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Emperor Tutorial Series II - The Fundamental CE (Monarch/Prince players welcome)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by feralminded, Feb 16, 2009.

  1. feralminded

    feralminded Obsessive Number Cruncher

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    Premise
    In our second installment of the Emperor Tutorial series we will be covering the fundamental tenets of the Cottage Economy. Our first game, The Pyramids based SE went really well so the plan is to stick to that template. The focus here is going to be less on "best ball" practices and more on step by step analysis. I do encourage people to take each save and play along to see how they do but I will be playing something of a "control" game to try and keep on task and to clearly show the strategies and tactics in use. Hopefully it's not the only game being played (and hopefully better players than me feel like contributing as well) but it's alright if I end up doing this solo. My CE is not as strong as my SE so I am not anticipating a pre-industrialism win this time but you never know. Regardless I do intend to show a safe and strong path to a CE victory at this difficulty level.


    Process
    I see this being something of an iterative process. Each segment will take roughly 3-4 days to play and discuss as outlined below:
    1. I'm going to play through some of the game and provide detailed analysis of my decisions along the way.
    2. Other people can also play along and see how far they get. The newer (to Emperor) players can try and follow along and implement the strategy I outline and see how they do compared to me. People are welcome to wildly deviate and we can discuss the merits of such an approach but the goal of the series is to stick to one economic strategy per game.
    3. We will compare/contrast/analyze the decisions made along the way. Just because I chose to do something doesn't make it "right".
    4. We will decide on a path for the next segment and then off we go to implement it.
    5. Rinse/Recycle



    The basic premise of the CE is simple. Build cottages in capital, tech CS and turn on Bureaucracy to race to Liberalism and eventually Democracy, and win. We will not be looking for a Great Lighthouse for a TRE, nor the 'mids for Representation. Early war is not out of the question though if the opportunity is there but our real focus is going to be on the economy.


    We will be playing Darius I


    You can't ask for a better/easier leader to learn CE with. Organized and Fin will take a load off when it comes to keeping a strong Rex going. His UU is in the "insanely strong" category as well. He starts with Hunting/Agriculture which is ok (I hate hunting, but Agg is good). The UB is about the only thing not worth jumping and cheering for but it's by no means weak and completely worth building everywhere once we get to it. The map is Standard/Epic. Larger and smaller maps have their charm but standard seems to fit most people's needs. Epic I find is simply more forgiving when learning.

    The first segment will play from 4000BC->1000BC and we will be looking to start the next segment Thursday evening to be played over the weekend. Please keep any discussions beyond the opening and starting strategy/goals in spoiler tags for any late comers.

    Immediate Game Goals (4000BC->1000BC):
    • Scout for a potential rush target.
    • Get either horses or metal by 2000BC for barb defense (need horses by 2500BC if rushing)
    • Start building cottages by 2000BC, sooner if possible. Prioritize river tiles.
    • Try to get a 10XP unit either fighting barbs or in the rush so we can build HE.
    • If we choose to rush we probably need to have already taken an enemy capital by 1000BC.
    • If we don't rush we should have at least 4 expansions and be blocking off territory from the AI to set up a solid Rex for the next segment.


    Here's our map. I've attached the save game. I will say right now this is a favorable map that I hand-picked to facilitate the tutorial. Its a fractal map. No huts, no events. Yes the goal was to have favorable conditions since we are learning.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Ai Shizuka

    Ai Shizuka King

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    Nice, will start this when I'm done with the Mao game.

    Amazing starting location for Darius, maybe too good. But hey, I'm not complaining.
     
  3. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Hahahaha. Irrigated corn, flood plains, and financial.
     
  4. budweiser

    budweiser King of the Beers

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    Settle on the hill or move off?
     
  5. feralminded

    feralminded Obsessive Number Cruncher

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    I swear I didn't edit the map. :)
    Again I didn't want the map working against us ... this is a tutorial series and the real lessons have less to do with the map and more to do with managing the empire through the middle ages.
     
  6. feralminded

    feralminded Obsessive Number Cruncher

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    1E. You get everything and the wine. Looks like you pickup an extra brown tile though(maybe 2 ... not sure what is SE) but you are trading a brown tile for it. I dunno. Might need the hill we're on for production. Just move the scout SE and see. I hate settling on green hills ... feels like such a waste.
     
  7. budweiser

    budweiser King of the Beers

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    Tech order?

    I think AH, then mining. Then roads and pottery and writing?

    Work in mysticism if you need border pops on city 2?

    Would you use slavery to expand or create more troops?
     
  8. feralminded

    feralminded Obsessive Number Cruncher

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    I am not sure if I want to beeline pottery here or not. If not I'm probably going to go mining->BW->Wheel->pottery. I won't go AH unless I find some animals to work or a close neighbor. I hate going AH JUST for horses.
     
  9. Alrin Kharr

    Alrin Kharr Warlord

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    I have a feeling I'm probably asking something that has been answered many times in the past but...

    When I tried to open the attached initial save, the game gave me a "Failed to uncompress data" error and crashed. Attempts to re-download the file produced the same results. Does anyone know how to fix this problem?
     
  10. feralminded

    feralminded Obsessive Number Cruncher

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    Oh really? hrm ... no one should be having this issue. Do you have the latest version of BTS?
     
  11. Alrin Kharr

    Alrin Kharr Warlord

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    Never mind, I've got everything squared away now. I just recently moved up to Emperor, and though I watched your previous game thread, I didn't play a game of my own. I've never participated in a game on these forums, and I'm looking forward to getting my feet wet. I'll try to play up to 1000 BC and post my effort sometime tomorrow. Hopefully I won't embarrass myself too badly:crazyeye:
     
  12. PaulisKhan

    PaulisKhan Physicist

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    moving east looks nice but loses two potential copper/horses tiles (I'm definitely expecting to see one of those pop up in one of those two tiles).

    However, it also gains him an extra hill, a bunch more river tiles and the wine.


    My suggestion is settle 1 east and settle your next city 1E of the sheep where it can shear the sheep and share the corn, and pick up whatever special resource pops (because I'm an optimist).
    Your capital will probably not be working the corn all the time and it's too good a tile to not have overlap on.
    It also lets your other city work two of the capitals hills mines when they're not in use (ie when re-growing the cap).
    Popping resources from a worked mine is NOT to be under-estimated and is a strategy that pays off over the long term.
     
  13. Ai Shizuka

    Ai Shizuka King

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    To 1000 BC:


    Spoiler :


    mining - bw - masonry - wheel - mysticism - ah - pottery - fishing - writing


    4000 - Scout reveals silk to the east, so I settle 1E, claiming TWO riverside silk tiles.

    3175 - At this point I have explored a big chunk of land and still no rival AIs around. So I take a detour to masonry and the GW.

    3150 - I find a wounded lion, so we are not isolated. But there is a lot of unsettled land anyway and I still head to the Great Wall.

    3050 - First AI is Mansa.

    2900 - Scout dead.

    2625 - Pasargadae founded. Forgot the screen, it's on the NE coast to claim copper/fish/pigs/marble.

    2175 - GWall done:



    1925 - Oh joy, the next AI is Shaka.

    1775 - Susa:



    1125 - Last AI of this segment is Stalin.

    Empire:




    About our goals.
    - Rush target. No way. I still don't know where they are, but the first contact was super late. So they are miles away.

    - Horse/copper. Both, and the Great Wall.

    - Cottages. Delayed pottery to build the Great Wall. Not sure if it was really necessary, but I don't like to screw around with barbs on a map like this. Persepolis is working 2 cottages at this point.

    - Unlock HE. Almost there. This immortal will get the laxt XP capturing a barb city:



    - 4 cities. Again, slow expansion to build the GW. 3 cities founded and that barb city will be captured very soon.

    I don't know if the Great Wall was worth the delay, but better safe than sorry.
    Monarchy is obviously a top priority with a capital like this.


     
  14. dualmaster

    dualmaster Emperor

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    First time at emperor....advice welcome!

    To 1150BC:
    Spoiler :

    Settled 1E.
    Build: worker>war>settler>war>worker>immortal
    Tech: mining>AH>Wheel>BW>Pot>Writing>Alpha

    Teched AH as I saw several Ah resources that would likely be in a second city, plus I wanted to look for horsies. My second city (horses) is mediocre - woulda been better 1S but I wanted horses in first ring. Also might have been better to just go BW earlier and found one of those cities to the east. My third city probably should have been to the south for blocking purposes.

    Dot map:

    Comments on city locations/settle order very welcome.
    Currently have a settler headed south to settle cyan(#1). This will help block land and can work cows immediately for growth. Yellow(#2) blocks and will be a sick commerce site eventually (all those gems!:drool:). Cities 3-5 will be powerful and closer to capital for less maint.

    Techs: Just finished alpha...

    Currently qued Currency to help with REx costs and open up CoL. Will need to trade for IW so yellow city can be productive (and connect gems).

    Progress toward 1000BC goals (though it is only 1150BC for me):
    - Had immortals well before barbs started invading
    - Have two hamlets running in capital
    - One immortal up to 8/10 xp, now hunting for barbs
    - I'm a little behind on settling

    Sure is a nice map for the move up to emp!
     
  15. PaulisKhan

    PaulisKhan Physicist

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    Spoiler :
    with respect to the dotmap, an alternative configuration to consider:

    a city on the desert hill two north of the SE copper. Irrigate the floodplains and grassland to work 4 mines+grassland copper. This will be a great production city.

    Move city #5 1 SW
    Keep barb city instead of razing itr
    Settle a city in the void opened up between Yusa, the barb city and your capital (NW of the cows looks perfect).
    Settle a city 1E of the sheep in the north to make sure that the corn and mines hills in the BFC of your capital are always being worked.

    That's 3 cities extra (and all very productive) you can fit into your empire without huge amounts of overlap =)

    Those two unclaimed bananas, fish and rice to the south all look very tasty too but you've probably got enough to do just developing the land you've already drawn out =)
     
  16. gspchamp999

    gspchamp999 Warlord

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    Glad to play your games feral, will be playin this map, thanks.
     
  17. feralminded

    feralminded Obsessive Number Cruncher

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    Here I am through 1000BC

    Spoiler :

    Well first of all I'd like to say my CE is a lot shakier than my SE but with this leader and this land there should be little to worry about. My only real gripe is hunting. I could go on and on about how much hunting sucks. Not only does the tech very rarely come in useful (and you really don't want to live on the land where it IS useful), but scouts are horrible. That said somehow by 1000BC I managed to keep mine alive but I consider that a miracle. Anyhow lets see how things went.

    I decided since the land was so good to go for the Pottery gambit. Honestly I am not sold on this being a solid strategy and doubt it works on Immortal but I've done it a couple of times now on Emperor so I decided to give it a shot. The idea is shoot wheel->pottery first before going mining->BW. This means we won't be able to find copper until the mid 2000s and can slow an initial expansion if we have super close AI's. Still as long as we are aware of these facts and account for them ... with good land ... its a hell of an opening for a CE. We just will have to dance with some barbs for a couple hundred years is all.

    I settled 1 east and was honestly disappointed when I found the silk. I consider silk to be about the worst calendar resource ... at least for a CE. Still I guess 6 :commerce: improved will be nice whenever the hell it gets around to it but I don't see my capital working those tiles for a large chunk of the game. I improved the FPs first, then mined a hill, then turned to chopping. For 4000->2500BC my tech path was Wheel->Pottery->Mining->Bronze->Mysticism. I built Worker->Warrior->Settler->Warrior (a few turns to let city grow)->Settler.

    I meet Willem very early so I know he's close and SW.


    and meet Mansa right at the time limit


    By 2500BC I was 1 turn from dropping my production city down to get some copper. I stubbornly settle for the optimum location but in retrospect probably should have settled 1 tile West of the copper ... this would have been much safer. As it was in the 2500-1000BC segment I really had some close calls with some barbs because I settled that copper outside of the BFC. This was a major mistake. Regardless here I am at 2500BC.




    From here I kind of took off pretty well. My goal was to cut off my peninsula which I got some help from some Barbs on. That said by 1000BC I really wasn't feeling any AI heat on my peninsula blocking cities so it was obvious we were very isolated up here. Lots of really nice land to expand all over. By 2025 I had down my first blocking city, settling on the hill between the gems, bananas, and rice. The barbs had already set up shop next door. I would not get a 4th city down by 1000BC, not even meeting my own goal. Neither would I get a 10XP unit. That said I would get way ahead of the AI's on tech. After finish up Mysticism I would go Fishing->AH->Writing->Alphabet->Aesthetics. Alphabet would land in 1175BC and then I would trade around for Sailing, Poly, and Masonry. I would come close to getting IW as well but no one wants to trade it ... and I still have a monopoly on Alphabet. I also would have a fairly large fogbust setup so no more barb worries.

    Here's who I met along the way




    Not entirely excited about the last two but they are already falling behind Willem, Mansa, and myself. Willem is my only neighbor and he's relatively easy to keep happy. Plus I only really have to defend two cities. Should be a cinch.

    Here's where I'm at 1000BC.




    I'm pretty much out in front techwise. I know this will fizzle out as soon as everyone gets their hands on alphabet but until then I have a lock on GLib at this point ... doubt I'll go for much of anything else wonderwise. I really need to get working on a GS soon too ... ideally I could have a GS for an academy soon, then one for Philosophy, then one for education. This is tough for a CE to pull off efficiently but we'll see. I already have the library down so it may happen but I need to push for it.


    And here's the play by play through 1000BC
    Spoiler :

    4000BC - Settle 1E, Research wheel. Start Worker
    3675BC - Finish wheel, start Pottery. Meet Willem from southwest.
    3425BC - Finish Worker, start warrior.
    3400BC - Worker starts on Corn.
    3325BC - Finish Pottery, start mining.
    3200BC - Farm done, head to FP for Cottage.
    3125BC - Starting to look like SW is only way out of here.
    3050BC - Finish Mining, start on Bronze Working.
    3000BC - Warrior finishes, start on settler. Not sure where to settle yet, maybe due south.
    2975BC - One FP cottaged, going to 2nd one.
    2925BC - Scout miracles his way to woods II ... he's almost not useless now.
    2800BC - Scout confirms we are on our own peninsula.
    2775BC - Finish cottage, head to green hills.
    2675BC - Finish BW, start on Mysticism. Copper SE, first city settling on copper/fish/wheat.
    2600BC - Finish mine, turning to the chop for settler X2 and a worker.
    2550BC - Settler finishes, turn to warrior for 4 turns to let city grow to size 4.
    2525BC - Mansa Musa makes an appearance. Also I can see Willem's tech so he must be splitting his EPs across a lot of people.
    2475BC - Find Pasagarde on Copper/Fish/Wheat. Should be all set for copper online. Finish Mysticism, start on Fishing.
    2450BC - Chop pushes out warrior and Persepolis grows to size 4, start on settler.
    2350BC - Finish Fishing, start on AH.
    2275BC - Barb city was founded near gems x3 city. Will send settler to gems/banana/rice city.
    2200BC - Settler born, start worker.
    2150BC - Worker complete's third chop, heading to Pasagarde to help with copper effort.
    2125BC - Finish AH, start on Writing.
    2075BC - Finish worker, start on warrior x2. Worker heads to chop to help.
    2050BC - Whip out monument in Pasagarde, start on boat. Copper is going to come very late.
    2025BC - Found Susa on Banana/Gems/Rice hill.
    2000BC - Meet Stalin.
    1975BC - Chop out 2nd warrior (garrison), start on worker.
    1925BC - Finish chopping in Persepolis, build another cottage.
    1825BC - Finish Writing, start on Alphabet.
    1800BC - Chop out boat and half of barracks in Pasagarde.
    1775BC - Worker is born, send to copper. Start on library.
    1575BC - Copper hooked up, whip out barracks ... should finish an axe too. Chopping last forest to help the axe effort.
    1500BC - Whip out an axe, chop should produce another.
    1375BC - Whip out Library, start on settler.
    1175BC - Get Alphabet, start Aesthetics. Meet Shaka ... lovely. Warrior born in susa, start granary. Capped at size 2 for unhealthiness. Trade writing for sailing to Mansa. Gift some minor techs to Shaka and Stalin for relations. They have IW I need.
    1025BC - Settler born, headed down to settle rice/gems. Growing Persepolis 1 size then starting on worker.
    1000BC - Still no one will give up IW. Meet Monty, trade him writing for poly. Trade Willem writing for masonry.
     

    Attached Files:

  18. gspchamp999

    gspchamp999 Warlord

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    To 1000BC
    Spoiler :


    Civ4ScreenShot0000.JPG

    Civ4ScreenShot0001.JPG


    Went a little different direction than the other two people who posted their saves.

    I wanted to block off the AI ASAP and after founding my copper city, I made it my priority to get the two southern cities.

    I currently only have two axeman, but just got a barracks built in my copper city. Planning on mining that city up for more axeman until my more efficient production cities are up and running.

    Have three cottages at capital, one of which will be a village in 4 turns.

    Researched Mining - BW - Myst - Wheel - Writing.
    After writing I was unsure of the best next move. It was a toss up between IW, alpha, and even aesthetics. The only reason I thought about aethetics is because we used that for trade bait last game and because of all the marble around, which would make for a fast wonder. However, I was unsure as to which wonder would be needed and I'm hoping I can trade alpha/writing around for AH/Fishing/IW.

    Have 4 workers. Monument built in South city. After granary built in South West city will whip a monument.

    I hope to pop a level 4 unit from attacks on the two barb cities.

    As far as the order and how many new cities there will be, I havent given much though.

    View attachment Corrosion BC-1000.CivBeyondSwordSave
     
  19. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    After pulling that all nighter to write those 3000 words a few days ago, I still wasn't feeling right yesterday so my shadows were slow and sluggish. I'll probably do a bit better tonight (time permitting) or tomorrow! This one looks pretty appealing.
     
  20. feralminded

    feralminded Obsessive Number Cruncher

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    I'm not happy with my city placement.

    Spoiler :

    The more I think about it today the more its eating me up where I put my copper city. I hope people realize that the "right" place was 1W of the copper. I *barely* survived to get my axes out because I had to pop my border and get the mine up in time and I had archers and warriors flooding me. All of that would have been cleanly mitigated with a proper city placement.

    I survived but it was too close and not appropriate for a tutorial game. I'm contemplating restarting although I'm not sure I have that in me.
     

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