Embassy to Team Sirius

With our civs so close together we are likely going to be competing to bottle each other up. It would be great if they let us expand quickly and still do a good tech treaty with us - but I expect that competition for land will make us early rivals. While they will still have a powerful base on their home island - controlling the core land mass will be key to this game.

Lets still talk about peace with them as they would be a great tech partner - all I am saying is that we need to seriously consider stabbing them in the back as a potential option. The teams that grab the most land on the main land mass early in the game are going to be the winners.
 
I'm too lazy to read all of these long posts, but have we gotten any messages from them?
 
I'm too lazy to read all of these long posts, but have we gotten any messages from them?

From now on you can always check the second post of this and the other embassy threads for links to communication we have sent or received from our opponent. This way you don't have to wade through all of the debate to find what was actually said. Our communications should be very accessible to all, as they are extremely important to our success in diplomacy.
 
I want to get out a message to Sirius today. We both settled cities this turn and he has already teched Writing. We want to presumably request Open Borders and see if they're teching Alphabet.

I will write up a draft in a little bit. Feel free to weigh in on the decisions we have to make regarding tech trading, OB, NAP, etc. because if we want to have a poll we should put it up quickly. Feel free to draw up some language too if you feel like it, then we'll all work to make it better and make sure we're saying what the team wants.
 
What could we offer if they are going for alpha now? Do they have sailing yet? I guess we could hold off on wheel and pottery and wait to trade for them - but I would like to have some granaries. If we do hold off on these techs we could offer to tech masonry/mono (with a tech lead they can easily pick up CoL and then Mono helps due to having OR as a civic). More likely would be us teching archery/iron. I like this idea as it give us military techs they will certainly need and will want to trade for.

I think OB is a great idea. Though I don't think either team would want to sail around the other teams island we could suggest it.

I suspect they are going to go for an early library and Great Scientist. This will further give them a further tech lead but may give us more opportunity to city spam.
 
I should probably ask this question before assuming. When we have a tech trading alliance do we give each other all of our techs or just most?
 
Best thing to do would be to send a letter congradulating them on teching Writing and asking directly if they will pursue Alpha next so that we can trade. Let them follow up so that this is a dialogue, not us just dictating things to them.

Follow this up with an in game request for OB. We should not ask for something in-game before mentioning it in Diplo first though as LP has already said that this annoys him.

If they accept OB then we can draft and send the first part of the treaty... a formal non-aggression pact (NAP). Hopefully they will respond that they want a tech alliance where we share all tech.
 
The second Sirian city is called Canopus, which is also a star. So their cities will be named after stars. I noticed something interesting about this though. I was looking up "Canopus" and it said it was the second brightest star in the night sky after Sirius. So this could be their rubric for city naming. A list of brightest stars can be found here.

If this is their naming method then their next city should be Rigil Kentaurus, although that name is kind of long and unwieldy.
 
Can't wait until they get to Betelgeuse.
 
Here's what I wrote up as a draft to send to Sirius. Please read it and comment on anything that should maybe be changed. We want to get this out as soon as possible.

Greetings again to the Sirians.

Congratulations on the founding of Canopus. I'm sure it will be a shining beacon of civilization for many millennia. Things have been well for the people of The AMAZON and recently founded a new city of our own, although we've had to cancel our plans to build a circle of rocks due to some issues with international copyright laws on large structures.

The AMAZON agrees that it is fortunate that we met so soon and that by working closely together both of our peoples will prosper. We should act as quickly as diplomatically possible to take advantage of our chance early meeting.

We have heard rumors that the Sirian people have invented and started using symbols to represent speech. We think this is an important discovery and that it could be utilized to increase trade between our nations. Now that you have discovered Writing, we would like to enter into an open borders agreement with you. We think that it would benefit both of our peoples and from your earlier correspondence we seem to agree on this. To that end we have offered open borders in-game.

The peoples of The AMAZON are favorably disposed towards a non-aggression pact with our new friends, the Sirians, as soon as we can work out the terms. We hope to get a proposal hammered out and sent to you in short order. Feel free to send us any proposals that you have come up with.

We would also like to confirm our interest in trading technologies with you as soon as an Alphabet system can be discovered to aid in the transfer of scientific discoveries. We were wondering if you planned on teching Alphabet next after Writing or if you had other more pressing technological needs. Either way we are looking forward to the day when we can start sharing our discoveries with each other. More needs to be discussed concerning this, and the sooner we can work out some kind of tech trading agreement the better we can coordinate our efforts.

Hopefully we can take the first step towards a strong partnership with an open borders agreement and continue to work towards a NAP and a tech trading agreement.

Sincerely yours,
SilentConfusion, AMAZON diplomat

I thought it no harm to tell them of our new city since they already undoubtedly know about it and can see it in our diplo screen. I also thought that maybe telling of missing SH might lead them to share information. If not that it could be used as a reason to hesitate (not that I think we should) in naming our tech path if we needed one. We can say we were forced to reevaluate. I think we should very soon come up with a longer term tech plan that takes possible tech trades into consideration. This information will need to be given to Sirius to ensure them we will have something to trade them.

The quick action comment, aside from being true that we could loss an advantage if we don't act quickly enough, echoes their own words showing that we agree with them, but also hopefully derails anyone potentially saying that AMAZONs take too long making decisions. I think we as a team are possibly stereotyped as going to be slow deciding and not as efficient to deal with. I hope we can dispel this stereotype. The comment in no way hurts and it might help.

For some reason I don't like the way this sentence sounds: "Now that you have discovered Writing, we would like to enter into an open borders agreement with you." Any one who can think of a better way to say that let me know. Or if everyone thinks it sounds fine, let me know that too. Sometimes it sounds different in your head. We would of course offer OB in game right after having sent this message.

As for the NAP paragraph... I put that "Feel free to send any proposals that you have come up with." to not come over as though we are trying to dictate the terms, but when I read it it sounds like we're giving them permission to send us proposals, which is exactly the opposite effect I was going for. Any ideas on this?

For the tech trading paragraph I was trying to ask about Alphabet without needing to give away our tech plans (because I don't know what they are). I think it came out sounding pretty good. We need to come up with some kind of multi-tech plan soon so we can continue tech trading talks.

I think we want to be somewhat deferential with Team Sirius. LP seems to be sensitive to good manners and I think if we appear to be trying to direct the whole relationship that could put them off. We need to encourage and listen to their suggestions and make it clear that we are listening to their suggestions, while we get as much of what we want as possible. Best case scenario is we can get them to suggest what would be best for us. Then we can graciously accept their suggestion giving deference to their wisdom while reaping the maximum reward.

Please let me know quickly what you think about the letter and any proposed changes. No criticism is too harsh. This is for our team. It needs to be right.
 
We want to get this out as soon as possible. I think we as a team are possibly stereotyped as going to be slow deciding and not as efficient to deal with.
I agree. Bottom line, is we should send this out right away as-written, and request OB in-game right after. Better to get a good letter out today than a perfect letter out in 3 days... We have no way of knowing if they already sent out a wb in the opposite direction :cringe:
I thought it no harm to tell them of our new city ... missing SH ... We can say we were forced to reevaluate.
Agreed... The more info we share, the more friendly our relations will be. Always share useless/readily available info whenever possible. I also like the point of using it as an excuse not to tell them what we are teching.
I think we want to be somewhat deferential with Team Sirius... we can get them to suggest what would be best for us. Then we can graciously accept their suggestion giving deference to their wisdom while reaping the maximum reward.
Exactly right. We are siezing the advantage by leading them to the result that we want, without telling them what to do.
 
I would agree that it makes sense to share info on our dashed hope of getting SH in city #2.

I would include an ask about how long until they can get alpha. That way we could indicate optimum tech sharing plans for the future. Then we can also respond that by date XXX we will have the following techs for you (XXX, sailing, YYYY) without mentioning that we are currently teching sailing.
 
Made some changes. Fixed some things. I will send this out shortly, unless there are objections.

@damnrunner: tried to add a bit that asks more directly, though (I think) not too directly, about Alphabet. By the next letter hopefully we'll have a tech plan to share. Hopefully their answer to the Alphabet question will help us make our plan.

Greetings again to the Sirians.

Congratulations on the founding of Canopus. I'm sure it will be a shining beacon of civilization for many millennia. Things have been well for the people of The AMAZON and recently founded a new city of our own, although we've had to cancel our plans to build a circle of rocks due to some issues with international copyright laws on large structures.

The AMAZON agrees that it is fortunate that we met so soon and that by working closely together both of our peoples will prosper. We should act as quickly as diplomatically possible to take advantage of our chance early meeting.

We have heard rumors that the Sirian people have invented and started using symbols to represent speech. We think this is an important discovery and that it could be utilized to increase trade between our nations. Now that you have discovered Writing, we suggest that we open borders with each other. We think that it would benefit both of our peoples and from your earlier correspondence we seem to agree on this. To that end we have offered open borders in-game.

The peoples of The AMAZON are favorably disposed towards a non-aggression pact with our new friends, the Sirians, as soon as we can work out the terms. We hope to get a proposal hammered out and sent to you in short order. We are also looking forward to hearing your ideas on this.

We would also like to confirm our interest in trading technologies with you as soon as an Alphabet system can be discovered to aid in the transfer of scientific discoveries. We were wondering if you planned on teching Alphabet next after Writing or if you had other more pressing technological needs. Either way we are looking forward to the day when we can start sharing our discoveries with each other. It would help if we knew approximately how long it will take to discover Alphabet as then we would know what we needed to tech for ourselves and what we can get via trade. The fewer techs we have to double tech the better. More needs to be discussed concerning this, and the sooner we can work out some kind of tech trading agreement the better we can coordinate our efforts.

Hopefully we can take the first step towards a strong partnership with an open borders agreement and continue to work towards a NAP and a tech trading agreement.

Sincerely yours,
SilentConfusion, AMAZON diplomat

Changed:
"Now that you have discovered Writing, we would like to enter into an open borders agreement with you." to this sentence: "Now that you have discovered Writing, we suggest that we open borders with each other."

"Feel free to send us any proposals that you have come up with." to this sentence: "We are also looking forward to hearing your ideas on this."

Added this to the tech trading paragraph: "It would help if we knew approximately how long it will take to discover Alphabet as then we would know what we needed to tech for ourselves and what we can get via trade. The fewer techs we have to double tech the better."
 
It's fine... I say send it. I really like the way you beginn paragraphs with "We" instead of "You". Makes everythign sound more friendly. I will log in now and offer OB.

One possible correction in BOLD

Congratulations on the founding of Canopus. I'm sure it will be a shining beacon of civilization for many millennia. Things have been well for the people of The AMAZON and we recently founded a new city of our own, although we've had to cancel our plans to build a circle of rocks due to some issues with international copyright laws on large structures.
Not a big deal at all, just an FYI.

I also think this would sound a little less pushy:
If you are indeed planning to pursue Alphabet, It would help if we knew approximately how long it will take to discover it, as then we would better know what we needed to tech to best facillitate trade. The fewer techs we have to double tech the better. More needs to be discussed concerning this, and the sooner we can work out some kind of tech trading agreement the better we can coordinate our efforts.
 
@ Sommerswerd: I like both of those changes. Thanks.

Will send it out with those changes and post when sent.
 
Here's what was sent to the Sirians on T39 to be accompanied by the offering of OB:

Greetings again to the Sirians,

Congratulations on the founding of Canopus. I'm sure it will be a shining beacon of civilization for many millennia. Things have been well for the people of The AMAZON and we recently founded a new city of our own, although we've had to cancel our plans to build a circle of rocks due to some issues with international copyright laws on large structures.

The AMAZON agrees that it is fortunate that we met so soon and that by working closely together both of our peoples will prosper. We should act as quickly as diplomatically possible to take advantage of our chance early meeting.

We have heard rumors that the Sirian people have invented and started using symbols to represent speech. We think this is an important discovery and that it could be utilized to increase trade between our nations. Now that you have discovered Writing, we suggest that we open borders with each other. We think that it would benefit both of our peoples and from your earlier correspondence we seem to agree on this. To that end we have offered open borders in-game.

The peoples of The AMAZON are favorably disposed towards a non-aggression pact with our new friends, the Sirians, as soon as we can work out the terms. We hope to get a proposal hammered out and sent to you in short order. We are also looking forward to hearing your ideas on this.

We would also like to confirm our interest in trading technologies with you as soon as an Alphabet system can be discovered to aid in the transfer of scientific discoveries. We were wondering if you planned on teching Alphabet next after Writing or if you had other more pressing technological needs. If you are indeed planning to pursue Alphabet, it would help if we knew approximately how long it will take to discover it, as then we would better know what we needed to tech to best facilitate trade. The fewer techs we have to double tech the better. More needs to be discussed concerning this, and the sooner we can work out some kind of tech trading agreement the better we can coordinate our efforts.

Hopefully we can take the first step towards a strong partnership with an open borders agreement and continue to work towards a NAP and a tech trading agreement.

Sincerely yours,
SilentConfusion, AMAZON diplomat
 
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