"Eastern Europe" - why we hate the term

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Winner

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Inspired by this post.

As a Czech, I noticed that people from countries further in the West still tend to call countries like the Czech Rep., Poland, Hungary and others "Eastern European". Even the media often reffer to the Central Europe as Eastern Europe. Obviously, this term is widely used and people there don't have a problem with it, and it often surprises them why we do have a problem with it.

The two main reasons for that are:

1) It's wrong
2) It's offensive


I'll try to explain why.

1)
The term "Eastern Europe" appeared during the Cold War. It was used to describe countries lying East of the Iron Curtain, countries which had succumbed to Communism spread by Moscow.

250px-Iron_Curtain_Final.svg.png


The term "Eastern Europe" had been used before that, but with a very different meaning. It originates in the Middle Ages when it was used for the Orthodox countries, as opposed to Catholic (and later also Protestant) countries in the West.

250px-Europe_religion_map_en.png


After it lost its religious connotations, it was used either as a purely geographic term for countries East of Polish-Romanian border, or it had cultural notions. Countries like Czechoslovakia or Hungary were not considered Eastern European acocrding to contemporary standards.

People in Germany, Czechoslovakia, Austria and other countries considered themselves to be a part of Central Europe which as its name impires lies between Western Europe (France and the Low countries) and Eastern Europe (Russia+Ukraine+Belarus).

Central Europe as a region was split by the Iron Curtain, so it slowly fell out of usage. During the Cold War, political and ideologic affiliation dictated everything. Europe was divided into two camps, one of which was in the West and second in the East, therefore "Eastern Europe" and "Western Europe" were useful to describe the situation.

Unfortunately, when this division ceased to exist and Europe got rid of the Communist threat, people were so used to the Cold War terminology that they still use it even today, almost two decades after its end. Which brings me to the second point.

2)
Being called "Eastern Europeans" is offensive to vast majority of Czechs, Poles, Hungarians, Slovenians, Hungarians and others. For them, it symbolizes a period of time they are certainly not proud of, a forced separation from the rest of Europe where they think they naturally belong. Being called "Eastern Europeans" has very negative connotation there, it's like being called "2nd class Europeans", those who don't really belong to Europe. It's very unfair in their eyes.

Czechs and Poles tried to ignore this in the 90's, when they were still struggling to overcome many problems of transition, but now, in the 21st century, when they're members of the European Union, originally a Western European organization, when they're members of NATO, a Western organization which used to defend Western Europe from the Communist threat, when they've estabilished market economies and liberal democratic form of government, it's the time to start calling them Central Europe which they feel to be part of, historically and culturally.

Eastern Europe makes no sense as a political term now, today it's nothing but a geographic term for Russia, Belarus and Ukraine. When somebody use it for, say, the Czech Republic, it sounds ridiculous, since this country lies almost exactly in the middle of Europe (like Austria), it is a member of the same organizations as the "Western European" countries and it is as democratic and free as they are.

EU_map_names_isles.png


If you're wondering, we're not overreacting. We want just and fair treatment, and we don't ask for much. Is a slight change of your dictionary so hard to accept? What if somebody called Germany "the Third Reich" because of a short period in its history when it was ruled by a totalitarian regime? I doubt Germans would like it. Eastern Europe is an offensive term to us for the same reason, so please, be polite and call things by their true names.

(any questions? :mischief: )


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EDIT: Before you start with this "but these countries are in the East, that's what they said in our geography class!" nonsense, see this post.
 
I've been playing EU too much, so I use the catholic/orthodox division, so don't worry. :p
 
I suppose I'll refer to it as The Former Soviet Second World States in the Eastern Regions of Western Europe...or something from now on then.
 
Winner, I'm not claiming to know more of the opinions of your countrymen than you do (although in the past when the majority of your countrymen disagreed with you you contended their opinions should just be ignored, so you clearly dont put much stock in their opinions), but do you have anything other than anecdotal evidence to back up this claim:
Being called "Eastern Europeans" is offensive to vast majority of Czechs, Poles, Hungarians, Slovenians, Hungarians and others
 
Winner, I'm not claiming to know more of the opinions of your countrymen than you do (although in the past when the majority of your countrymen disagreed with you you contended their opinions should just be ignored, so you clearly dont put much stock in their opinions), but do you have anything other than anecdotal evidence to back up this claim:

Day to day experience.
 
But, aren't those countries on the east side of europe?

We are to forego simple geographic description because those countries are ashamed of their past? I don't get it.

What if we decided that we didn't want to be called westerners anymore, because of the negative connotations? Can we be the easterners? We could just rename the easterners jabronis, ok?

C'mon, those countries are in eastern europe. We're not going to change what we call them unless they move, geographically. That would be pretty difficult, so I think you are stuck with the accurate geographic designation.

If you try really hard though, we might start calling you western asia.
 
I think you may have forgotten one part in your rant.

For some people (me included), Russia is not really european. It's so far east, that it's almost an Asian country.
And also, Russia will not become part of EU before a long time.

So far me, Europe stops at the Russian Western border.

Therefore,

France, Germany, Spain, Italy, are in Western Europe (Western half), and Czech, Austria, Poland, Romania, are in Eastern Europe (Eastern half). Russia is East of Europe, and not Eastern Europe.

If I had to divide Europe in 3 parts, I'd put France, Spain, in Western Europe, Germany, Austria, Italy, and possibly Czech republic in Central Europe, and Poland, Romania, in Eastern Europe.

But we can also discuss if such a "vertical" division is the best, or should we have Northern / Southern Europe?

hmm...
 
Every country to the east of us is Eastern Europe for us. :p
 
Stephe how the hell is russia not european? the vast majority of its population lives west of the Uruals, speaks a european language, are from a european ethnic group etc... Russia is of course a European country.
 
Stephe how the hell is russia not european? the vast majority of its population lives west of the Uruals, speaks a european language, are from a european ethnic group etc... Russia is of course a European country.
The majority of Canadian population lives west of the Urals, speaks a european language, are from a European ethnic group.

Canada is of course a European country.
 
The majority of Canadian population lives west of the Urals, speaks a european language, are from a European ethnic group.

Canada is of course a European country.

OK Steph, be an obtuse BS'er if you want, between the Atlantic and the Urals (the universally acknowledged eastern and western boundaries of Europe). Russia is European, Russian is the most widely spoken language in Europe, Moscow if the biggest city in Europe, etc etc like it or not.
 
I don't think it's meant in any offensive manner Winner, I think it's just that it's hard to change your manner of speech after fifty years. We have a similar thing in Australia as it pertains to Asia. We still refer to the Orient as the Far East, when geographically it's actually our "Near North," as one Prime Minsiter famously said. Many people referred to places in other Soviet republics like Kiev in the Ukraine as Russian cities after all, even though they were not. Eventually, this will change.
 
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