"Eastern Europe" - why we hate the term

[mrtn]

If I talk about all the ex communist states I say Eastern Europe. If I talk about Central Europe I'll say that. Some countries are part of both of these groups (Czech Republic for example), but that doesn't mean that they're the same, or that they have the same usage.

I don't mean anything derogatory with either of those labels.

 

[Dezzilisk]

I wouldnt consider that eastern europe myself, its any of the 'Russian' countries like ukraine, belarus and other countries that used to be in the soviet union.

So anywhere east of the Czech Rep. and hungary, not those countries themselves.

What is the European part of Russia if if the Czech rep. is eastern europe? Far Eastern Europe or something?

Too many problems for me.

 

[Fëanor]

Czechs are as Western/Central Europeans as Turks are Mediterranean/Southern Europeans

 

[MjM]

Well, I don't like being called Yank. So Eastern Europe will continue.

 

[Winner]

Winner:

I'd like to point out that I meant I could identify the general area. My knowledge of differences between certain countries is not good. The furthest I have travelled East is Austria. Also, as we have established, your definition of central europe is different to mine. However, here I go:

1. You didn't img tag it

Yeah, sorry. It was Linz, Austria.

2. Poland

Wrong, it's Pelhřimov, Czech Rep.

3. Poland

Correct, it's Opole, Poland

4. Germany

Wrong, it's Hollabrunn, Austria

5. Czech Republic

Correct, it is Kroměřiž, Czech Rep.

6. Poland

Wrong, it's Olomouc, Czech Rep.

7. Hungary

Correct, Veszprem, Hungary

8. Germany

Wrong, it's Ljublana, Slovenia

9. Slovenia

Wrong, it's Nitra, Slovakia

10. Germany

Correct, it's Rothenburg, Germany

11. Germany

Wrong, it's Torun, Poland

12. Germany

What the...?! Sorry, that was meant to be a picture of a german town...

13. Austria

Wrong, it's Tábor, Czech Rep.

From looking at those pictures though, they are all typically Eastern European to me, even the ones from Germany, which has some Eastern European influences.

That's because they're not Eastern European This is a typical Central European architecture. It's not true that Germany has Eastern European infuences, it'S the other way round - Central Europe is heavily influenced by German culture, to the extent it is sometimes impossible to differentiate. Czech Rep., for example, has been a part of Austria-Hungary for at least 400 years, and third of its population in that time was German. Poland was partitioned between Prussia, Austria and Russia, therefore its Western and Central parts are also pretty "German-looking". The same applies to Hungary or Slovenia as well.

You see, what you think is Eastern Europe is in fact very un-Eastern. Eastern Europe is mostly Russia, plus Belarus and the Eastern parts of Ukraine.

 

[Winner]

Czechs are as Western/Central Europeans as Turks are Mediterranean/Southern Europeans

You gotta love these smartass judgements from people who have no damn idea what they're talking about

 

[Winner]

Well, I don't like being called Yank. So Eastern Europe will continue.

Of course it will, but without us

 

[Winner]

So middle europeans, or whatever they are, like buildings with pointy things on top better that buildings with bulbous things on top. We got the idea.

Hey, that's it. Let's call them "middle europeans".

Funny. If Czech Rep., which lies in the very center of Europe and is culturally closer to Germany or Austria than say France, is to be called Eastern European, then Finland should be called Eastern European too.

Hey, wait, it doesn't fit, right?

 

[Mirc]

Hmmm.

In my opinion, the term "Eastern Europe" would be removed from nations as they joined the European Union, and became more blatantly 'westernized'. Now, this is not to say that they aren't modernized, etc, etc already, but until the common North American or 'Western' European sees this status appointed by a higher authority (read: EU membership), the term will stick.

I also think the term originated more due to the fact that Russia (The 'East') has traditionally had more influence over certain areas of "Eastern" Europe, such as Poland, the Baltic States, The Ukraine, and the Balkans, than "Western" Europe (read: France, UK, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Germany-ish).

Then why is Romania called Eastern European? FYI it is inside the EU! And the same with the Czech Republic, Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, Austria, etc.

 

[REDY]

Interesting thread. When we Czechs are talking about eastern europe, we dont talking about ourselves. When we are talking about western europe(not about West), we also dont talking about ourselves. Easterners call us western europe, westerners eastern europe. So there has to be something between. I mean that 40 years of being under Soviet rule doesnt change centuries without seeing any Russian.
Yes for me as Czech is eastern europe offensive term, because eastern europe culture how I see it is too alien and unfamiliar to Czech culture.
But seriously I think its not such offensive how Winner said. (at least in Bohemia). Its true that teachers from abroad in our universities have rather learnt to not use it.

 

[Winner]

Historical Atlas, 1911:

It's pretty clear what contemporary historians called Central Europe...

 

[Steph]

Historical Atlas, 1911:
It's pretty clear what contemporary historians called Central Europe...

No, it shows what was Central Europe in 1812. Not what is was in 1911, or what it should be today

And you have to change your location from "Brno -> Czech rep. >>European Union" to "Brno -> Bohemia (or Moravia? Where is Brno exactly)-> Empire of Austria

 

[Winner]

No, it shows what was Central Europe in 1812. Not what is was in 1911, or what it should be today

No

The atlas was created in 1911, and the author named the map Central Europe, because until the Cold War started, Central Europe used to encompass the parts of Europe east of France, north of Italy and West of Russia.

Only then "Eastern Europe" was expanded to illustrate the changed geo-political situation. And since the causes of this have disappeared, the terms Central Europe" and "Eastern Europe" should be used in their original meaning undistorted by the Cold War.

And you have to change your location from "Brno -> Czech rep. >>European Union" to "Brno -> Bohemia (or Moravia? Where is Brno exactly)-> Empire of Austria

Brno is marked on the map, of course under its German name.

And I don't want to bring back the past, I just want to show how stupid and unnatural it is to call this region "Eastern".

 

[REDY]

"Brno -> Bohemia

Ouch. One thing for Moravians worse than calling them eastern europeans...

(or Moravia? Where is Brno exactly)

Yup, Brno is biggest city in Moravia. On map Brünn.

 

[warpus]

Guess the country

Spoiler :

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Spoiler :

 

[Marla_Singer]

Yup, Brno is biggest city in Moravia. On map Brünn.

Talking about this, it would be a better idea to keep the German name and call it Brünn both in English and French. Brno is just impossible to pronounce. And as it's impossible to pronounce, people always forget about it... Furthermore, Brünn is a prettier sound than Brno.


Well, anyway, if we would ask me in which cultural region Czech Rep is located, I would probably say Central Europe. After all, Czech Republic has been culturally deeply germanized. Even more so than Poland. However, on a geographical basis, I wouldn't be shocked if it's still called Eastern Europe. This of course doesn't mean that I put Czech Rep in the same category as Ukraine, but to be quite honnest, I don't picture Ukraine to be part of the Europe as I live it everyday. I don't say it's Asian, I just say that the area of Belarus, Ukraine, Russia, Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Ouzbekistan is a specific world region in itself. Let's call it Central Eurasia.

 

[REDY]

Talking about this, it would be a better idea to keep the German name and call it Brünn both in English and French. Brno is just impossible to pronounce. And as it's impossible to pronounce, people always forget about it... Furthermore, Brünn is a prettier sound than Brno..

There are many cities which in my opinion sound better in German and are more worldwide known than in Czech(Karlsbad, Budweis). But Brno is cool in Czech, it should be used better in rhymes in czech language ü is not in Czech aplhabet anyways.

Well, anyway, if we would ask me in which cultural region Czech Rep is located, I would probably say Central Europe. After all, Czech Republic has been culturally deeply germanized. Even more so than Poland. However, on a geographical basis, I wouldn't be shocked if it's still called Eastern Europe. This of course doesn't mean that I put Czech Rep in the same category as Ukraine, but to be quite honnest, I don't picture Ukraine to be part of the Europe as I live it everyday. I don't say it's Asian, I just say that the area of Belarus, Ukraine, Russia, Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Ouzbekistan is a specific world region in itself. Let's call it Central Eurasia.

I think that change terminology cant be at command and best would be natural development - Where we will be finally not second-rated members of EU (yeah now we are) the thinking will start changing. And this is not only about economics but also in political culture and in other and other small things...its unfair but new player in sport team bought by rival has to be also better than some regular players already in team..Masaryk (first president of Czechoslovakia) said "So we have democracy. Now we have to find some democrats." sry for english, I hope that you understand.

 

[aronnax]

Oh my what an ugly skyline....

Its either Poland or...Slovenia

 

[Oruc]

So is Germany Eastern European to?

No western, any other questions smart-arse or do you just like spamming

Moderator Action: Flaming - warned.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[REDY]

Oh my what an ugly skyline....

Its either Poland or...Slovenia

Slovenia surely not, they have not any skylines. It has to be modern part of Warsaw. (What another one should be chosen by warpus)