Empress Cathy: Help Me Set My Goals!

[Gwaja]

@michmbk,

Now that I got to where you are....

From your screen shot, I see that St. Pete is like way down there.... what made you build your 2nd city over there? It's not like there is any resource there either. Or were you just trying to block G. Khan?

 

[Gwaja]

@manaballs,

I looked at your 25 AD save. It looks like you are just now getting into war mode? I am actually at that point myself where I need to devote to whether peaceful teching or immediate war mode. I am actually late to the party than you in terms of getting Construction and Horseback Riding and such.

 

[manaballs]

Spoiler :

Yea man, by 500 ad i had about 9 phants 4 horse archers and 8 catapults. trick is to rape the AI's face before he gets longbows. Don't be scared to whip the crap out of your cities and turn the science slider to 0. I rex 8 cities this map all have decent food. I didn't bother to farm anything and cottaged everything. with 8 cities u can whip a pretty decent sized army and can't forget stables. Off the bat my phants got one star and plus dmg to melee for annoying spearman. Even vs spearman i had a 70% chance to win fights nothing could stop me.

 

[shyuhe]

Here's my 25 AD save. You can see I'm about to eliminate Elizabeth. Tech pace is horrible but it doesn't really matter at this point.

 

[Gwaja]

@manaballs,

Spoiler :

If I were to do elephants and catapults war, most definitely preferable before longbows show up. I am thinking though that my time frame may have passed, and that I may have to wait until rifles or cossacks. I want to try VoiceOfUnreason's Globe Theatre trick with Hereditary Rule eventually though.

You kinda addressed an issue that I am always scared of: whipping massively. Now if things go bad, I am gonna pay and burn dearly, but if I can at least get rid of one AI, it will be well worth it.

@shyuhe,

OMG! LOL! Wow... just a quick glance and this is like... game over. ^_^

I am gonna study your save a bit more thoroughly now. ^_^
Thanks for providing me the save!

 

[liquid150]

oops...why can't i delete posts? was trying to make a new thread.

 

[michmbk]

@michmbk,

Now that I got to where you are....

From your screen shot, I see that St. Pete is like way down there.... what made you build your 2nd city over there? It's not like there is any resource there either. Or were you just trying to block G. Khan?

It was good cottage land, and I thought I would also get a spot near where Genghis settled Samarqand in between. If I had been able to settle that spot, I would have blocked off a healthy amount of land to backfill a couple of cities in between. So that ended up backfiring a bit. If my plan had worked and I got the spot I was eyeing where Genghis settled, I would have probably had 9-10 cities vs. the 7 I ended up with.

I tend to settle aggressively when I can, to try to claim as much land to backfill later. On emperor, I know I can get away with it. I ended up finishing this game last night - didn't really take screens as I kind of forgot, but was basic cannon/musket/rifle destruction of Alex & Genghis and then upgrades to infantry/artillery to cap Saladin & Cyrus. I was so far ahead in tech when I started warring I was pretty much able to run the slider at 30% culture, so I never had to really stop warring with anyone - war weariness was never a problem.

 

[Gwaja]

Okay, diplomatic situation is starting to give me headache!

First off, I decided that I was probably too late to wage elephants/catapults war, as two of the civs already had Feudalism, and the rest all could be researching it as we speak. I don't want to put my economy on hold producing these units, only to be stomped by longbows. If I wanted to do this, I should have committed to this much earlier.

So, I went the peaceful route for now, as highlighted previously.

First, I went ahead and contacted Sal:

Spoiler :

I am giving up a lot, but really, it isn't that bad. Since I've been delaying the Great Library, it is best to get this up and going ASAP. Getting the Parthenon finished would be great too. And since I wasn't sure which religion side I would join (Apostolic Palace hasn't been built yet, and I preferred to wait until then), I wanted to get this trade with Sal before there is any chance of getting more demerits with him.

Now you can't quite see in that screen shot, but Cyrus is plotting war. He is the 3rd one from the top on the scoreboard with the fist. I now realized at this point, that Cyrus is most likely west of Genghis and most likely be plotting war against him.

Soon, Genghis and Hammy made peace, though the war between Alex and Hammy waged on. Alex actually managed to take Hammy's 2nd city too. He's lost a bit of a foothold in this dogpile.

Meanwhile, I found my 8th and final city where I previously marked it with "A" on the last set of screen shots. This city will be acting as my border city to guard Moscow and most likely be able to grab some land with culture push now that Hammy's 2nd city is in Alex's hand, which means it's got pathetic culture.

Then with me 1 turn away from Code of Laws, Confucianism was founded in the distant land. Then lo and behold, Cyrus converts to Confucianism!! Great... more headache headed my way.

Meanwhile, Sal is trying to befriend me or make me another of his heathen enemy by making this demand:

Spoiler :

I refused. Again, this is just too much headache at this point. I don't want to convert to any religions yet, even though it is not helping me make any friends. Now that the only "Pleased" AI, Cyrus, is running Confucianism, it is not much prettier.

But... before I sent him off his way, I decided to make another trade:

Spoiler :

I don't need Monarchy because of the Pyramids, but it is a prerequisite tech for Feudalism. Since I knew that by going straight beelining for Liberalism means that I will most likely not be teching Monarchy myself, I thought I might as well make this trade while I can.

Circa 425AD: I get a great news!... or maybe 2 great news actually!!

Spoiler :

Both wonders in 1 turn! It was actually a gamble because I erected the Great Library in the fish/corn coastal city where I knew that it had to be my GP farm. Whipping out a library and putting the overflow into the Great Library, as well as a couple of forest chops plus another chop on a forest that spawned miraculously, I was able to get it out. Now that city is getting National Epic, while I still have marble. The Parthenon is only going to help me with the GP points. I better make this work.

Diplo:

Spoiler :

This is at the end of the turn where my save point is at. It will change next turn though, as I will explain later in this post. For now, the dogpile war against Hammy is over, as both Alex and Genghis have made peace with him. Still, the relations between Alex/Genghis and Hammy are still very bad, as well as the relations between Liz and Sal, the founders of the two competing religions.

You can also see that Cyrus is now annoyed with Genghis... and he's been plotting war. And that is music to my ears. ^_^

Deals:

Spoiler :

I reopened borders with Liz a few turns back. Notice I am giving Alex one of my cows for nothing. He can have it for now. I can always cancel it, but I don't want any more headaches having to deal with this psychopath so I will try to keep him happy.

Resources:

Spoiler :

Again, nothing to trade. The only thing useful going on is the marble deal with Sal. And I don't want to give away my elephant resource. Not in a gazillion years!

Civics:

Spoiler :

Not much change from the last round.

Techs:

Spoiler :

Alex and Genghis are definitely starting to fall behind, and Hammy is a bit behind as well. Cyrus, Sal, and Liz are in better shape, though NONE of these AIs have anything useful to trade. I don't want to trade for Monotheism because it is a cheap tech that I can backfill research myself.

I am starting to think that even though I've been avoiding wars by not making any real enemies, it also hasn't helped me gain any friend or two to make trades on a consistent basis. Not that I am hurting badly in techs, mind you, but still!

Religions:

Spoiler :

Hinduism and Buddhism spread throughout my cities.. not quite 50-50, but slighly in favor of Buddhism. Like I have said, I prefer to wait until the Apostolic Palace is built, and even then, I might already be in a position to just go for Free Religion anyway. Though I do think that I do need to semi commit to a religion so that at least I will have the option to run Organized Religion or Theocracy as necessary. What do you think I should do with this complicated situation?

Wonders:

Spoiler :

Liz has been spamming wonders as you can see. Also notice that I am building Mausoleum of Maussallos in St. Pete. I might as well when I still have marble, and that it will make my golden ages even better with longer duration. This means that I will have even more enticing options when I pop any Great People.

Map of the North:

Spoiler :

You can clearly see the fish/corn city north of the capital, which now houses the Great Library and building National Epic. That English city of Canterbury is a Christian holy city. Also, you can see my 8th and newest city, Vladivostok, to the southeast of Moscow as well. As you can see, thanks to Alex capturing Hammy's 2nd city, I was able to claim more land and resources to myself around Vladivostok. ^_^

Map of the South:

Spoiler :

Yekaterinburg on the southwest, is fighting a bit of a culture war with Genghis, though it's still got good land around it. On the other hand, the stone city, Yaroslavl, is really giving the Mongolian city of Borsippa (formerly Hammy's city that was captured by Genghis) a lot of culture pressure. Notice that this city managed to claim the sheep, as well as two incense resources to my culture! ^_^

---------------

Before I end this post though, a couple of more screen shots. These happen right after I end my turn upon loading the save game file attached here. It is this kind of headache that I will have to deal with, unless I start capitulating or eliminating some of these AIs.

Spoiler :

One after the other...

Note that upon loading the save, Cyrus is not at war yet, but at the start of the following turn, he will be declaring on Genghis. And he is trying to bring me to the war... why is he doing that? He is the only "Pleased" AI that will go back to "Cautious" just because I will refuse helping him in war.

And as for Hammy? Now I know you hate Genghis's guts, but seriously... do you have anything better to do?

I don't think I will accept any of these requests yet. More demerits, but I don't need war, and I am not yet sure on which religious side to lean toward...

Your comments and criticism are badly needed at this point for guidance in general, especially the diplo situation and my economy/tech.

 

[shyuhe]

Is there any reason why you aren't using more farms for scientists (or caste merchants) if you're running representation? I would prioritize civil service for chain irrigation here so that you can get more out of your pyramids.

I'm also not a fan of your "make no enemies" diplo strategy since nobody really likes you as a result. I would have adopted Buddhism and joined in on the Hammurabi dog pile to get easy diplo points with Alex + Khan.

 

[Gwaja]

Is there any reason why you aren't using more farms for scientists (or caste merchants) if you're running representation? I would prioritize civil service for chain irrigation here so that you can get more out of your pyramids.

I'm also not a fan of your "make no enemies" diplo strategy since nobody really likes you as a result. I would have adopted Buddhism and joined in on the Hammurabi dog pile to get easy diplo points with Alex + Khan.

Yes, you are right. Civil Service is a high priority. I will be getting that next after Philosophy, and by then, the National Epic should be done as well. I am thinking about launching a Golden Age, switch civics to Bureaucracy, Caste System, and possibly Pacifism as well if I adopt a religion.

You are right... I should have sided with someone sooner and made friends. Buddhist block is obviously the safer route to go, as both Genghis and Alex are Buddhists. But now, I am not so sure anymore. As tech trading partners, Genghis and Alex are terrible, and they both have worst enemies, especially now that Cyrus is picking on Genghis from the other side. Since domination is my objective in this game, I want to take out Alex and Liz, who has been spamming wonders and is not much of a military threat, as well as her size. And if Sal ends up with Apostolic Palace, I might have to go join the Hindu block instead.

So at this point, I am not even sure if I should stop being the lonely pagan and give in to Sal's demand to convert to Hinduism. If I want to run Pacifism, I need to have a state religion anyway. And that would mean that I would need some monasteries erected to spread my state religion around... actually for both religions in case the Apostolic Palace goes to the other religion than the one I would eventually pick.

 

[lymond]

OR lets you spread mishes and is a very powerful civic

 

[shyuhe]

Why would you pick the religion that pisses off 3/4 of your direct neighbors? I'd try to complete the MoM ASAP and start a golden age. Swap civics (caste/OR + Buddhism) while you research civil service. Adopt bureau as soon as you can. You should be able to do all of this during the GA. At the end of the GA, maybe adopt pacifism -- really depends on what you're going to do in the midgame.

 

[Gwaja]

OR lets you spread mishes and is a very powerful civic

I am hoping that I can use the Golden Age to make these civics changes back and forth. I wouldn't need any monasteries to build missionaries under Organized Religion, so that's something I would like to do. But the monasteries themselves are no slouches either, are they? bonus as well as +10% :research: bonus isn't too shabby, and they become obsolete sometime down the line that you would want them early if you are building them.

Actually, I think it would be best to run it after I use the Golden Age time to run Pacifism and then switch to Organized Religion afterwards. Since I am not planning on warring anytime soon, I could use the building bonus.

Why would you pick the religion that pisses off 3/4 of your direct neighbors? I'd try to complete the MoM ASAP and start a golden age. Swap civics (caste/OR + Buddhism) while you research civil service. Adopt bureau as soon as you can. You should be able to do all of this during the GA. At the end of the GA, maybe adopt pacifism -- really depends on what you're going to do in the midgame.

Buddhism makes more sense, after all, in the sense that it is spread more in my largest cities, as well as being in good terms with the immediate neighbors. I think the only real diplo demerit I got from the Buddhist block were from:

1) way early when Liz was the only Buddhist and I temporarily stopped trading with her because everyone I wanted to trade with and be in good relations with were hostile or worst enemies with her at the time.

2) not agreeing to help Genghis in his war against Hammy. I guess this was a misplay on my part, now that I think about it more thoroughly. I could have just done a phony war and earn some diplo bonus. Oh well...

I was thinking more towards running Pacifism during the Golden Age and switching into Organized Religion afterwards. I think the Mausoleum of Maussallos can be finished right at the same time when I can get Civil Service, unless I rush the wonder with a couple of chops in St. Pete.

So during the Golden Age, I plan to convert to Buddhism, and swap civics to Bureaucracy, Caste System, and Pacifism. At the end of the Golden Age, I can revert to Organized Religion. I may go all out on trying to get Great People points during this time... may even starve some cities for a while too.

Or should Organized Religion be run during the Golden Age instead...?

 

[shyuhe]

Pacifism is only useful if you're going to try to crank out a few great people. If you can crank out the great people during the golden age, that works. Just remember - you need to have the state religion in the city for pacifism to apply. So you might need OR to spread the religion a bit first before you can fully take advantage of pacifism. Not that every city needs to benefit from pacifism for it to be a good civic...

 

[Gwaja]

Pacifism is only useful if you're going to try to crank out a few great people. If you can crank out the great people during the golden age, that works. Just remember - you need to have the state religion in the city for pacifism to apply. So you might need OR to spread the religion a bit first before you can fully take advantage of pacifism. Not that every city needs to benefit from pacifism for it to be a good civic...

The fish city with the Great Library and soon-to-be-built National Epic thankfully has Buddhism, as well as few other cities. I will see what cities need the religion spread... the ones that I plan to run specialists.

I've actually been studying your save quite a bit by the way. Now that I think about it, being Creative/Imperialistic is a great combo to be more aggressive in the beginning like you have done.

 

[Gwaja]

I regret to say that this round was a bit sloppy on my part, because I was playing while doing 4 other things at the same time. So, if I screwed up badly, I have a very small excuse to go by! ^_^ Nonetheless, I've got some update and tons of screen shots to boot! So here we go...

At the end of the last round, this was my religion situation in consideration for running Organized Religion and/or Pacifism.

Spoiler :

Well, I actually switched to Buddhism immediately at the start of this round. I saw Alex beginning to plot war, and as soon as I switched over to Buddhism, he stopped his plotting. So I guess I made a safe choice there.

A turn afterward, a predictable event happened:

Spoiler :

Cyrus and Genghis were at it again. I am very happy to see this development, as this will keep the Mongol occupied and not turn his attention to me. And now that I share his religion, he will have less of a reason to hate me.

Soon, I got some pleasant news:

Spoiler :

You know... I always thought that new religion's holy city is almost always your newest erected city. But in this case, St. Pete became the holy city, which was quite a surprise. I debated on where to send the free missionary... maybe I can use it on an AI's city? Nah... I think I will send him to Moscow instead, and that's what I did. Thankfully, he did not fail his attempt.

Now good ol Sal came knocking on my door and began making his usual demand against his hated heathen:

Spoiler :

No thanks, Sal. I want to be in good relationship with my Buddhist buddies, and you are far away from me, so I am not too afraid. But he is still being a good ol chap even though he is annoyed with me by supplying me with his marble. How nice of him to do that, because it is helping me out tremendously.

In the meantime, Liz built the Apostolic Palace and I was pleased to find that I was a leading candidate for residency:

Spoiler :

I had slight hope that maybe I can get elected as the resident, but turns out that nobody voted for me except for myself. Darn, I should have just voted for Liz instead and get a diplo bonus. Oh well....

Oh and another good news...

Spoiler :

This city is going to be my new GP farm, and I want to abuse it as much as possible once I hit a Golden Age and run Pacifism... on top of the Parthenon bonus as well.

More good news...

Spoiler :

YAY! Now my Golden Ages will be longer... I think at 12 turns instead of the normal 8 turns I believe? This makes triggering Golden Ages a lot more attractive, and the Taj Mahal even more attractive than ever. But as you will see later at the end of this round, I will come into a dilemma...

And more techs coming in towards my straight beeline to Liberalism:

Spoiler :

Soon after I got this, I triggered a Golden Age, and made massive civics change: Bureaucracy, Caste, and Pacifism. I did not trigger the Golden Age right away after the Mausoleum of Maussallos was built because Yakutsk, my GP farm, was yet to reach its maximum health/happy cap, and there were a few cities lacking Buddhism. It did not take long to get all my cities with Buddhism as well as Yakutsk reaching its health/happy cap though, so I didn't lose out on too many turns I think...

Now Alex comes calling in, letting me know how much he hates Hammy's guts:

Spoiler :

Fine... I gave in to his demand. It's not likely I will ever get in good terms with Hammy anyway, and I want Alex's full attention toward Hammy. I wonder why he is not picking a fight with Sal though. Kinda interesting.

Well, Alex isn't the only psychopath on this map and well... Genghis doesn't want to miss out on his part in being annoying with his demands:

Spoiler :

Ha... okay. It is a cheap tech. I gave it to him. No big deal. Just keep yourself busy with Cyrus. Since the Persian seems relatively strong himself, it's gonna be a stalemate which is all the better for me. But the price Genghis is paying is that he is now very far behind in tech.

Right after I got Paper, Alex decides that his thumbs need more twiddling:

Spoiler :

Great stuff! Keep fighting each other.

Now at this time, I popped another Great Scientist. I actually used him to bulb Education and saved myself about 8 turns of research. And after a bit more turns went by, a little "DING" that became music to my ears happened:

Spoiler :

Of course, I went straight to Liberalism. I chose to self research it instead of trying to bulb it since I had no doubt I was gonna win this race, and the Great Scientist's bulbing priority made it so that I had to backfill research techs like Compass and etc.

So now at this point... I am now 1 turn away from Liberalism and I decided to stop here because I need to make some decisions.

STATE OF THE WORLD:

Diplo:

Spoiler :

For a few turns, Sal considered me his worst enemy until he changed his tune and made Alex his worst enemy. Hammy and Alex still hate each other's guts and they are still at war. Of course, why am I not surprised that the two psychopaths are best of buddies? ^_^

Also, Liz and Genghis are annoyed with each other, with Liz considering Genghis as his worst enemy. This is because Liz switched out of Buddhism and into Free Religion! No... she built the Shwedagon Paya. She has yet to research Education so she is still behind me in the Liberalism race.

Hammy and Genghis are also annoyed with each other.. no surprise there. And Cyrus hates Genghis as his worst enemy. Also it looks like Liz and Hammy are becoming friends. Hmmm...

As for me, Hammy now is annoyed with me because of the religion and the fact that I stopped trading with him. Sal is annoyed with me too, because of the religion but also that I begged Alex to stop trading with him, which made Sal annoyed with Alex enough to make him his worst enemy! Why isn't Alex pleased with me already? I mean even Genghis is pleased with me for Christ's sakes!

Deals:

Spoiler :

Resources:

Spoiler :

Only Genghis and Cyrus have something to trade for, but I don't want to incur the wrath of diplo demerit by starting trades with them yet. Since Cyrus, even though he is running a different religion, is still very open to making tech trades, I don't really want to annoy him much either.

Civics:

Spoiler :

Gah! Liz and her Free Religion... does this mean I will be the next resident of the Apostolic Palace?

Religion:

Spoiler :

All my cities with my state religion: Buddhism. Pacifism and Golden Age bonus reflected as well.

Techs:

Spoiler :

The only alarming sign from here is Liz who has managed to get Nationalism. I did make a few tech trades with her, and maybe that backfired a bit. I don't know how she is keeping up with her 5 cities. It must be her trait combo. I think that when I decide on warring, she will have to be the first to go.

Cyrus has Construction and Machinery, which is very tempting. Trading with him means diplo demerit from Genghis who is at the moment, pleased, but will step down to cautious if I make any deals with his worst enemy.

Apostolic Palace Situations:

Spoiler :

Since Liz is now running Free Religion, what is the ramification there? She built the Apostolic Palace, but now she doesn't officially have a state religion. Does that mean that she won't be a full member anymore? Or does the owner of the palace become a full member regardless?

Wonders:

Spoiler :

Well, at least I got the ones I cared most about.

Okay.. I have 8 more turns of Golden Age left, and have 2 Great Scientists in reserve, with another one popping in 2 turns. Now that I am erecting Universities in my cities to get Oxford in Moscow, should I consider switching to Organized Religion for the bonus for buildings?

Also, what should I do with these Great Scientists? I could build more academies, as only the capital and the GP farm have them. I could try to save them to bulb techs like Printing Press after I get Machinery either through self research or trading with Cyrus. I could, also, go for Gunpowder now and try to bulb Chemistry en route to Steel. That's as far as I can see for bulbing techs that I want. Of course, I can save one for later to start another Golden Age, and in that case, I would definitely need another kind of Great Person.

Should I have tried for Great Merchant or Great Artist instead I wonder...? I mean this is the first time I will have 3 Great Scientists available to me at one time.

Plan for tech path:

Since Liz has Nationalism already, I am afraid that she is going to beat me to the Taj Mahal, which I really want because it leverages the Mausoleum of Maussallos wonder even more. This means that I should just finish Liberalism now, take Nationalism as my reward, and start working on the Taj Mahal right away, while I still have the marble from Sal.

Another consideration is to delay Liberalism and start backfilling techs. I am looking at the bottom of the tech tree: Machinery --> Guilds --> Banking. This will enable me to bulb Printing Press after Machinery and then grab Replaceable Parts after Banking en route to Rifling after Gunpowder. I could then go for Nationalism --> Military Tradition as well. There is also the Gunpowder --> Chemistry (which could also be bulbed after I get Printing Press) line that leads me to Steel.

Bear in mind that I am intending to go for Domination in this game, most likely with cossacks. I don't even think I would need cannons if I were to go with cossacks, which lowers Chemistry in the priority scale.

I am thinking that Guilds and Banking are better to get sooner than later, to erect some buildings that can increase my reserves as well.... Of course, getting 6 universities for Oxford is a priority.

Another thing that I am interested in trying out is doing the Globe Theatre trick running slavery with Hereditary Rule, as written by UnconqueredSun. If I want to try for that, I would need Drama and get 6 theatres erected as well. Which city out of the 8 do you think makes an excellent Globe city?

Anyway, these are my thoughts for now. I thought that I should record my thoughts so that I can refer to them later, as well as future viewing. I tend to forget things quite a bit, so this helps me a lot too.

I hope to play some more tomorrow as I have the rest of the week off, though that still doesn't excuse me completely from work stuff...

 

[Gwaja]

Since I am limited to 30 images per post:

The Map of My Empire, North and South:

My empire North and South:

Spoiler :

 

[shyuhe]

Merchants are generally more effective in the mid-game when you have large research multipliers (library, university, academy, Oxford) and few wealth multipliers. I like to use caste and farm 2-3 GMs at this point of the game to keep my slider at 100% for a long time. Since you have the GS's, I'd consider going for a steel slingshot from liberalism. You can tech gunpowder and trade through engineering. Then burn two scientists on chemistry and voi la, steel. Just remember to get a GM in advance and build catapults/trebs for insta-upgrade. You can use draft muskets + pikes (stack cover) to go take out your neighbors.

I'm somewhat surprised you didn't declare on Cyrus for the easy diplo points with Khan though. That he's a heathen to everybody in the world is an added bonus. If you can take control of the AP, you can even declare holy war against him.

I'd also either scout your neighbors lands or trade for their maps so that you can see who has the good land etc.

 

[Gwaja]

Merchants are generally more effective in the mid-game when you have large research multipliers (library, university, academy, Oxford) and few wealth multipliers. I like to use caste and farm 2-3 GMs at this point of the game to keep my slider at 100% for a long time. Since you have the GS's, I'd consider going for a steel slingshot from liberalism. You can tech gunpowder and trade through engineering. Then burn two scientists on chemistry and voi la, steel. Just remember to get a GM in advance and build catapults/trebs for insta-upgrade. You can use draft muskets + pikes (stack cover) to go take out your neighbors.

I'm somewhat surprised you didn't declare on Cyrus for the easy diplo points with Khan though. That he's a heathen to everybody in the world is an added bonus. If you can take control of the AP, you can even declare holy war against him.

I'd also either scout your neighbors lands or trade for their maps so that you can see who has the good land etc.

With the farmed Great Merchants, I am assuming you send them on trade missions?

Right now, it is clear to me that Liz has the monopoly on Engineering. But the problem with tech trades is that Liz is very hesitant to trade techs, now that she is no longer pleased with me after running Free Religion, and the other two Buddhists, Genghis and Alex, are pathetic in techs... only the heathen Cyrus is willing to trade machinery and construction to me. I am tempted to make the trade but that is a diplo demerit from Genghis instantly. On the other hand, I don't want to waste my turns self researching them.

With this kind of situation, I'd reckon that getting Engineering through trades might take too long.

I was actually leaning more towards cossacks than cannons/muskets. If I go the chemistry --> steel slingshot route, maybe grenadiers even? But I hate Military Science as a tech because it is a dead end tech and the additional promotions granted require a very heavily promoted troops that will take a long time to get.

I guess with cannons, even muskets could probably do reasonably well against longbows? Didn't think about pikes but I could see that as defense vs AI mounted units trying to flank my siege units.

And yes, more scouting is needed. I was too lazy to self control my scouting chariots, so I put it on auto explore in both directions. Map trading is also a possibility, but again, only Cyrus, the religious heathen, is willing to trade maps.

And this is precisely why I haven't really encouraged any kind of campaign against him, because even though he is a lonely heathen, he is the only one openly willing to do trades with me. Since trading with Cyrus only angers Genghis who is next to useless as a trade partner, I didn't see any need for aggression towards the Persian.

 

[Nick Carpathia]

Well that was, uh, embarassing. And to think I had done everything else so well! I lightbulbed education, timed 6 universities to pop at once, letting me move directly into stone-boosted Oxford. I then Liberalism-Nationalism, teched Mil Tradition, and overran wonder-spamming Hammurabi (Sistine Chapel, Notre Dame, Versaille and the Jewish shrine) with Curaissers. And all the while, I was wondering why I was only getting 60-ish commerce from my cottage cheese capital, and why Taj Mahal would take the same amount of time to build as that former barbarian city out in the woods.

Well, when my Golden Age finally popped, and I intended to switch into rep/caste/mercantilism/pacifism it turned out I was actually in... Barbarism? WHAT!? Especially after beelining Civil Service? I could have won the economics race, I could have built and upgraded a dozen more curaissers, I could have had twice as much infrastructure! God, that felt horrible. No matter, I can simply use my land advantage to destroy all comers.