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[BNW] Enjoyable Deity Games

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Nizef, Feb 9, 2019.

  1. Nizef

    Nizef Prince

    Joined:
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    Here is a recap of all games in the Enjoyable Deity Games Experience (EDGE) series so far:

    1. Korea (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    2. the Shoshone (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with Really Advanced Setup (RAS))
    3. America (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    4. Denmark (Continents, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    5. Byzantium (Fractal, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS)
    6. Germany (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    7. Polynesia (Small Continents Plus, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    8. Brazil (Continents, Standard speed, Large size, Modded with RAS)
    9. Mongolia (Pangaea, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    10. Spain (Terra, Standard speed, Large size, Modded with RAS)
    11. Carthage (Continents, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS)
    12. the Aztecs (Lakes, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    13. England (Continents, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS)
    14. Korea 2 (Small Continents, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS)
    15. Venice (Fractal, Epic speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS)
    16. Egypt (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS)
    17. the Huns (Oval, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS)
    18. Japan (Hellblazers Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded both with RAS and Hellblazers map script)
    19. China (Pangaea, Epic speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS)
    20. Babylon (Hellblazers Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded both with RAS and Hellblazers map script)
    21. Polynesia 2 (Hellblazers Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded both with RAS and Hellblazers map script)
    22. Korea 3 (Hellblazers Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded both with RAS and Hellblazers map script)
    23. Russia (Hellblazers Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded both with RAS and Hellblazers map script)
    24. Portugal (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS)
    25. France (Lakes, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    26. Germany 2 (Lakes, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    27. England 2 (Fractal, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS)
    28. Sweden (Fractal, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    29. Arabia (Sandstorm, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    30. the Mayas (Tectonics map, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with both RAS and the Tectonics map template)
    31. Ethiopia (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    32. Assyria (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    33. Poland (Fractal, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS)
    34. India (Pangaea, Standard speed, Small size, Modded with RAS)
    35. the Aztecs 2 (Hellblazers Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with Hellblazers map script)
    36. Morocco (Sandstorm, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    37. Babylon 2 (Large Islands, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    38. Spain 2 (Inland Sea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    39. Greece (Fractal, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    40. Carthage 2 (Fractal, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    41. Indonesia (Archipelago, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    42. the Mayans 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Piety challenge
    43. Siam (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Patronage partial challenge
    44. the Shoshone 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    45. Poland 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Honor challenge
    46. the Netherlands (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Liberty challenge
    47. the Aztecs 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    48. the Celts (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    49. the Zulus (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Aesthetics challenge
    50. Austria (Pangaea, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    51. Persia (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    52. the Ottomans (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Religion challenge
    53. Rome (Fractal, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    54. Songhai (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    55. the Incas (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    56. Russia 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    57. India 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), CV challenge
    58. Germany 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    59. Byzantium 2 (Fractal, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Religion challenge
    60. the Iroquois (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Aesthetics challenge
    61. America 2 (Pangaea, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), DomV challenge
    62. Sweden 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Petra challenge
    63. Morocco 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), partial Commerce challenge
    64. England 3 (Fractal, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), partial UN challenge
    65. Portugal 2 (Continents, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), partial elimination challenge
    66. Egypt 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    67. Polynesia 3 (Archipelago, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    68. Sweden 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    69. Germany 4 (Pangaea, Epic speed, Large size, Unmodded), War academy, part 1, DomV challenge
    70. the Huns 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), War academy, part 2
    71. Spain 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Huge size, Unmodded)
    72. Denmark 2 (Lakes, Standard speed, Standard size, Otherwise unmodded but Rotate Starting Position was used)
    73. Venice 2 (Fractal, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), DipV challenge
    74. Carthage 3 (Hellblazer´s Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with Hellblazer´s map script), CV challenge
    75. China 2 (Pangaea, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), War academy, part 3, DomV challenge
    76. Mongolia 2 (Pangaea, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), War academy, part 4
    77. Brazil 2 (Pangaea, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    78. the Shoshone 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    79. Assyria 2 (Terra Incognita, Standard speed, Standard size, Otherwise unmodded but Rotate Starting Position was used)
    80. Indonesia 2 (Small Continents, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), No Liberty challenge
    81. Portugal 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    82. Japan 2 (Ice Age, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), No Order challenge
    83. Persia 2 (Random map, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    84. the Netherlands 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    85. Denmark 3 (Tiny Islands, Standard speed, Large size, Raging Barbarians, Otherwise unmodded but Rotate Starting Position was used)
    86. America 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Large size, Unmodded), No Tradition challenge
    87. the Incas 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    88. Korea 4 (Pangaea, Quick speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    89. the Ottomans 2 (Continents, Standard speed, Large size, Unmodded)
    90. Arabia 2 (Lakes, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    91. Ethiopia 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Pantheon challenge
    92. Greece 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    93. France 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), CV challenge
    94. Siam 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded),Incense challenge
    95. Byzantium 3 (Continents, Epic speed, Large size, Unmodded)
    96. England 4 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    97. Sweden 4 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    98. Babylon 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    99. the Zulus 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Large size, Unmodded)
    100. Germany 5 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), CV challenge
    101. Brazil 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    102. Austria 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    103. England 5 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, modded with RAS and Acken´s balance mod)
    104. the Celts 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    105. Rome 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Large size, Unmodded)
    106. Songhai 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    107. Poland 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    108. Russia 3 (Lakes, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), DomV challenge
    109. China 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
    110. the Aztecs 4 (Lakes, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), DomV challenge

    The new subseries MIDGE consists of:
    1. Finland (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size. Otherwise unmodded but the civ to play is Finland)
    2. The Papal States (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size. Otherwise unmodded but the civ to play is The Papal States. You also need Austria-Hungary.)
    3. Phoenisia (Continents, Standard speed, Standard size. Otherwise unmodded but the civ to play is the Phoenician civilization.)
    4. Norway (Ice Age, Standard speed, Standard size. Otherwise unmodded but the civ to play is Norway. You also need the modded civs Finland, Iceland and Scotland.)
    5. Belgium (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Otherwise unmodded but the civ to play is Belgium)
     
  2. TMNTurtle

    TMNTurtle Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Swedenland
    I find myself picking up IP for pretty much all my liberty games, but for some reason I choose Religious texts when going tradition, thinking that because of fewer cities I will benefit more from stronger pressure from caravans. Of course, after reading your post I realise almost all my trade routes end up on the internal trade circuit anyway. Will start experimenting with IP in my trad games as well, thank you!
     
  3. TMNTurtle

    TMNTurtle Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Swedenland
    I first found civfanatics through Consentient's deity tier list where I read: "If you're the type of player that tries to win turtling victories and undergoes stress wondering if you'll be invaded, since you've concentrated so hard on science that you only have 3 XBs and a Pike, then this tier list is probably not for you right now, but maybe in the future you would enjoy learning a bit about war and how it can help you immensely.", ouch! That hit a bit too close to home.

    Since I am a notorious peacemonger my only domination win on deity was from my second attempt at DCL#8, but as we all know Keshik=OP and I've been longing for a win with a civ closer to the neutrals. I've made a few unsuccesful attempts where I could often get a good XB rush going and then stall out in the mid game, not able to get to key techs in time. Thanks to this thread I have finally figured out what the problem is.

    As a freedom-loving turtle the go to policies for me have been ratio+aesthetics or ratio+commerce for CV or SV, patronage was a blind spot for me. So in my domination games I had gone commerce on autopilot to fix my non-existent gold issues while tech was lagging.

    With Vadalaz' suggestions for EDGE#94 I had my eyes opened about patronage and scholasticism. Not only does it seem to fix the general issue I currently have with domination, but it made for a really fun game. Cause on this map the citystates were out for blood.

    Spoiler #94 Ramkamheng's Siam - T259 DomV :

    "Let's face it, I'm a DoW-happy fella, and yet, as long as I don't DoW more than one CS, by T150 I have [usually] allied all the CS. I'm reminded of the words of Patton, who said 'In this country, they love a winner, and will not tolerate a loser.' CS LOVE warmongers, really." - Consentient, warmonger extraordinaire

    Policies: liberty+patronage to scholasticism (was trying for only left side liberty but I had lots of early culture and my tech order led to entering the classical era late, so I ended up finishing liberty first), a few policies into ratio/commerce and then autocracy.

    Got some cultural CS friends as well as friendships with Gajah and Gandhi. An early campaign against Kamehameha was succesful despite him trying to stop me by building the great wall, which only ended up slowing me down. I was left alone to bully Polynesia at will since all of the western powers ganged up on Genghis dividing his empire between themselves.

    Incense trade was booming until I took Honolulu and my fellow world leader's started with the denouncing. China makes itself my next target by stealing Machu from me (Nizef, I saw how she sniped the Louvre, I feel you on this one). With Oliphant's and XBs the Chu-Ko-Nu fall flat and I pick up Beijing and Shanghai, selling the latter to Indonesia because of happiness issues and also to give him border friction with the Japanese.

    I get concerned about a possible backstab from Gajah so I pay him to backstab India instead, (which is surprisingly cheap) I'm telling you this guy is a crook, he soon backstab denounces me proving why this needed to happen. Around t200 Honolulu has cranked out a galeass army that transforms into frigates to go for England and more importantly, discovers Sri Prada on their way.

    As I attack England loses out on both my luxes and about 20 iron I had going her way (and of course I bought out her citystates), which sends Lizzy's empire into deep unhappiness and resource deficit. This combination means that for the first few turns my frigates one-shot Ship of the Line! A surreal experience for sure. Eventually she has the issues sorted and threaten to overwhelm me on the seas, so I sue for peace picking up all her luxuries and sail west for indonesia while the second land-army takes up positions at the English border.

    Meanwhile Ramkamheng's 1st Royal Mechanised is laying siege on Tokyo, a fortress at 78 defense well before T200. Sadly cavalry have by now replaced the Oliphant's and backed up by artillery and gatlings/machineguns they make short work of the walls of Tokyo, since just like in Vadalaz' game Oda shows no real interest in defending his capital. Instead, as if sensing what the secondary objective of this map is he shoots for my incense farms capturing Muang Saluang.

    EDGE#94 race for the incense.jpg
    Racing my allies for the incense.

    The second army launches the ground invasion of England and featuring landships/mguns/artillery it takes about two turns to capture each city. After taking a few Indonesian cities I lull about for a couple of turns drafting overly complicated plans as to how I'm going to capture Jakarta with my fleet on the north side, until I realise that Medan is in fact a canal city and I can just sail on through. Since the bloodthirsty citystates have already taken posession of Delhi the game ends early, i wasn't aware of that mechanic! :lol:

    Also apparently Japan is still in the game somewhere, huh.

    EDGE#94 HOME.jpg
    EDGE#94 Delhi.jpg



    Now that felt real good and as bloodlust begets bloodlust I decided to get my revenge on EDGE#100. The change of plans worked well, Panzers really are the Keshik's of the modern era. My initial plan was to go for a panzer-fuelled culture victory, but I find that just like Sissi once Panzers start moving they won't stop for anyone. (I have since found out that Manpanzee actually has a T237 culture victory with this strategy, very impressive indeed!)

    Spoiler EDGE#100 Bismarck's Germany, 3rd attempt - T272 DomV :

    "Nicht durch Reden und Mehrheitsbeschlüsse werden die großen Fragen der Zeit entschieden - das ist der Fehler von 1848 und 1849 gewesen -, sondern durch Eisen und Blut."
    - Otto von Bismarck, who firmly believes actions speak louder than words


    There are some really good ruins here this time: pop, culture, archer upgrade, pop, even faith!!! Stealing 2 workers from Indonesia and 2 from a nearby CS.

    BO: scoutx3, (at 3pop)settler, warrior, settlerx2, granary, caravan, warriors (because I had to skip military techs to get to my lux-techs in time). T48 easy first religion. At this point I think Cologne will delay NC but its library timing only delays the NC by two turns, plus the 30 extra hammer cost for founding a fourth city, not too shabby! Also Cologne will turn out to be a monster of a science hub with lots of food, jungle and it's even on a mountain to top things off.

    T84 4cityNC, immidiately a prebought settler founds a 5th city picking up marble/silk. T100 Edu, rush buy 2 Unis, Ashur wipes out indonesia and has 10 cities. I'm a bit concerned at first, but the other AIs seem to hate him and I expect them to go to war before long.

    EDGE#100 t105.jpg

    T109 rationalism. As Ashurs forces land on my shores i bribe him to go after Askia, but he keeps closing in on Berlin so I bribe him again to go after Cahokia and then Nebs to go after him. I have to give up marble for the bribes and fall into unhappiness, thanks to the wealth trick I can quickly borrow some money to ally a double-lux CS

    T129 WC - where I propose cultural heritage sites, cause I'm about to own all of them Wonders this time (with the possible exception of the Eiffel Tower). At T144 an 800 faith prophet spawns one turn before industrial... yeah, that's a reload.

    T145 ST as Austrian troops appear on my western border, I send Nebs after Maria just to be sure. T165 austria again? Is she coming for me or the opposition - she wants OB and I dont recall her being a backstabber.

    T169 somehow I am second to autocracy after Nebs who is first in all Demos except science, where he is just one tech behind me, he's gonna have to go. Now why can't I build Prora, I check the techs, I check to see Nebs hasn't built it, doublecheck (if you unlike me are used to autocracy you can probably guess what the problem is, and yes, it gets built eventually :thumbsup:).

    With T186 Biology I can improve some CS oilfields to get 13 oil (all this desert in my lands and no oil!) A T187 bulb into combustion lets ze Panzer und Bomber production begin. My Religion, Hanse, railroads and "total war" add up to a whopping +110% hammer bonus. In the interest of historical accuracy I force the other major central power to provoke the german peoples into a defensive war to unite the nation, Nebu plays along splendidly. In the interest of practicality I use tanks in lieu of 19th century hardware ..aber das ist einfach Realpolitik! Unfortunately my efforts at historical reenactment means he gets a head start on my allies, capturing the CS providing almost all of my petroleum. At -7 oil my tanks turn into paper tigers and the blitz comes to a grinding halt. Production is swithched to MGs and AAs.

    EDGE#100 letsgo.jpg

    T211 and I finally capture a city with oil, Clausewitz legacy comes online and I have also picked the tenet giving my tanks extra move and ignoring ZOC mostly for roleplay.

    A few turns later: no, no actually it's completely broken. Not only do my panzers have 7 move and ignore zoc, meaning they can pillage 3-4 tiles per turn to heal back up in spite of nearby enemies, apparently I can also purchase these honey badgers at a mere 430 gold. Insane! I don't have too much oil though, but soon realise that if I suicide my Panzers into enemy cities at the same rate I can replace them things should go swell.

    The rest of the game is just an exercise in right-clicking panzer across the map. AA guns are pointless since panzers just tank the bomber hits and my own airplanes simply can't keep up. At some point the Eiffel tower gets razed, also I lose one of my cities to angry CS troops and another to cultural pressure from Austria. None of this has any real impact though, I'm beginning to understand why Pedroelm thinks so higly of armor units.

    EDGE#100 war is hell.jpg
    War is hell.

    The game pace picks up exponentially: T260 Jakarta, T263 Assur, T265 Gao. Carthage is cleverly placed behind a few Jungles and rivers, but falls at T270. T271 Gao (again). Liz has recaptured London with a fleet, 'cause I don't have none (apparently falling prey to that traditional achilles heel when dealing with the Brits). Since I have to go back across almost the entire map now it takes one more turn to secure the victory.

    I would have liked to recapture Cologne at some point, but at least they still speak German.

    EDGE#100 Win.jpg EDGE#100 west.jpg EDGE#100 east.jpg
     
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  4. Nizef

    Nizef Prince

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    Absolutely enjoyable reading. Thanks for trying the games and it is of course a treat when you finish the games in such a convincing style! You writing in both perfect swedish and german as well, makes me curious about your nationality. Is that something you are willing to share?
     
    TMNTurtle likes this.
  5. TMNTurtle

    TMNTurtle Chieftain

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    Of course, you may consider my last post a red herring of sorts. The actual clues were in the other one, for me Finland is over the sea, to the east.
     
  6. Nizef

    Nizef Prince

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    Oh I missed that. Välkommen i gänget.
     
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  7. TMNTurtle

    TMNTurtle Chieftain

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    No report this time since the map's old and it was just a run of the mill science game anyway. Instead, since I spent most of the game pondering my city placements I'll continue where the discussion left off 1½ years ago. Feel free to chime in!

    I took the liberty to gather everyones jpegs in one post, since even with them I find this a bit confusing and hard to follow, and I'm the one who wrote it!


    Spoiler EDGE#1 Sejong's Korea - T266 SV :

    I actually really like Raider's and Grendel's spot for Jeonju on the gems-river-mountain. I would never have the minerals to forwardsettle Genghis like that, but it kept bothering me all game that I didn't get those gems (and I had some happiness issues). Also, I believe that the spot might be good enough to "waste" some resources on military to protect it.

    However, I do believe that Seoul belongs on the hill-mountain 2 steps north and it would seem Beetle and Nizef agrees. Although, it seems I chose to settle it off-river for some reason even though I am a big fan of gardens. Strange.

    As for the western city rather than considering defensibility I think simply settling away from the desert is a good idea. Because with fresh water even tundra tiles are workable, but there is no redemption for flat desert. And I'd like to go out on a limb here and propose that settling the city 3 tiles south (and not immediately south of Raiders position) is even better. You still pick up the northern hills. You get less shared tiles with the capital. The only downside is your borders won't trad-grow to the whales. (Of course you can compromise and settle it between those two alternative spots like Grendel Defiant did).

    For the southern coastal most of us found the exact same spot, so there's not much to talk about here.

    Now I don't like were Busan ended up for me and Beetle, NE of FoY and I prefer the southern spot Vadalaz and Raider used with more river tiles available. I found that even with caravans I couldn't get the city to grow like I wanted it too. Of course the NE position allowed me to settle Jeonju to the SE with less overlapping, but I kinda still don't like it to be honest.

    EDGE#1 Win.jpg
    My Empire
    EDGE#1 BeetleT94.jpeg
    Beetle's Empire
    EDGE#1 Raider T331.jpg
    Raider's Empire
    EDGE#1 VadalazT143.jpg
    Vadalaz' Empire
    EDGE#1 Grendel T248.jpg
    Grendeldef's Empire

     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2020
    Nizef likes this.
  8. raider980

    raider980 Warlord

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    This is cool Thanks for the comparison. Exploring the map and deciding where to found cities is the best part of Civ for me. This is my favorite part of playing shared maps, comparing the locations people choose to build cities.

    My top priority in deciding where to found is taking luxuries into consideration. I usually try to locate the city where I can get two different resources or at least one unique. Sometimes that's not possible so my next consideration is river/mountain/coast. Noticing everyone's location of the southernmost city in this game, I think I might value river locations too highly for expos. My location got a few snow hills ihstead of Deer and Plains hills - and also allowed Indonesia to sneak a city in to crowd my tiles, and I did it all for the river.
     
  9. TMNTurtle

    TMNTurtle Chieftain

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    That might be worth picking up a few desert tiles for, even though I criticized it I realise I spent quite a few turns in the midgame in unhappiness due to my city-states being flipped. I didn't expect it to be an issue because of
    Spoiler EDGE#1 :
    FoY

    but ended up there regardless, maybe I should have gone for those whales anyway...
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2020
  10. TMNTurtle

    TMNTurtle Chieftain

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    I usually never go for any of the early wonders because of the opportunity cost (and because pyramids don't appeal to peacemongers like me), but this time I expected the map to be a little cramped since it was a lakes map. So I was guessing space for three, maaaybe four cities. Going for a little extra growth couldn't hurt since I was shooting for the recommended win condition of Nukes and XCOMS, which meant science and what is growth but science? I saw three forests in close proximity to the hill I had chosen for my capital and decided to take another page from Tiberiu's playbook.
    Spoiler EDGE#110 Monty's Aztecs - T264 "accidental" CV :

    BO: scout x2 ToA

    ToA get's built at turn 31, I am a very average and/or precise student. And so it grows..

    Policies: Full Trad, 4 Ratio, 3 Order, 1 ratio, 2 order, 1 ratio, 2 order, also filled out aesthetics by the end.

    Ruins: spear upgrade, pop, faith (at exactly t20!) into god king, culture

    1 worker from spain, 1 from CS where I have to peace out to save my scout.
    Spain wants a DoF and then promptly denounces me on the next turn. I'd have to agree with mbbcam here, she is a weird one.

    EDGE#110 nice food.jpg
    Nice!

    EDGE#110 someone got lucky.jpg
    This is T7, someone got lucky...


    Realising everyone hates Genghis I denounce the nobhead and instantly I am friends with the entire map, free to turtle away now. T114 Perfect Acoustics+Rationalism timing, nice.

    T141 ST. I proposed WF for first congress and since science was fast it did not interfere with school's and I had factories online and was 5 hammers behind Hiawatha, but sponsored som cheap wars just to be sure, given that as Tiberiu has explained the mechanics of projects do not favour the player and subsequently won by 750 hammers, oupsie! Plan was order for a little extra science and production boost and food was so crazy I could run as many specialists as I pleased, freedom nonwithstanding.

    Plastics just before or on T180. Patro-Dandolo keeps buyng my CS, Gustavus has 3k gold and 2 turns left of DoF. I take it all and send Hiawatha his way for a mere 19 gpt. I have to hold some angry Caroleans off, but they're no match for infantry.

    EDGE#110 not the best spot.jpg
    Guys, maybe build that somewhere else?

    T200 borrow 2k, buying 3 med labs. Grow, grow, GROOOOW!

    After some tech order confusion in the modern era I realise that my culture is actually picking up and I have a shot at the CV, why not? T221 internet. Oxford Sattelites.

    T245 cap outgrows useful tiles/slots, unemployment is on the rise. T247 Hubble and doublebulb into Nano, which sees no use because order turned out to be a much stronger tree for culture than I had thought. Interesting...

    My only regret is not finding decent city positions that wouldv'e enabled internal food routes over one of the many lakes.

    13 WWs, nice: ToA, Sistine, LToP, Taj Mahal (engineered), PT, Broadway, Eiffel T, Cristo Redentor, Kremlin, Hubble, Neuschw..., CN Tower (engineered), Firewall.

    EDGE#110.jpg
     
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  11. Nizef

    Nizef Prince

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    Only Venice and Portugal had that privilege...
     
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  12. TMNTurtle

    TMNTurtle Chieftain

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    I dedicate this post to a certain AI, he is good at playing nice and probably has you fooled even now! He made it to number 5 for the "7 civilizations that make the game easier for you" due to being friendly. For the second of these two maps he was advertised "as nice as Deity AIs can be". There's just one problem... he is a good for nothing scheming scumbag!

    I've been looking for a good liberty+piety game for some time. I had some problems with DCL#26 Celts due to breaking the golden rule of liberty and a fat runaway. Two tries at DCL#7 Ethiopia with decent success, but I wasn't having any fun and quit before the endgame. EDGE#107 Poland was a lot kinder to me, but I have yet to pick up JE due to pious AIs and wanted to see it in action. Also I almost never pick up landmarks from tier 2 freedom, but boy there is some potential in that tenet. This map seems to sorta welcome either liberty or lib+piety, smooth journey indeed! Also nice to get to pick a strong panteon other than earth mother.

    Spoiler #91 Ethiopia - T285 mostly peaceful CV, show and tell with pictures :

    Policies: Left side liberty into piety -> reformation (TtGoG), 2 aesthetics for the midgame hammers, 4 rationalism, freedom to landmarks, finish aesthetics/freedom/piety

    BO: scout, stele, scoutx2, worker, settler x4(+1 free) -- absolutely garbage tier ruins but one culture so it's alrite, also my warrior ends up in the perfect spot to block Austrian settlers. With the first two expands blocking Askia and Nebs I then get to settle all of my dirt uncontested. Needless to say the two stooges become jelous and double-DoW at t50 but do not manage to actually march any units my way.

    EDGE#91 block.jpg
    No!

    EDGE#91 piety goodness.jpg
    Piety goodness


    6city NC into t120 Edu, this is where I would have liked to let JE shine, but my "buddy" Harun reformed first and as insult to injury doesn't wanna be my friend no more. He quickly changes tune though and Napoleon joins him so I can borrow some gold for a Uni eventually. Askia has been posturing his units about a dozen turns at my northern border and finally declares at T130. We restage the battle at the hot gates for a couple of turns until his Mandekalu cavalry arrive and i sue for peace.

    EDGE#91 120.jpg
    Ethiopia at T120

    T165 ST which let's me rushbuy schools in all three mountaincities. At T170 both DoF and RA terminate with Buonaparte, as I am 100 gpt in debt from school purchases I am happy to declare on him. I suddenly discover that my "friend" Harun wants to ban gold, after I'm done with runaway Ramses I'm gonna have to nuke this fella' as well!

    T176 sees a bulb for radio freedom since my factories are taking too long, in the WC arts funding passes while the gold ban fails, phew. T201 plastics + a WC where Ramses proposal of landmarks passes, a fateful miscalculation. You see, by that time I have realised that my cap has too low pop to rush Radio-wonders, while I already have some Prophets and scientists planted and inspired by Tiberiu's absolutely monstrous Inca capital from an earlier game I plant a few engineers to get things going. My lazy scouts finally find Cape town this turn allowing me to skip Satellites. Also my archeologists are digging up anything and everything I can find, so while the tourism game is not looking so hot things are about to change.

    My neighbours do not take kindly to having their lands dug up and at t220 Nebs launches a surprise attack, followed by Maria Theresa on t230. Their armies are painfully obsolete and i need one unit of infantry to defend against Babylon, but the austrians bring hussars, so I have to buff up my forces to two infantry. I'm actually happy for the reminder since I had planned to use Vienna for trade routes to the eastern civs and was about to go for it early, but seeing as she had adopted my religion and was being friendly the plans were scrapped.

    A bomber stack makes quick work of Vienna allowing for cargos to Egypt and Rome to increase tourism pressure. True to form Augustus refuses OB so i pay him to attack 4 civs to keep him busy, after a few turns he flip-flops on the border issue and tourism starts to ramp up. The fourth WC sees proposals for IG and WF at the same summit, I use my 18 votes to kill the WF-bill and slot alla available hammers for IG. Tourism catapults through the roof as four faith-bought musicians and a natural one worth 11 k tourism each make their way for what is now egyptian Vienna. I had planned to launch a few nukes, but eventually settled for a 55k musician bomb.

    EDGE#91 army.jpg
    Going in for the kill

    A meager 5 WWs built: Djenne, PT, SoL, Eiffel T, CN Tower (against Rameses 15! and Augustus 8)

    Culture to beat: irrelevant, nothing can stand up to 11k musicians

    EDGE#91 WIN.jpg EDGE#91 culture.jpg


    Also I had to try out Belgium.. At some point in the early game I started wondering where all that money was coming from. It actually doesn't feel overly powerful, but I like how the combination of the UA and chocolateries mean you can now go peaceful liberty and have a decent economy, instead of losing all your income to building maintenance.

    Spoiler MIDGE#5 - T259 DiploV :

    "[Harun], let's face it. And I'm not being funny, I mean no disrespect, but you're a [censored]. You're a [censored] now, you've always been a [censored]. And, the only thing that's gonna change is that you're gonna become an even bigger [censored]." - Ken, from 'In Bruges'

    Policies: Full liberty, ratio/commerce/freedom

    Plans of tradition into accidental monument into change of plans: liberty 7city T82NC. At T86 I delete one caravan, go go cargos! Also Haile's religion has pagodas and temple happy, let's sell OB and hope he cooperates. Harun's religion is comparably trash, but has DF so can be nice in Antwerp, unfortunately he spreads that superstitious crap to all of my cities. Very hard to worker steal indeed Nizef! So I rushbuy 2 workers, which seems suboptimal given the UA but i need them sooner rather than later to keep up.

    MIDGE#5 now where is all this gold coming from.jpg MIDGE#5 T82.jpg

    T112 Edu, 2 Universities bought. T125 Cathy informs me that "Harun is plotting against you", well go figure. T132 I found WC, yeah let's go WF it's gonna mess up my school/factory timings but lets try it. I starve my cap to achieve a 10 turn Pisa (powered by ironworks) Between turns 142 and 143 I manage to buy my first pagoda just before Harun reconverts the city on his turn, phew! I'm losing out on so much cpt due to the replacement of oral tradition and you might think that it is my own fault for losing out on a religion, and you'd be just about right...

    "You have to backstab people, like in real life I mean. Better to betray them before they betray you" - Tiberiu, on how to handle diplomatic relations with Bismarck's Germany

    Haile wants me to join a war against Lizzy, sure... just give me 10 turns or so. At T154 DoF finish, T157 RA finish, I buy his citystates and pay him to finally attack Lizzy, throwing in a war against the Zulu as a bonus. As I declare on him my gpt goes from nothing to 100+. His money already bought 4 schools. Am, am I the bad guy here?

    MIDGE#5 with borders like these.jpg
    With borders like these I find it impossible to know whether he is preparing for an assault or simply exercising his troops.

    T176 Oxford into Radio. T194 finally I can get copper from Napoleon, most of my cities have benn waiting for their WLTKD for thousands of years. T195 plastics+mercantilism with a T196 Big Ben and a few labs purchased.

    At this point things are coming along nicely and I lower my guard, so of course France attacks, followed by England. Now who could be the mastermind encouraging this agression? Not liking the current state of geopolitics I simply pay everyone I can to attack someone else for a few gpt. Not a moment too soon it seems, as Shaka comes for me the next turn.

    I'm still building labs, so my military of five or so units has to hold the fort for a couple of turns. At T216 I give Harun WC just for the hell of it and at T258 after refusing friendships for the entire game he finally shows his true colours with a declaration of war. Too little too late Harun. Thanks to "Arsenal of democracy" and everyone's favourite psycho Dido, I am now the leader of the free world. The devil made flesh, the heart of darkness has played almost nice all game long and now it's time for revenge.

    5 WWs built: LToP, Taj M, PT, SoL, BB

    MIDGE#5 win.jpg
     
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  13. Nizef

    Nizef Prince

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    I would like to recommend some games for you Turtle (and anybody who hasn´t tried them yet). I hope you don´t mind? Of the unmodded games I would love to read about your take on:
    EDGE#6 (It was thought to be a DomV, but the starting position is extremely good for a more peaceful journey (Liberty+Piety perhaps) and I am a little sad it never made it to the "hit charts".)
    EDGE#42 (Has been tried by many and most of us have found it difficult.)
    EDGE#48 (Lots of land and peaceful neighbours and definitely a prime target for a CV.)
    EDGE#49 (CV with Shaka. Have you tried it?)
    EDGE#68 (Stockholm will be the envy of the world.)

    Of the modded games, I would say that everybody who tried the crazy start in EDGE#5 with Byzantium, has given very positive feedback on it.
     
  14. TMNTurtle

    TMNTurtle Chieftain

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    On the topic of maps that didn't make the hit charts I would strongly recommend #92 Greece to anyone looking for a decent liberty map. It is quite possibly The best liberty map I have ever played on Deity, or at the very least in my personal top three. Because:
    Spoiler :
    Listen to this: 10 unique luxes within reasonable settling range (more if you decide to take out a few nearby CSs).
    While I went for peaceful liberty á la Acken, you would probably also have a great time using the liberty+patronage strategy previously suggested by Vadalaz for EDGE#94 in case you are more of a warmonger.

    Report will be available soonish...

    I actually started #6 at some point, unfortunately at the end of one of my civ-sessions and thus quit due to being a bit too tired. I suppose lib+piety could work, though if I remember correctly I think I'd rather go for 5-6 city tradition. We'll see.

    I started #42 with a liberty+piety ICS strat, which was a restart after finding a certain terrain feature that I thought would help out a lot with this. But I think I quit around t100 and later read up on one of the reports that had already gone super-wide liberty+piety. I still wasn't really feeling it and decided I was content with seeing someone else had already played a similar strat to completion.

    Quit #48 too due to not really feeling it, probably won't replay it.

    Wait a minute? How do you know this, do you get to see who downloads your files or what? Anyways, excellent map. Turtle zulu is the new meta and they succumbed to my musicians. You can expect a report in a few days...

    Yes, there certainly was a lot of buzz around that map. However, I realized that the way I would play it given the starting location would be very similar to how I played DCL#6 and therefore decided not to play it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2020
  15. Nizef

    Nizef Prince

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    Oh I was not aware of you trying out also the "older" maps. Thanks for sharing.

    Looking back at Greece in EDGE#92, my introduction was not very appealing. It is indeed a very interesting map with a lot of possible land to settle.
     
  16. raider980

    raider980 Warlord

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    Hmm, reading the description it sounds like a game I would like, (the Greece one too). Not sure why I haven't tried it. I'll give them a go when I'm done OECG1, I'm having a good time with that one.
     
  17. vadalaz

    vadalaz Emperor

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    Inspired by TMNTurtle, I finished #100 with a T188 Panzer DomV

    Spoiler :
    Autocracy bonuses plus Panzers sounded fun, so I thought I'd give this a go. Combined Arms isn't a particularly expensive tech, so I figured that 4-city Tradition would be one of the fastest ways to get there. It works very well for all the "SV-lite" games like Diplo, Futurism CVs etc.

    Scout - Scout - Archer - Settler opener. I got lucky with the UA and that one archer soon became three. Stole a bunch of workers from Mogadishu and Indonesia, built one or two myself as well. I went for 8 workers total, 2 per city.

    Spoiler Turn 50 :
    20200926103219_1.jpg
    The AIs didn't do well. I managed to build Mausoleum and Hanging Gardens in Hamburg and a T90s Petra in Munich. Askia and Ashur had desert starts but were too busy fighting each other. I also built the Oracle, Borobudur, Hagia Sophia, Machu Picchu, Chichen Itza (on turn 123!), LToP, Taj Mahal and PT.

    NC in the early 80s, Education T101 with an Engineering detour because I like trade routes.
    Spoiler Turn 100 :
    20200926140816_1.jpg
    Policies: Tradition -> Patronage to Scholasticism -> Rationalism to Secularism and Free Thought. Originally I was planning to finish Rationalism, but with only 2 cultural CSs allies I decided against it. Instead I went for double strategics and extra happiness from CSs (best decision I made this game) and 6 Autocracy tenets all the way up to Clausewitz's Legacy.

    Sci Theory around T140 with a bulb, T155 ideology. Sent the Industrial era spy to Babylon to steal some bottom-half techs while I was beelining Biology. Pretty uneventful game up until the very end, but there were some delightful moments like Nebby missing a free policy by 0.05 hammers:

    worldsfair.jpg

    Spoiler T150 :
    20200927080806_1.jpg
    And then comes the fiery end. I bulb 6 GSs and finish Oxford for T174 Combined Arms. Samarkand provides 14 Oil and the slaughter begins:

    panzer.jpg

    I'd built some Artillery for support, but it turned out that Panzers can handle even 80+ strength cities on their own.

    Mixed feelings about the endgame. On the one hand after 173 turns of setup I wish that the conquest lasted a bit longer, and that I could actually finish Prora and improve a lot of Oil to get something silly like 50 Panzers, but on the other it still feels good to take 7 capitals in 14 turns with ZOC-ignoring tanks, one-shotting Riflemen and pillaging everything along the way.

    Spoiler Victory :
    20200927204633_1.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2020
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  18. Nizef

    Nizef Prince

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    7 capitals in 14 turns!!! I know most of your games are outlandish. But this... this is art. I would really like to be able to "paint" like that one day! I am still laughing out loud. ;)
     
  19. TMNTurtle

    TMNTurtle Chieftain

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    Now that was a blitz if I ever saw one! A few questions if you don't mind, since I'm always looking to improve my game.

    How many cities would you prefer to settle for a Science-heavy game? I recall a discussion between Acken and Ironfighter after DCL#19 Aztecs, but they didn't seem to reach a clear consensus. Of course, I suppose what holds true specifically for the Aztecs might not hold true for other civs either.

    Is this your usual approach? It seems a bit more than what most "guides" recommend and I'm curious what kind of utility the last 1-2 workers add to a game like this. Was there something about the map that inspired this choice?

    Is this an approach you would recommend also for a 5-city tradition game or is it more useful to get some extra development when stuck on 4?

    With a sweep this fast, did you bother to hardbuild any tanks, or were they all bought outright?
     
  20. vadalaz

    vadalaz Emperor

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    Yeah, it's hard to give a definitive answer because it depends on the map, the civ and your playstyle. Assuming "neutrals" with decent dirt and not signing RAs, on Standard size I'd prefer at least 8 cities. With fantastic lands, good RA opportunities and an OP civ, you don't need as many cities.

    In my experience, two good indicators that you settled the right number of cities are:

    - you get from Plastics to victory in less than 30 turns
    - your final GS bulb is worth more than the cost of the last tech you need

    It's a pretty arbitrary rule of thumb I came up with when I was chasing fast science victories on Settler as the Shoshone. Getting 2 workers per city seemed to result in smooth gameplay and later I found that it worked well with 4-5 city Tradition on any difficulty. Tradition cities need to get big and the faster they get big the better, so I like to improve as many riverside farms as I can before reaching Civil Service. I really don't like working unimproved tiles, and this map in particular has a lot of really good tiles to improve and quite a lot of forest chops. Getting road connections a bit faster is a nice bonus too. You can always delete excess workers when you don't need them anymore.

    I'd say it actually makes even more sense for 5 cities, you can send the trade route to the 5th city to help it catch up, plus Engineering unlocks Aqueducts. With 4 cities if you're going for fast science it's probably better to skip Engineering, but in this game I wanted the trade route because one of my cities was struggling and I also wanted to complete a CS trade route quest. I suppose Scholasticism makes up for some of the science you lose by delaying universities, although I admit I didn't really think of that at the time.

    Yeah, I hard-built some of them. It was a 3-4 turn build in every city.
     
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