Egyptian Units

[cybrxkhan]

^that guy looks more generic Egyptian in my view... perhaps if you armed him with something that looked like an Ak-47, he'd look like some pseudo-Egyptian marine or guerilla!

 

[Bakuel]

I think the rifleman looks a bit too European. If I fuse Egypt with any other later era cultures they would probably be Arabic, North African Berbers or Turkic/Ottoman style stuff, they just seem to fit better in my opinon. I have an idea for an Egyptian rifleman now though.
The musketman looks nice. I'll probably use it's general design if you don't mind.

@cybrxkhan What?! You're already planning out the egyptian modern era?

 

[cybrxkhan]

@cybrxkhan What?! You're already planning out the egyptian modern era?

mayube. i'd love to use these kind of units for me... er... personal army.

anyhow, on the rifleman, i think you shouldn't use a Turkish/Arabic styled unit, or else youmight as well make a Turkish/Arabic rifleman, if you get my drift...

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

glad you like my Musketman Bakuel If you need any inspiration let me know I can whip alot of stuff up with my art program.

 

[sepamu92]

Those both look great, Sword! I personally don't think the rifleman looks too western - probably it's the boots that are doing it, but altogether it looks appropriate for both the culture and the level of technology. As for later units, such as Infantry or Machinegunner, I think by this level of technology any civ, regardless of culture, will have replaced their more extravagant costumes for a more standardized look.

 

[NikNaks]

Good point about later units, sepamu.

 

[Bakuel]

Let me explain what I meant… In the world of fashion and it’s history in the old world there are two types of people, those who wear pants and those that don’t. The guys that wear pants usually came from central Asia (Ancient Persians, Germans, Franks, and so on) If you look at their military dress it’s usually more form fitting. Then, there are the poor unenlightened fools who don’t like pants (Arabs, most Africans, Egyptians, Greeks, Romans .etc) their military dress is usually less form fitting and looser (robes, skirts, etc.).
Ok… I’m full of bull.
Anyhow, Ancient Egyptians had loincloths and robes and stuff like that and lived in the desert. I just think their military dress in the 18th-19th centuries would still be kind of loose, similar to the other Middle Eastern nations.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Hows this Bakuel?

 

[Bakuel]

I already thought of a rifleman design, but I'm going to use some of your two riflemen for grenadiers. At first I thought the design was weird, but it kind of grew on me after the first glance. I don’t mean to be nitpicky, but what threw me off was the chest vest and black boots.
Actually, I just had an idea, could you try giving him back the pants and lengthen the skirt in the back? You know similar to how in civ4 those grenadiers have tails in the back of them? Not as long as the gernadiers of course, it being only a skirt.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Not sure what you mean but I'll try I guess

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

How is this?

 

[Bakuel]

It's no worry, it was just a nit pick. I'm going to use the basic design anyway.

EDIT: Crosspost! Same minute!
As for the image, I like it! I'm going to use this one. The only thing I will change will be the white vest, I'm not going to bug you about that though, because I have no idea what to do with it either.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

How is this?

You responded a sec before me lol

 

[cybrxkhan]

for the second try at the rifleman, his shorts need to be longer.

i think it still looks kinda western, but maybe its only because the guy looks caucasoid. i think perhaps the hat should be the kinda hat like in this guy, perhaps the helmet being more solid:

thinks that looks okay?

 

[Bakuel]

Hmmm… That’s a good idea too! Too many choices…
How about I make ten Egyptian riflemen, six grenadiers, and four different cannons and everyone could choose which one suited them best. Everyone is a winner then!

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

It's no worry, it was just a nit pick. I'm going to use the basic design anyway.

EDIT: Crosspost! Same minute!
As for the image, I like it! I'm going to use this one. The only thing I will change will be the white vest, I'm going to bug you about that though, because I have no idea what to do with it either.

Hmmmmm.....maybe turn it gold?

 

[cybrxkhan]

Hmmm… That’s a good idea too! Too many choices…
How about I make ten Egyptian riflemen, six grenadiers, and four different cannons and everyone could choose which one suited them best. Everyone is a winner then!

maybe a variety of them would be awesome, if you're up to it!!!! then we can have a Euro-supported Egypto faction and the traditional noble Egyptian faction fighting for their lives! that'd be awesome!

 

[Bakuel]

Maybe…. I have no idea, but it’ll be at least about two weeks before I get to these Egyptian units so it’s no real hurry.
Oh yes, in that quote I meant to say “I’m not going to bug you about that though”, just to make sure you knew.

@ cybrxkhan
What have I signed myself up for?
I could do two rifleman designs, though there are many other flavor units in the world that NikNak93 wants me to work on for the Visimod other then Egypt, so it's all based on how much time I have. Heh, I was originally just going to do a medival era and leave it at that. Silly me.

I just loaded up four more egyptian units, feel free to criticize.

 

[callicles]

The new units you uploaded are great. Thanks for the unmasked knight, too. I never was much of a stargate fan.

As for the discussion of Musketman, Grenadier, and Rifleman... I echo Bakuel's commentary about pants v. tunics. In Rome, at least, they considered it a really big deal that the Parthians wore pants and not tunics. Also, I believe that the cisalpine gauls were sometimes referred to as the gallia togata because they wore togas like proper phil-hellenes, not pants like those transalpine gauls on the far side of the mountains.

The fact of the matter is that its very difficult to imagine what egyptian culture, if active and alive, would be like had the Egyptians not been first conquered by the Persians and subsequently by the Macedonians. It's even more difficult to imagine them without Christian, Arab, and Muslim influences (because, at least the Macedonian Ptolemies tried to assimilate and become Egyptian instead of making the Egyptians into hellenes).

Likewise, I think Bakuel is right to try and identify those aspects of Egyptian culture that are most distinctly Egyptian and superimpose those ontop of more modern cultural traditions.

The Arabs, in game, retain much of the Beduin style of dress throughout the game. The Persians, are distincly un-persian for most of the game, and quickly become Arab-Iranians. Contrarily, the Carthagenians retain their Hellenistic-Mediterranean feel and never resort to the Morroccan-Berber-Tunisian-Arabic influences we see in North Africa today. Likewise, the Carthagenians, in game, feel more Greek than Punic.

Compare this with the Americans. If we follow the Egyptian example, at least as they are represented in game, the Americans in the Ancient, Classical, and Medieval eras should be, as far as unit art, similar to Native American Tribes and then transform into European style units during the Renaissance. Obviously, this is not the case. Flavor unit creators have, instead, decided to make American flavor units akin to European and English units until the Industrial Age. The flavor units track the people, not the location.

The opposite is true of the Persians and Egyptians. There, flavor unit creators tend to track the locations and not the people. Thus, medieval and renaissance Egyptians and Persians look more Arab than Egyptian or Persian.

The medieval period saw an expansion of armored soldiers. The weapons and style of fighting saw a progression of military advances and led to more heavily protected soldiers (the traditional armored knight is a good example). However, with the development of gunpowder, quite obviously, this armor became obsolete.

The big question, then, is this: after the use of heavy armor faded away, would early-modern Egyptians and Persians resort to their earlier style of dress, or adopt new ones?

I think the answer will and would come from the social and environmental utility of the clothing. Arab clothing is long and flowing to shield from the heat and the sun. But such a style of clothing is based on hundreds of years of nomadic shepherding where individuals were exposed to the elements and burning sun.

What would the Nile style of living be like? It was always more urban than the surrounding civilizations. What impact would that have, if any? The elements would be less of a problem. Instead, disease (like malaria) and the heat would be the major hinderance.

In the end, perhaps your imagination is as good as mine.

 

[Chuggi]

I think the knight looks good, will probably use him (perhaps the horse could have armour as well so you can tell it's meant to replace the knight and not the horseman) The crossbowman is also good.

I'm not sure about the black archer (doesn't suit other Egyptian units) ... and the pikeman needs a screenshot!