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[R&F] Emperor and up is plain boring

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Mahi, Mar 27, 2019.

  1. Infixo

    Infixo Warlord

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    I deny. Nothing like this is neither harcoded nor „hardcoded” nor any-other-type-of-hardcoding.
    AI is programmed to evaluate situation and respond appropriately. If you, yourself, create the same situation all the time, then you get the same response all the time. „Do you know the definition of insanity?”
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2019
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  2. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

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    Yes It's hardcoded for the AI to evaluate. And the only way it can reevaluate is if your army strenght is more than half of his. Considering you have only one or two cities (at max) at the time, you can see how this quickly devlove into a mandatory army buildup. Since this happens *before* you have access to walls, there's only way to counter. This is what the OP is refering to.

    Sumeria for example (which is a really col Civ btw), doesn't have this problem, as you want donkey carts anyway.
     
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  3. Socrates99

    Socrates99 Bottoms up!

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    Ok, I do agree with the OP in that higher difficulty games do kind of pigeonhole the player but I strongly disagree with the bogus opinion that the AI is hard coded to invade early. It happens, at best, in 50% of my games. If you're experiencing it in every game you simply need to readjust your early build order. You're not building the early army necessary to spook the AI.
     
  4. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    Literally means building 1 extra warrior. Builder ---> Warrior ---> X ---> Settler is 100% safe on all maps without a early OP civ like Aztec/America next door.
     
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  5. Iberian

    Iberian Chieftain

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    I don't know what the devs can do to change things. It is like me going out to play basketball and complaining that if I don't shoot 3's well and play solid defense my team is going to lose when we play the best teams.


    Deity is playing the defending champs and you can't be scoring with alley-oop dunks over your opposition every play.

    Arguable but the first 100 turns is where the AI does the best and is most like a human opponent. Go play a multi-player game and try to go builder, settler, settler, district. I bet you will find you are looking for a new game before you get to t100.

    Emperor requires some units or at least some diplomacy, King and below you can almost always get by with no prebuilding of units and just a little scouting to see if they are heading your way. This way the Devs can have a tough game for those want it and a fun game for others.

    The real shame is the turns 200-300 where the AI is beyond stupid and can't win a game to save its life even on Deity and the ability to use its military is far below most casual Civ players.
     
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  6. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    For players that are trying, military has been the dominant consideration in every mainline Civ game without exception.
     
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  7. Socrates99

    Socrates99 Bottoms up!

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    Right, and anyone who disagrees needs to go back and try III or IV again. V is the only iteration I can remember that discourages expansion and allows for "builder civs" but even in that game you couldn't let your "pointy sticks" score fall too far behind your opponents without getting rolled.
     
  8. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Also even in 5, if someone was "winning" without the military to show for it, convincing the game otherwise was a few clicks away...
     
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  9. ZeroSuitSenpai

    ZeroSuitSenpai Chieftain

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    This just...isn't true. I've won countless emperor games in which I never went to war / took cities at all.
     
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  10. MooFreaky

    MooFreaky Meatbag Destroyer

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    I think Emperor is actually the sweet spot for varied play. You can still get pretty much any wonder you want (not always, but you can compete) - I get Stonehenge frequently on Emperor for example. I have taken to cruising about trying to evaluate my Empire based on its time period and what is best for the Empire, rather than the game. If I have the education governor in a city, you can bet I'm focusing science there almost at all costs because that's what a science governor would do.
    Even with that total lack of efficiency I am generally way ahead of everyone else. If my neighbours are aggressive, I will fight back but often we have friendly relations and war won't occur at all in a game (or rarely if it does).
     
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  11. Brian LeClaire

    Brian LeClaire Chieftain

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    No you just comment on them and still slide it in anyway lol
     
  12. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    I can play a game on emperor, never be attacked and get an alliance with everyone, and more often than you think. This concept of you must attack early is just wrong. The choice is yours, if you do not want to send delegations then that is your choice. If you cannot be bothered pandering to their agendas and using that knowledge wisely then you are indeed just playing a warmonger game and have not appreciated this game truly has great variation and choice. The is no high horse here, just many many hours of gameplay and understanding every mechanic as best I can.
    Diplomacy has been sadly ignored and us still there buried underneath grievance and still works.
    The AI is NOT harcoded to attack you as soon as it finds you, that is twaddle and I know because not only have I experienced ways around this misconception but so have others.
    Look at all those disagreeing with you and just try a different way, you may suddenly find yourself not bored.
    The fastest CV'sv are peaceful ones done on deity ... note that... peaceful deity... it can be done.
     
  13. Aristos

    Aristos Lightseeker

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    I won a Deity game all standard with FIVE cities, SV no less. Anything can be done in this game.
     
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  14. Mahi

    Mahi Chieftain

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    You guys are not reading the context of the post. It's not about war, it's about a blant and repetitive start on the said difficulties and maps.. Not about if you can win the game or not. I can win SV on emperor as well with only five cities. That's not the point.
     
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  15. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    I am not sure how I have missed the context.
    What is a repetitive start? I do not repeat much, I play variety and it can be done.
    For example, I will use any governor as my first, it all depends on what I want to do and how I feel. Quite unrepetitive.
    I can sword rush, horse rush, warrior rush, archer rush, galley rush, quad rush. I can become an early owner of Rapa Nui and get 100 culture per turn by T60. So many CS choices.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2019
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  16. MooFreaky

    MooFreaky Meatbag Destroyer

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    So what is the repetitive bit?
    On Emperor especially you can do basically anything you want and be fine. You can go for early military expansion, you can rush culture, rush wonders, rush religion. You can literally do a little bit of everything. You can roleplay your Civilization. I literally cannot think of a single style of play or option that is not available on Emperor.
    Immortal limits you more, and Deity even more so. But they still have many options, it's just that some of the particularly inefficient ones become tough, or if you are chasing some of the earliest wonders.

    Yes there are limited options if you want to play 100% efficient, but just choosing to play that efficiently is an option in itself and far from a requirement.

    Perhaps if you could expand on the limited options you are referring to then it would be helpful. What are you finding you cannot do on Emperor?
    Or give us an example start that you would do that doesn't work, or something. Right now it is very vague. You have access to some very good players here who I'm sure can help get to the bottom of whatever issues there are.
     
  17. Casualty of war

    Casualty of war Chieftain

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    It's just a crazy good return on investment if I take my 400 Hammer army and go capture 4000 Hammers worth of stuff. That's the temptation of war. It's always been the temptation of war.

    You can avoid or bypass war and still cruise to victory. The AI won't attack unless they feel they outclass your military dramatically or, now, Grievances have stacked up; they might scowl at you but they won't attack unless it's an expected curbstomping. Build enough units so that no neighbors in the vicinity have twice your military score, and check your military score often! On higher levels the AI starts with more than twice your military strength so get to work making units.

    When conducting a trade, and you get to the max they will give or take, overpay or give them a kickback so they think it's a favorable deal. Give them a fat payment/bribe and call it Foreign Aid; it's the only reason why any nations pretend to like the US and are willing to take our phone calls. Get that embassy in there right away and, if you can, try to have your first meeting occur with a non-threatening unit; the best Scout in the game is a Monumentality Builder with one charge left.

    There are ways to exploit the AI's aggression too. Get God of War pantheon and taunt them into attacking within 8 hexes of your Holy Site (or theirs); it can amount to an enormous pile of Faith and you also know where the archeological sites will be in the future. Two Archers in an Encampment and a walled city can hold off just about any assault, and be Level 3 at the end of it.
     
  18. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    As a final and incredibly important note on deity.

    @Trav'ling Canuck spent a huge amount of time doing tests on deity where he did nothing to win a game but just let the AI win. In every game but a couple the AI would not win before T300 and if it was before then it was a little bit.
    This feeling that you have to rush deity is a fallacy.
    And you do not have to expand. One of my first games on deity was a CV game with Sweden where I won with 6 cities and not one battle was fought in attack or defence. I also forgot to build open air museums for a while so it was not even efficient.
    Civs VI appears to have taken the approach that once you know what you are doing you can win deity with variety. This certainly was not the case with V. Many take exception with this saying deity should be hard and the general rule on deity is if you can survive past T30 you have won unless you do not concentrate enough on a VC. This thread indicates the opposite which just is not true.
    Just try a different approach, the real challenge in civ VI is getting a victory in under 200 turns.
     
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  19. japanesesamurai

    japanesesamurai Chieftain

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    I think the early game on emperor+ is actually more exciting and random than the early game in Civ V.
    I always play on tiny flat maps, tjough. With civ amount set to max. So its pretty crowded and the importancy of getting good land early on is much more of an issue, knowing that the AI starts with more settlers on higher difficulties.
    I play with real strategy mod and historical speed mod + addon for slower unit production.
     
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