[GS] Eleanor of Aquitaine Discussion Thread

[Jkchart]

So she is rubbish then
convert a city or two if you want to play that long.

I dunno about "rubbish" but rather a more difficult-to-use choice where the non-immediate benefits can pay sizable dividends when your cards are played right. A "soft domination" of your opponents through opening up a new use for your great works - this also gives great works (for once) an ability beyond just tourism/cultural output, which people have certainly been asking for.

She's an odd duck, but I'm sure she can be used in a clever manner.

 

[Ziad]

Wait, how do pillaging and policy cards reduce loyalty?

Pillaging reduces amenities in a city (would have to draw from a global pool), and amenity negatives reduce loyalty.

Cards that assist spies and other mechanics can reduce loyalty.

 

[Onin]

So how much great works does an average border city have around mid-game? 2 writing + 3 art = 5 works? Would -5 loyalty make any difference? I don't know. If you build Hermitage, maaybe 9 works. If you're in a Golden Age and they're in a Dark, perhaps. But then you can probably already flip them.
Plus, I don't know if I want to get crappy AI cities with bad layout mid- to lategame.

I think the key will be figuring out how far the negative pressure reaches and whether it decays based on distance or not. The wording seems to suggest it doesn't. The negative pressure itself would be about stacking negatives, so relics, theater districts, cathedrals and Amani are all priorities. Not to mention your own positive pressure.

 

[Ziad]

Sorry, but the only reply I can make to this (and especially the ending of your post) is: what have you been smoking today?

I don't understand. She gets literally no benefits to generating culture, GWAMs and great works outside of the France-specific abilities. It just leads to empire expansion through city flipping, which in itself is great and can fuel any victory type.

 

[blackcatatonic]

Anyone hear what she's saying?

To me it sounds like she speaks Occitan when French and Old French/Anglo-Norman when English.

 

[Bosque]

I agree that this expansion is a little cultural/diplomatic heavy. Obviously this leader wouldn't be well suited for science. I would have liked to see an American alt leader focusing on science actually. Like JFK. He's probably still too recent though, and his estate may not agree with his likeness.

Another interesting tact for an alt American science leader would be using perhaps FDR, with an ability to gain GS points for attracting Great Scientists when at war with other countries. This would depict the immigration of Einstein, von Braun, etc...

But it might seem strange to have both Roosevelts as leaders while ignoring all other Presidents and founding fathers.

 

[Al Bundy]

Glad to be right (along with many others colleagues, of course) about the one leader for two civilizations theory.
Happy also to see at last a beautiful leader. Not every female leader has to be pretty, obviously, but I was starting to wonder if it was a deliberate policy of Firaxis avoiding very pretty women... For the English Eleanor I would have chosen the white wimple, not a crown of roses. It supposed to be a more mature Eleanor, but it is ok.

Overall is a very attractive gameplay option, specially with the Hall of Fame available. Which one will do better?, I guess.

 

[Siptah]

I think the key will be figuring out how far the negative pressure reaches and whether it decays based on distance or not. The wording seems to suggest it doesn't. The negative pressure itself would be about stacking negatives, so relics, theater districts, cathedrals and Amani are all priorities. Not to mention your own positive pressure.

Are relics considered Great Works?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

When I think of culture civ I think of a civilization that has direct bonuses to generating culture and GWAMs.

She gets benefits to getting great works but they are about empire expansion.

It's like Phoenicia really. You get a lot of empire expansion mechanics that enable other victory conditions. I wouldn't call Phoenicia a science civilization because she gets easy Free Inquiries with dozens of Cothons by classical.

A civ that gets bonuses for culture is cultural, but civs that get extra benefits from cultural play are thus motivated to pursue it, at least to an extent, and can also be considered cultural as well.

 

[Ziad]

A civ that gets bonuses for culture is cultural, but civs that get extra benefits from cultural play are thus motivated to pursue it, at least to an extent, and can also be considered cultural as well.

I suppose it boils down to semantics

In that case I hereby declare Phoenicia a science civ. Move over Korea.

 

[Guynemer]

Her abilities synergize really well with England. Royal Navy Dockyards already provide +4 loyalty pressure for England, with Eleanor's ability their pressure will be even more powerful!

The caveat is that you'll need a RND *and* a Theatre Square (or a wonder like Apadana or Hermitage) to make it work.

Apadana can only be built next to the capital, though.

 

[Arent11]

So we've 4 Culture focused Civs in GS yet no Science focused Civs? I'm disappointed TBH, I really hope there is a 3rd expansion now. (with Babylon being a part of it)

Though her ability to exert more loyalty on nearby cities with more Great Works is a nice mechanic.

If only they had made the bookworm Sweden a science civ I would be happy. But no, they hate us science players Honestly, you have the whole age of reason, age of enlightenment, industrialization in Europe & what do we get? Scotland.

That is one strong ability!

I imagine it working better with France than England though

It says "great works". The ability of England is additional iron & coal resources & their harbor, while france is about wonder building. So, England would be about building theatre districts & archaeological museums, while france would be about wonder building.

The only early game advantage of England is its additional iron which might be handy for swordsmen & knight armies, apparently also for upgrades. I can't yet judge the importance of that, but until now iron was very scarce. I also feel having a half cost harbor is not bad, because it provides you with gold, which can speed up anything else you might do - including maintaining & upgrading a good army. I can't judge yet the ability to build railroads or additional bonuses to powered buildings, but since this comes late in the game, it is probably more RPGish & less important for a fast win.

So, I would probably play England for purely RPGish reasons. It's just the first actual "industrialization" themed civ. I like that & if I play clever enough I might be able to survive the early game against powerhouses like Scythia or Mongolia in multiplayer.

 

[Victoria]

I dunno about "rubbish" but rather a more difficult-to-use choice where the non-immediate benefits can pay sizable dividends when your cards are played right.

Are you a politician or something?
Did you just say that if we are clever players she is good?

 

[Onin]

Are relics considered Great Works?

I wondered the same thing but then noticed that in the video they were clearly placing emphasis on relics which suggests to me that they get the boost.

Checked and it counts the great works as 10 which includes relics. So early relics are boss which means England and France now have a leader that will emphasize religion. Makes Cathedrals a legit choice.

 

[Eramas]

E P I Q U E

It's-A Me, Eleanor!

 

[Ziad]

Are you a politician or something?
Did you just say that if we are clever players she is good?

I think the general idea is that she has higher potential than many other civilizations if played right, and I'm inclined to agree. More cities is always good and she gets bonuses to getting more of them peacefully. And ultimately effects that shake up the status quo like loyalty can take others completely off-guard and force them to play on your terms.

 

[Tomice]

Certainly a good looking leader model, well done!

I also really like how she synergizes with France. Conquering the world without violence, but through the charms of a Disney Princess is certainly a novelty
The spy bonus from CdM always seemed a bit unrelated to the other bonuses France has.

I do feel that England loses too much without Pax Brittanica. It somehow cuts the colonization theme in half, and RND's are much weaker without free units.
"Workshop of the world" should probably have been Victoria's bonus, so that the naval theme is fully kept when Eleanor leads Britain.

 

[Victoria]

Are relics considered Great Works?

Nope

 

[Giskler]

Boring.

 

[Jkchart]

Are you a politician or something?
Did you just say that if we are clever players she is good?

I wasn't trying to be offensive, Victoria. I apologize - I wasn't trying to imply CivFanatics don't know how to play the game well. I was just trying to say there's probably a roundabout way to make use of these mechanics.