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Embassy establishment ... Hostile Act ???

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Multi-Team Demogame' started by fe3333au, Sep 1, 2006.

  1. Daghdha

    Daghdha Absent Minded

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    No further comment needed :p

    Opening an embassy is opening an embassy. Period.
    If you sign peace for N-turns you stay cool for N-turns and blame yourself for doing it if it turns out it wasn't the wisest thing to do. You don't deal w it by declaring war and thus breaking the treaty. With your kind of logic one could for example say that another nation was having nukes and intended to use them, then go declare war on them just because you think you're right, and that would be silly right?
    When you use your opinion as measure, you're out on thin ice. We could have erased the whole greek nation way back if we hade reasoned that way.....just to remind you of why you exist :goodjob:
     
  2. BCLG100

    BCLG100 Music Master

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    Aye there is...

    Thats why i havn't brought up my feelings on the matter until others brought it up.

    i think that you (team MIA) are in the wrong but as we dont have a rule that states (you cant declare war to nullify an embassy) then there isnt much to do about it
     
  3. classical_hero

    classical_hero In whom I trust

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    There is in game action that can be taken against us for this act, but who is willing to do that?
     
  4. azzaman333

    azzaman333 meh

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    It suddenly makes sence why KISS and Nut members are annoyed with MIA's decision to "close the embassy". They can no longer leech off MIA's technological advantage by stealing techs. (which means they were planning to steal techs.)


    EDIT: It occurred to me at this very moment that the Nuts have not even attempts to explain the planting of an embassy in MIA lands. This just give more evidence to the theory that Nuts were planning to steal technologies.
     
  5. General_W

    General_W Councilor & Merlot Noble

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    Anyone ever played the board game “Diplomacy” ?
    It’s very fun.

    Anyway – when playing that game, nothing makes me more upset than when someone stabs me in the back right before I was planning on stabbing them in the back. Especially if they beat me to it by 1 turn! :lol:

    So I make them pay by complaining loud and long about how dishonorable they are. (Knowing full well that we’d both be in the reverse position [me being the backstabber and them being the complainer] if they had just waited a turn!)

    Then when it’s all over, we have a good laugh about the game.

    Now, I’m not trying to suggest that with an inevitable war looming it’s even remotely suspicious to switch off your science and go to 100% economy and then establish an embassy with the tech leader… [/Sarcasm] but I do hope that when this game is over we can all have a good laugh at the insane positions we twisted ourselves into in pursuit of victory in this great game.
     
  6. donsig

    donsig Low level intermediary

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    I doubt many in this lot have. One look at the rules for this MTDG and you can see they are the antithesis of Diplomacy. In this game's rules there is a large emphasis on not deceiving other teams. Diplomacy's rules say flat out that lying to opponents does not break the rules of the game. BTW it's a good game to play via e-mail nowadays. The mechanics are simple and it all comes down to whether or not you can out *negotiate* your rivals. Most games are played through computer adjudicators so the player's identities are unknown to each other. So you never know if the guy promising you a fair share of the spoils is the same guy how stabbed you mercifully a few games back. We don't have that luxury here and I've already seen how people can remain upset even with teammates long after the fact. That takes away some of the fun.
     
  7. Whomp

    Whomp Keep Calm and Carry On Retired Moderator

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    I guess the disappointment comes from the righteousness that was displayed. No worries though it's just a game. My dad did the same thing in monopoly by manipulating my sister against me. Payback was backgammon and for real cash. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. ;)

    Good luck MIA.
     
  8. Butterball

    Butterball Bear

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    Talk about "righteousness." Whomp, get over it. You're right, it is just a game & you got your payback. I didn't know you were still harboring those hostilities. Maybe it just proves that you were better than your dad.

    By the way son, Happy birthday.
    BB
     
  9. Whomp

    Whomp Keep Calm and Carry On Retired Moderator

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    I can't hide from you. :lol:
    Did I mention how I crushed my dad in strat-o-matic baseball too?
    Thanks Dad. I love you, man. :cry:
     
  10. General_W

    General_W Councilor & Merlot Noble

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    Happy Birthday Whomp!

    :beer:

    (And don't get me started on Monopoly... what a great game... but boy I hate to lose at it...)

    ...


    ...

    ...this one time, this fool of an opponent I was playing traded me the cards I need to lock up the orange and red monopolies in exchange for Boardwalk and Park Place... common noob mistake that I gleefully took advantage of... till I landed on BoardWalk with 4 houses, then on the very next turn went past GO, landed on Chance... "advance token to Boardwalk" now with a hotel... shortest game of monopoly I ever played... :mad: ... to a total novice!!!

    ... like I said... :blush:
     
  11. donsig

    donsig Low level intermediary

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    That's what happens in dice games. That's why Diplomacy is such a great game. You never lose armies and navies because of die rolls or the RNG.
     
  12. Butterball

    Butterball Bear

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    Oh yeah ... well how have you been doing in Fantisy Football??? Especially last year???

    Good luck in the draft this evening.

    And, I don't remember Strat-o-Matic being as brutal as backgammon. I won a few there buddy.
    BB
     
  13. Nobody

    Nobody Gangster

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    We established our embassy so that our ambassador had some where to live and you greeks had some where to send your letters.
     
  14. Robi D

    Robi D Minister of (Dis)Order

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    I could put a dozen quotes here but i think people can work out what i am answering.

    Going to war is a hostile act period. In no terms can this be seen as non-aggression. Establishing an embassy is not justification for doing so, no matter which way you look at it. I don't remember you going to war when KISS did the same thing arounf turn 60.

    As to the comments that it must have been hostile since we cut all trade ties, is also rubbish. We cut our trade ties with MIA because we found out they were full of BS. Given Fe's comments about dealing with the dark side (which he snipped afterwards) and MIA's quick defeat of KISS we had reason to worry. We built the embassy to see what they had, simple as that. By establishing the embassy it gave MIA the same oppertunity to look at us. As for the accusation that we were stealing technology, i would like to see the proof. Had we tried to do so we would have broken the treaty and MIA would have justification for going to war, even the game gives you that option. But unlike some teams we uphold treaties, even the spirit of treaties, we don't look for loopholes.

    We found out MIA were support TNT who we were at war with, while not only having a treaty with us, but wanting to make it a permanant arrangement for the rest of the game. That is why we cut our trade deals and did not wish to renew any treaties. Why would we want to deal with someone who was lying to us. Fe says its good game strategy, which it might be from his point of view, but lying and exploiting others isn't going to win you friends in the long term.

    Donsig, your right diplomacy isn't always about being fair, but your wrong as to why so many people are annoyed. It is not because MIA were underhanded in their dealings with others, by all means good for them if they can get away with that. What is annoying is that they have been caught out but insist how innocent they are and how they have been completely honourable, which is plain and clear (and self admitted by fe in one of his posts) utter BS. Just spare us the crap, and get on the game. You have no friends because of your underhanded dealing and now you have to live with it.

    Finally you get to stay in your phoney war as the admins have said its not against the rules, that phoney wars are only about WW not embassies. I wonder how quickly you will run to the admins when the WW start to cripple you because we wont be signing peace. Although i don't see how you could get them to make us go to peace since you started the phoney war yourselfs.

    Good luck with the rest of the game as you will get nothing further from us.
     
  15. azzaman333

    azzaman333 meh

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    Well, we dont want peace with you.

    When your civ is running 0% science, it is plainly obvious that you are going to be stealing technologies from us.
     
  16. Robi D

    Robi D Minister of (Dis)Order

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    I can remember a lot of turns we ran 0% science and didn't go around stealing technologies. I guess when you go around deceiving everyone you get paranoid its going to happen to you.
     
  17. azzaman333

    azzaman333 meh

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    MIA has been paranoid since day 1. :shifty:
     
  18. General_W

    General_W Councilor & Merlot Noble

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    What a great game!! :lol:

    :) :)

    This may be outstripping the passion I've seen from people even over really long games of Axis and Allies!

    I think it takes a great game to get people this worked up.

    Well played everyone!
    :salute:
     
  19. peter grimes

    peter grimes ...

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    Well, Robi, you'll probably be happy to know that the recent elections in MIA have swept a different slate of people into the offices of control. Fe is no longer handling matter of State. Chamnix is no longer our President :eek:, and GB isn't in control of the rampaging military. The voters have spoken, and a sea change took effect with the end of turn 180.

    I'm the new Foreign Minister for MIA. I will respond to all sincere questions anyone from the other teams ask. But I won't respond to personal attacks or accusations, as I think we've all read enough of those.

    I'd prefer that we leave the issues of dishonor and embassies and broken treaties behind us, but if people want to continue the discussion, I'll cooperate as much as I can.
     
  20. Daghdha

    Daghdha Absent Minded

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    I like this post. I like the opportunity to get worked up without actually doing anyone any harm. Let's enjoy this and allow each other to get :mad:.
    The MIA (mis)dealings will indeed have impact on how I look upon the Greeks as civvers, but in no way on my opinion on the persons behind the nicks. I'm sure you are great guys, but nevertheless you are dishonest liars and treaty breakers that will go down bad in the history of Meleet :sheep:

    Edit: Regarding the change in MIA office and the attempt of showing a new "gentle" face......... Good Luck PG
    :rotfl:
     

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