Enders Game 1: The Training Game Competition - Team 1

Hi,

The swedish line: Should have been:
Alea Jacta Est, as someone once said.

I rushed the libraries in order to get those cities into producing workers, and I didn't want to waste the shields invested in them. Also, some border expansions would be nice.
As to Tech, rush Invention mostly because if we chose to go Leos, then Leader should not sit idle so long. Agree on INvention rarely if ever comes to player first. Got lucky, theology came in first, and teh one researching that likely paupered the rest of the researchers.

Yes, agree on Engineerign for a worker being a dubious decision. Mainly I didn't want to give him money as we would need our own.

Got really lucky with Leaders. I was all set to go SunTzu with the second, when I sneaked a peek at the board, and the ndecided to hold him. Luckily both wonders are available still, so in case we decide to go SUnTzu, we still have that opportunity.

Grimjack
 
Originally posted by Speaker
I'll let the Training players choose and then I'll call whatever decision they make :smoke:.:)
:mad:

No direction? How about the rest of the team. :help:

I'm leaning towards SunTsu's. Reasons:
We are not militaristic so barracks are expensive.
We want them on the front lines so they will probably be rushed. The savings for a rushed barracks will almost pay for an upgrade.
We're planning on using horse/knights for offense which can retreat, thus having a lot of 1HP units that need healing in newly captured cities.
We have a lot of BG, soon to be cleared jungle and an early FP allowing us to make knights with sheilds in many of our cities.
If we have a prebuild going (not sure If Grimjack kept his going) we have an off chance that we can still grab Leos.
We can stage our horses anywhere, including on the enemies doorstep and still be able to upgrade (assuming our road net has iron there).

I've GOT IT, waiting for a little discussion. Will post Monday morning if thats OK (a little late on a strict 24/48). Otherwise I'll have to be a skip.
 
Originally posted by Grimjack
10BC(7)
Grant Ottomans ENgineering for a worker and Monarchy. ( Didn't want to part with the 130 gold worker was going to cost.)

...

30AD:
Hmm, sometimes I really think the AIs are cheating. Piss-poor Ottomans somehow have acquired Theology. And Vikings have ENgineering. Vikings do not have any iron, so if they ever get a tech we dont, perhaps it would be time for some pointy stick research.
Did gifting Engineering to Ottomans end up gifting it to Ottomans and Vikings? Vikings don't have Theology do they?

I'm scared of Berzerks although I've never faced them. We're hitting them soon right?
 
Take all the time you need ControlFreak. We are in slowdown mode for the next couple weeks anyways. I really think we should consider skipping Chivalry, building cheap horsemen to upgrade to Cavalry. I also don't think Scandinavia and their Berzerks are anything to worry about. They have only a handful of cities. As long as we make sure to keep a decent portion of our military in the north, we will be fine. Same with China in the south. That is why hitting the two most dangerous Civs early was a great play. The fact that they were our neighbors and let us expand is just icing on top of the cake
 
Originally posted by Speaker
I really think we should consider skipping Chivalry, building cheap horsemen to upgrade to Cavalry.
Unless of course you guys feel like you want to work on your Knight play. In that case, let's hold off a little longer and get Chivalry toward the middle of the age.

I may be the first player to ever quote himself....
 
I quote myself all the time, but not usually the post right before!

I'm OK waiting until Cavs. No sense killing off our horsie units before they become their true Unique selves.
 
I'm tempted to go with Sun Tzu's as well, but only really after reading that great analysis by Sirian. I think either wonder would be good of course.

It's great to get those leaders to allow us to pick and choose a wonder, rather than just skipping them all. So well played Grimjack!

Just as a forewarning I am going away during the summer, so there will be times when I will not have internet access. Let's hope Orbit will be back before that though!

Good luck ControlFreak:)
 
I do not think the cascade will be killed by SunTzu. I do not have a prebuild going either. ( Wasn't much use for a prebuild with a leader around..... )

I think either choice is a great choice for us. Leos will be a one time benefit of some 50 horsemen upgrading to cav, or 30 horse to Knight and then 40 knights to Cavs.
SunTzus benefits are not so easy to quantify. The one benefit I have gotten most value out of has been on my ( Real World) time, in that I do not need to bother rushiong units around to mfind the barracks when they are to be upgraded. Number two is the healing in even new cities on the frontier.

Also, as Sirian as usual is very persuasive in his arguments for SunTzus, I think in a cavalry rush we would benefit more by Leos.

We would lose out on the free healing, but we can instead rush a barracks in a frontier city for the money we save on two horseman->cav upgrades. ( Or three Horse->Knight upgrades. )

So main thing of SunTzu is prevention. If we do cavalry rush, AIs will hopefully not have time to build lots and lots of units. Then the benefit will be less. We will just have to make sure we do not siege cities, we bring enough Cavalry to take the city in one strike.

I would vote for Leos. I am not adamantly opposed to SunTzu either, just think Leos would be marginally better.

Grimjack
 
This is last post before I leave on vacation for two weeks.

Good luck with the game. ( Or rather since we seem to have a strong position, Lets hope for no bad luck. )

Will let you know if I manage to get some sort of Internet access.

Grimjack
 
We seem to be leaning towards SunTzu's at the minute, but none of us seem to be completely sure. Both are going to be useful to us, and I'm now swaying back towards Leo's. Anyway, as I'm the only player around at the moment I don't need to make up my mind just yet.
 
Welcome back Speaker. I hope the weekend was fun.

I found a way to prolong the leader decision until the next player.;)

Pull out your :whipped:. I didn't feel all that comfortable on this buildup phase. I hope their isn't a lot of :smoke:.

(0) 0050AD
Sorting by shields, all the low shield towns are building workers and librarys. The higher sheild towns: three are building horsemen, Kiev(temple), Novogorod-FP(Granary), Beijing and Tblisi (Markets). Beijing and Tblisi are decent in income and will be hleped by markets. Since we're not at war with anyone and we're waiting for Invention for leos and the upgrades, this should be a builders round. Switch St. Petes from horse due in 1 to temple due in 4, 1 turn before it grows to unhappiness. Odessa doesn't need temple just yet and the horse completes in 1 with 0 sheild waste so I let it go. Minsk will grow to five next turn and could be at six five turns later. I switch it from a horse to duct (no sheilds yet).

Researching invention at -28gpt due in seems a bit steep. We can get it in 12 at -7. Since we're trying to get leos but we have a leader the tech can wait. We're at peace so I won't be missing out on any leader chances. If someone else discovers it first, that will be my fault but I wanted to stop hemoraging gold or we won't be able to take advantage of Leos anyway. No cash for upgrades. Slider now at 6.3.1.

Diplomacy reveals a peaceful world. We have a trade route with china but they have nothing. London is capitalizing on the Great Lighthouse with a trade route to Greece. They also have an orange border in the black NW of Ottomans. They want 5g for their map so I buy it to see what the new area looks like. Turns out its just their second tiny island, mostly desert. Note though that we could have settled here also because its a short galley trip from the mainland. Note greece island has incense and silks (6 each) that puts them in the monopoly. Our continent has neither. We have Furs Dyes, Spices and Gems while England has Wines and Ivory. At least one of those is being exported to Greece. Make money back by selling Englands map to all civs for 2g.

England Egypt, Greece and Ottomans are up by Theology. Vikings are equal, Celts down by Engineering and China way back by three techs. Of our three potential next victims, only China has Iron. Celts have furs that we already own, Vikes have Spices that we already own.

Wondering why our eleven slaves in Sverdlovsk are working 3 different tiles. It would be better to have them all on one tile to take advantage of the cleared tile earlier. Waking them would waste more turns so I let them go.

Moscow is building a settler and is at size 5. I thought we were trying to get this to size six and a worker per turn. Workers had started irrigating a river tile that Moscow will never use while its a worker factory and it can't be used by anyone else. I wake them. I adjust moscow to 10fpt,5spt so worker in 2 turns and we'll be at size 6. Next priority is to irrigate a BG to allow 10fpt, 8spt. Extra 2 shields will come on growth.

Last couple checks and press enter.
(1) 0070AD
Odessa horse>horse. Sverdlovsk worker>worker.
Workers clearing lots of jungle. Moscow BG irrigated and MM for grow in 1, worker in 1, max gold. Tblisi MM from horse to mined river BG. Should have been done last turn. Extra worker from Moscow goes to irrigate horse because Krasnoyarsk needs food and with the town and rubble sitting on grassland we can irrigate towards Vladivostock to help it grow. Galley moved towards the English isle. The greek map shows sea 2 tiles deep which might indicate another island. England's Great Lighthouse gives them a huge advantage in that regard. Taking Chinese cities will give our settlers a route to the potential new areas.

Trade WM with England and sell around for 1g per.
MM:
Kiev stops using mountain in favor of growth, temple still in 3.
Minsk to start filling food box while duct is building.
Novogorod use mine instead of irrigation, growth in 1.

(2) 0090AD
Moscow worker>worker. Have to select wheat instead of hill for 10fpt, 8spt. Tell governer to emphasize food. Hope that works.
Galley enters English waters. Get Liz to pay 1gpt and 11g for a ROP so she won't be bothered with our galley.
China and Vikings can't pay for Lizs WM.
(3) 0110AD
Moscow worker>worker. Governor wont do it so every turn I have to reselect irrigated BG rather than hill.
Yakusk library>barracks. This will be our jumping off point to vikings if we wait the twenty turns for it to build.
Odense worker>library. Border expansion will grab the whale.
Vladivostok worker>market. Workers will come from Moscow and all those gems will provide a lot of gold with a market.

Trade for China and Vikes WM. Sell to all others for 1g.

MM Kiev to use the jungle that will clear in 1 turn instead of iron hill. 0 shield overrun on temple due next turn.
Sevastopol use jungle instead of grass to prevent growth to 7 1 turn earlier than settler.
(4) 0130AD
Moscow worker>worker. Same micromanagement. You need to select cow, wheat 2 irrigated BG and 2 mined BG.
St.Petes Temple>horse.
Canton library>barracks. This is the path to Chinese.
Kiev temple>horse, mm to reduce food waste, growth in 1. This town should get to 15spt soon, horses in 2.
Odessa horse>horse.
Bergen rushes library for 36g. It's right next to Viking capital and is losing 2 of its 21 tiles to the purple menace. There is no viking citizens but I'm still afraid of the flip. I move three of the five swords out of the town towards Oslo.

Map from China to others for 1g each

Note, we're now losing 11gpt due in 8. Unit costs are 87gpt!
(5) 0150AD
Moscow, you know. We could use a market here but I need some mines on the hills to build/rush it without growing to size 7.
Trondhiem worker>worker.
Bergen lib>barracks.
Molde lib>court.
Krasnoyarsk harbor>galley.
Palace expansion offered.

Trade for Viking WM, sell to others for 1g.
Now that our harbor is ready we can trade with England, Egypt, Celts and Vikings. England has a whopping 166gpt available! No one else has any. I don't make any trades because the coastal tiles are controlled by other civs and war with anyone will break our trade route. Scratch that. I trade Dyes and Spices for 25gpt thinking that if its per turn on both sides, our rep will remain intact if war does break the route. Note, we need [Ottomans Egypt Greece] or [Vikings, Celts Egypt] at peace. Don't go to war with Egypt without breaking the trade with England. Liz is now polite. NO one else has gpt.

MM Novogorod one extra sheild completes granary this turn.
St. Petes max food still gets horse in 2. Same for Kiev.

(6) 0170AD
Moscow typical.
Novogorod granary>market.
Sevestopol settler>worker.
Sverdlovsk worker>worker.

Settler moves to Sverdlovsk. Still undecided what to do with him.
Galley goes as far W as possible from english isle but ocean on the fringe.

WM trading.

MM Sevastopol, the settler syncronized with growth to 7 has filled the food box, growth next turn. MM no food, all shield/gold.
(7) 0190AD
Moscow worker again
St Petes and Kiev Horse>horse. Kiev MM to get 15spt.
Odessa horse>horse. Queued a granary after that so it could finish before filling the food box. Next play can change.

Egypt start Sistines.

Still not sure what to do with the settler, all settlements now are flip risks. The viking towns will be keepers when captured, China's too. Send him to our FP. We'll need to build rings around this for better productivity. Plus we could always send him toward the Western shore and put him on the galley once Astronomy/Navigation is learned. There has to be another island to the SW.

WM trading.

MM St Petes to grow in exactly 2, horse in exactly 3 which will of course be screwed up by growing. Horses are woken and moved to Yakusk. One new one sent towards Bergen. One left in St Petes just in case.

(8) 0210AD
Moscow worker again
Tblisi market>barracks.
Odense riots at size2.:( Hire taxman.
Kursk worker>warrior thinking we can take advantage of the Cheap upgrade with leos due in 3.

Trade WM. England still has 124gpt available.
MM Kiev to be 1 sheild short of horse, grow in 1, hoping gov will use mountain to finish horse.
Sevestopol takes mined grass from Kievs MM to get worker 1 turn earlier otherwise would have wasted 3 shields.


(9) 0230AD
Moscow worker again.
Kiev horse>horse.
Sevestopol worker>worker.
Workers start roading toward Odense.
Sword moves to cover forest next to Bergen as a viking archer shows up there. Viking sword appears near Yakusk.
(10) 0250AD
Moscow worker again.
St Petes horse>horse.
Odessa horse>granary. MM for build in 7, grow in 9
Riga library>court.

Workers continue clearing projects.
Troops head towards Bergen/Yakusk.

Science can not be reduced, Invention in 1. Next player gets to use leader.
Settler is now in Beijing. Next player gets to decide what to do with him. If you absolutely want another town, there is room for a fishing village with a whale south 2 tiles. There is a nice spot on the roaded hill between Tsingtao and Nanking that would grab another iron, BG and be on fresh water. Its a big flip risk though. I think I would be inclined to wait until Tsingtao falls and move it 1 tile south to be on fresh water and grab the game tile.

Mines on Moscow hills are complete so it is a good time to switch to market. Keep growth low and build the market, then get back to worker per turn. (Moscow is our 4th richest city so market will help a lot with income.) I left the tiles configured for worker so you can see what I was doing.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/EG1-Team1-0250AD.sav
 
Way to go on passing the leader-buck ControlFreak. A nice set of turns IMO, but we shall see. Anyway, am I up? Or is Speaker going to come into the rotation now Grimjack is away and Orbit is missing in action (last seen throwing his monitor out of the window)?
 
A nice looking set of turns ControlFreak. Further comments to come when I get home tonight. There is something wrong with the timestamp, so mesages are a bit out of place, but my last post was meant to follow SHard's. Here is where we are.

Grimjack => Livin' la vida loca. :cool:
ControlFreak => Just played
Orbit => Hopefully fixing his computer
SHard => Up Now
Speaker => On Deck
 
Ok Got it. I'm a bit busy at the moment, hope you don't mind if I postpone playing this until tomorrow?
 
Speaker@ were your comments lost back in time or have you not posted any? I thought SHard might need to wait for those, but for all I know, they're back a few pages, dated 1999.:rolleyes:
 
I will wait for Speaker's comments before playing - I think this is the right attitude to have. I haven't got time to play tonight anyway as I was overdue with CTR1 and that took 2 hours. This will get played tomorrow which will keeps us moving along at a nice, slow rate.

BTW I am away for 5 days from July 7th-11th. (Back evening of the 11th but probably in no conidition to play as such)
 
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