Epsilon Foreign Ministry

[DaveMcW]

Innovia discovered Civil Service and adopted Bureaucracy! That's pretty impressive from what I would have guessed about their economy. @ DaveMcW – should this adjust the discounts we've been proposing to pass out… esp in any deals to Innovia?

The tech-tech discount is based on our relative economies, so it's something to keep an eye on. But I think our economy is still so strong that we can afford (and they will demand) a discount.

We can offer even deeper discounts when trading gold-for-tech if they promise not to sell the same tech to other civs we know.

 

[General_W]

Ok - great. Thanks for responding Dave.

That makes sense to me - but you're the numbers king!

I'll continue the current policy full-steam-ahead until you start shouting at me!

 

[General_W]

Double post!

On a related topic… we haven't given a great amount of attention thus far to what the other teams may do with our technology once we trade it to them.

I've certainly tried to steer us towards charging higher prices on monopoly techs (ala our 60-70% offer on currency) and also offer very low prices on techs we know are likely to be traded by another nation (ala our recent 40% CoL deal with Loco)…

But here's the question – should we have a more firm policy on what our offers look like? Should we be trying to attach 'riders' to our tech deals to try to prevent others from trading our knowledge right away?

If we try to clamp down on the secondary market for our technologies, we risk coming across as bullies, or just flat out driving away our customers.

If we just continue trading business as usual, then we're risking 2 other nations with a close relationship (read: Innovia and Loco) getting smart and each buying 1 tech from us, then trading it to the other person… effectively halving our already low prices.

Now – we could just hold our noses and let this happen… figuring at least we're in the trading game and not being shut-out. But we would still risk slowing watching our tech lead evaporate… as is already taking place.​

Given our options, I know which direction I'm inclined… but I'm really not trying to run the Foreign Ministry like my own little kingdom, so I'd like to make plea for input and feedback… and I'll withhold my opinion till some people have a chance to respond.

If nothing else – if you like what I've been doing and the direction the Epsilon Diplomacy Corps is headed, I'd appreciate your mid-term support! We may need to make some quick diplomacy decisions in the coming 10 turns, and I want to make sure I can act in accordance with the team will even if I can't wait for team feedback.
Thanks!

 

[Memphus]

I think it will become evident if other teams "turn around" our techs to each other. We have to be the most involved team for watching all of the little details.

If we notice a team make a profit off of our deal with them the we coudl always increase the price next time.

Or alternatively we could lay out different options:

Ex: Offer a 40% Buy in Cash price and the Gaurantee of no trade for 20 turns.

Offer a 60% Buy in Cash price and Guarantee of no trade for 10 Turns

Offer a 80% buy in cash price and no second party trade restrictions.

This way the ball is always in the other teams court.

 

[DaveMcW]

My 40% number is built on the assumption that they turn around and trade it to everyone they can. Even if they do that, the numbers work out so we make a profit.

If a team guarantees that they will sell it to no one, we can make a profit on as low as 20% gold.

 

[General_W]

@Memphus - That's certainly an interesting idea… but I don't see how it really saves us any from my worry about looking like a bully and/or driving away business.
I mean, it's all well and good to say that they have a choice… but when we're holding a potential 40% cost-increase-gun to their head… they're likely to see it differently!

@Dave – really?!? - that's great news. I need to go see if I can find that math of yours again and see if I can see that.

To me, this means that anytime we're (potentially) competing with another team over a tech deal, we can go even lower than 40% if necessary. ie, anytime we're offering a trade and the potential trade partner knows someone else with that tech, our price can drop even further.

For example, if Innovia buys Currency, we can then move to sell it really cheap to Loco.

Still – the other teams apparently have not done the math on what a "fair" deal is in paying gold for tech… and so I plan to try to continue to negotiate for higher prices whenever it seems possible.

 

[peter grimes]

I'd be nervous about attaching trade restrictions, as these seem difficult to enforce.

Let's just let it ride for a while, and see if it really is a problem. If it becomes necessary, I like Memphus' approach.

 

[gbno1fan]

My theory is that if we have published our prices with all the other civs - meaning they all know they can buy whatever we have for 40% of the cost to research - then the civs we sell to will have to undercut us even further in order to sell it.

Example:
We sell Code of Laws to Innovia for 40%. Innovia then tries to sell it to Piffle for 50% and Piffle says "we can get that from Epsilon for 40%." So Innovia is forced to lower the price below 40%. At levels so low, they may not find it profitable to sell the tech. They'd practically be giving it away along with their tech advantage.

 

[peter grimes]

So Innovia is forced to lower the price below 40%. At levels so low, they may not find it profitable to sell the tech. They'd practically be giving it away along with their tech advantage.

Now replace the term "Innovia" with "Epsilon"

 

[General_W]

Some good stuff here – thanks for taking the time to speak up.

Gbno1fan makes a good point that I had been discounting… which is that teams that buy from us will have some costs that they need to recoup. That doesn’t mitigate the threat of a coordinated effort to catch us, but then again – we're vulnerable to that anyway… at least on our current path we make some while our enemies plot against the dear Leader.

All-in-all, I feel like I'm getting a pretty good grip on what the team wants – keep selling techs, try to get good prices, and use creative payment plans if necessary to try to stall out the secondary market.

So far, I'm proud of what we've accomplished diplomatically, and I'm optimistic that we'll continue to excel.

Thanks to all!

 

[Memphus]

Some good stuff here – thanks for taking the time to speak up.

Gbno1fan makes a good point that I had been discounting… which is that teams that buy from us will have some costs that they need to recoup. That doesn’t mitigate the threat of a coordinated effort to catch us, but then again – we're vulnerable to that anyway… at least on our current path we make some while our enemies plot against the dear Leader.

All-in-all, I feel like I'm getting a pretty good grip on what the team wants – keep selling techs, try to get good prices, and use creative payment plans if necessary to try to stall out the secondary market.

So far, I'm proud of what we've accomplished diplomatically, and I'm optimistic that we'll continue to excel.

Thanks to all!

Building the Great Library and Our Religion Spreading Building isn't going to help our forign affairs...

Do we expect to see a draft soon?

 

[General_W]

- that could be problematic... but given that we've gotten almost NO blowback from any teams except Piffle on having Civil Service so quick, I doubt either of these things will really upset anyone. Guess we'll see!

I'll draft a Great Library announcement tonight... and start work on one for our Holy City....

 

[General_W]

Ok - I had a brain storm for our GL announcement, and wanted to post it right away to see if anyone had other good ideas to add to the list … please post your ideas asap, so I can get this announcement out in the UN…

Dear Scholars and Wisepeople of the World…

Epsilon Team would like to formally announce the grand opening of, "The Great Library!" ​

All World leaders and distinguished thinkers of every land are cordially invited to the opening ceremonies.

Our Chief Librarian, in recognition of the fact that trying to find a book in these vast halls can be rather intimidating, has compiled a Must Read list of books as place for you to get started.

Enjoy!

For the Military Strategist:

• "I Win!" by U. Lose
• "Danger!" by Luke Out
• "Tug of War" by Paul Hard
• "Get Out There!" by Sally Forth
• "Military Defeats" by Major Disaster and General Mayhem

For the International Diplomat:

• " Cry Wolf" by Al Armist
• "I'm Fine" by Howard Yu
• "I Say So!" by Frank O. Pinion
• "Leo Tolstoy" by Warren Peace

For the Domestic Minister:

• "Good Works" by Ben Evolent
• "More for Your Money" by Max Amize
• "Off To Market" by Tobias A. Pigg

For the Wanna-be World Dictator:

• "Military Rule" by Marshall Law
• "Tyrant of the Potatoes" by Dick Tater
• "The Past to the Future" by I. C. All

Any other great ideas to add?

 

[gbno1fan]

That's great. My fiance' and I both had the laugh of the week reading it.

I can't think of any that you haven't already.

By the way, where do you get this stuff?

 

[General_W]

Thanks GB! glad you enjoyed it!

The idea just came to me... (don't know what that says about me as a person... ) but then I did a google search for ideas on the book names beyond the couple I knew.

 

[peter grimes]

That's FUNNY!

Post it, please!

 

[peter grimes]

In response to the Mid-Term graphs that the Department of Counting Stuff posted in the State of The Empire:

Why don't Innovia's numbers show up?

 

[Memphus]

I like it alot, but I would like to see a picture in there somewhere

 

[General_W]

Thanks!

Now Posted... with an image!!

@ Petter... Innovia is the Green Line. (Saggion the Wise One is Innovia)

 

[peter grimes]

D'oh!

Thanks for making too many jokes at my expense, General Obvious