finish this game! :D
  20. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

    Feb 12, 2006
    Yeah looks like that game is won. I would not be building more units. Wealth! You could spam settlers to grab land.

    I was trying China but I am not sure how much of a challenge it really is as I have 10 cities and GLH built. Plus one capital captured. Was only really playing for CKN but that plan is slightly flawed as I teched fishing stopping the bulb plan. Then ended up with a GS instead of GM. Should still get there. I play normal speed.

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