[EQMC1] Elite QM Challenger - Game One - Hi Everyone! :)

[iggymnrr]

Chariots have a big edge over axe. Now you have to worry whether Brennus also gets to construction and those phants.

 

[Absolute Zero]

What tech did you get from the Oracle?

MC, I think, since he's building Forges.

In hindsight, early rush would not have worked. Waiting for cats is probably a good idea.

 

[huerfanista]

I played a shadow game using the strategy that I recommended earlier.

First spoiler simply lays out the strategy in general terms, no map or AI spoilers:

Spoiler :

Take metal casting from the Oracle built in Nidaros. Chop out a forge and run an engineer for a 60-40 chance at an GE to bulb machinery. Tech to CS, build zerks and siege, knock heads. Make nice with the neighbors until then, with a small 4 city empire with virtually no military early on.

Second spoiler gives the end game result, no map or AI spoilers:

Spoiler :

1504 conquest victory, 188930 score.

Third spoiler gives game details, with map and AI spoilers.

Spoiler :

I settled 1W and started building a worker while teching Ag. Early build order was worker> WB> warrior> warrior> settler> worker> WB> settler> worker> warrior. Opening techs were Ag> mining> BW> wheel> myst> meditation> PH> pottery> AH.

In 2430BC Uppsala was founded 1E of the oasis to the north of the capital. Brennus founded buddhism, and we couldn't profitably settle closer to his cultural borders.

In 1900BC the Oracle was completed in Nidaros, taking MC as the free tech. A forge was immediately chopped out and an engineer was assigned. Teching continued through sailing> masonry> writing.

In 1590BC Haithabu was founded to grab the copper + gold spot on the east coast. A monument, granary, and library were built there, then the Moai statues were started. Alphabet was the next tech, and IW was traded from Brennus for it. Neither Augustus nor Darius had writing yet. Research continued through math> currency> CoL (confucianism founded in Haithabu).

In 1210BC the GLH was completed in Nidaros, and around that time a great prophet was born there (rats! ). In the first of many moves, he was settled instead of saved for the shrine in Biberacte.

In 900BC the Colossus was completed in Nidaros.

In 470BC a GM was born in Nidaros. He was saved until monarchy could be traded for (330BC), and then used to partially bulb CS, which was done in 290BC,

HBR was acquired through trade in 170BC, and research on machinery was done in 80BC (ZERKS! ). Zerks were built everywhere, along with a few cats.

In 30AD construction was traded for after putting some turns of research into it, and engineering was started next. It completed in 400AD, and a few turns were put into feudalism so that it could be traded for in 500AD.

Up to this point there had been some inconsequential warring between Darius and Brennus, but that stopped once Darius adopted buddhism. Augustus had been an early adopter as well, so everyone was happy and our diplomatic relations with Brennus were friendly.

In 520AD I have a brain fart and realize that I've forgotten to switch to bureaucracy for the last 810 years. I immediately revolt to it.

In 580AD, with a big pile o' zerks and trebs, we break the bad news to Brennus that he is being relieved of his empire due to rampant mismanagement. 2 cities fall in the first 2 turns with no losses (he doesn't have feudalism yet, so I only face GWs, axes, and archers).

In 610AD guilds is completed, followed by banking in 690AD. By 680AD I've captured 9 cities from the celts and haven't lost a zerk yet. A treb or 2 was sacrificed to the gods of war in a some hilled cities, but victory has been overwhelming. He's the only AI (that we know of) who has calendar, so in 695AD I take peace when he's down to 1 crap city on the north coast in return for calendar. I promptly build the MoM for uber-GAs. Augustus had joined the dogpile against the celts late in the war, and in yet another move I bribed him out of the war with CS so that he wouldn't take a spice city that I coveted. Darius vassaled to him, and they both soon had maces. Not that it mattered.

In 730AD I DoWed both of them while Rome was again at war with the celts. I quickly took 1 city from the Persians and 2 from the Romans, but when Auggie showed up with a big stack of HAs and cats just as I was about to take a second city from him I finished capturing the city and took peace. This was yet another move - I should have left 1 of his units alive in the city so he would move his stack into it. Not my smartest game.

In 800AD I finished research on philosophy, found taoism (slow tech pace, eh?)

In 805AD the romans build the AP, but OFC I get control with my huge empire:

In 865AD paper is done, and in 910AD the romans finally finish off the hapless celts.

Darius breaks away from the Romans, sensing a sinking ship. They're right, OFC, but it won't help them. In 925AD I declare on Rome with a reinforced stack of zerks, knights, and trebs, and lay waste to their empire. In 995AD I finally get a GP and build the Mahabodhi shrine. The economic effects are dramatic. I leave Rome with 1 crappy city in return for aesthetics in 1065AD. Optics was completed in 945AD, PP in 1005AD, RepParts in 1105AD, literature in 1115AD.

I declare on Persia in 1130AD. Nationalism is completed in1205AD and the Taj is started in Nidaros. In 1250AD the Persian civilization is destroyed, and in 1260AD I declare on the romans. I take their 2 cities in1285AD, and Augustus sleeps with the fishes.

Education is done in 1290AD, the Taj is completed in in 1345AD, followed by economics in 1360AD (free GM). Galleys had been sent out earlier, meeting Bismark and Hannibal. Suryavarman, it seems, had been the victim of a barbarian uprising long ago. I get OB with both the germans and carthaginians.

In 1362AD I take astronomy as the free tech from liberalism. In 1366AD I prove the world is round, and our already speedy navy becomes even faster.

I'll summarize the tech order that followed: GP> rifling> constitution> democracy> music> MilTrad> chemistry> steel> SciMeth> communism. I built both the SoL and the Kremlin. The GM was sent on a TM to Carthage, netting a whopping 7500

Galleons are built everywhere, along with cavalry and a few rifles. Our rather large stack of CR3+ zerks are upgraded to rifles, and trebs become cannon. In 1480AD were ready to put the other continent under new management:

This quickly results in:

Followed by:

Resulting in:

Zerks make nice riflemen:

I built a couple of wonders in the beginning, captured a bunch in the middle, and built a bunch at the end:

Power:

GNP:

Manufacturing:

Cities:

Darius and Augustus got screwed by their start locations and surrounding land. Our start was good, but we really only had 1 decent city site other than the capital. But you really don't have to knock yourself out on an early rush to win big. I let Brennus build my empire for me while I concentrated on getting the very nice Viking UU up and running early enough to be unstoppable. I left the AIs in the dust with the GLH/Colossus combo, which is very strong for a financial civ. Some good riverside cottages were a big help as well, and a city near the marble worked those cottages early on so that Nidaros was free to do other things.

 

[jayjackson]

What tech did you get from the Oracle?

Have you not got sailing yet? It doesn't look like the copper city is connected to your trade route.

No, I haven't, next tech on the list, so it'll be in by the time the copper is up.

 

[iggymnrr]

Spoiler :

Tried a quick rush from the 1910ish save. No problems. Got the capitol, pillaged the iron, and killed both Brennus' axemen for the cost of 3 chariots. He's down to just 2 archers now and can't get more than 1 quickly. Used the settler to settle on top of phants, fastest way to raise the happy cap, cows and bananas will come online soon enough. The economy won't crash too hard. Maybe the Oracle will get built or not. Don't really care. HBR is now probably enough to clear the land mass, Epults in reserve. Gold and the holy city is nice too.

 

[jayjackson]

It kind of hurts seeing how bad I really am.

 

[vicawoo]

Spoiler :

Tried a quick rush from the 1910ish save. No problems. Got the capitol, pillaged the iron, and killed both Brennus' axemen for the cost of 3 chariots. He's down to just 2 archers now and can't get more than 1 quickly. Used the settler to settle on top of phants, fastest way to raise the happy cap, cows and bananas will come online soon enough. The economy won't crash too hard. Maybe the Oracle will get built or not. Don't really care. HBR is now probably enough to clear the land mass, Epults in reserve. Gold and the holy city is nice too.

I'm glad you showed those "it's too late, he has iron!" naysayers when it's a marathon prince game.
On immortal, they always have iron and maybe a spear by the time you attack, and you don't have the double unit marathon bonus.

Did you try whipping chariots? You lose some overflow, but you should get 2 for 1 on marathon.

 

[jayjackson]

I really am kind of lost for how *I* should proceed from this point, though.

 

[vicawoo]

You wasting too many hammers on buildings. Forges take a long, long time before they are a net positive in hammers. Get more land, particularly the pig/hills city. You could say you're running almost 100% research ... or you could say that by 1000 BC you're only producing 29 beakers per turn.

You don't go granary first? Libraries before them? Even if you get construction, you still need units to kill the defenders, which means axes/horses.

 

[iggymnrr]

Your not bad, just need nerves.

Spoiler :

Yes, whipped chariots. AI won't whip until threatened by which time it's too late. At the moment I'm screwing around until 1 AD. It's now 380 BC and Persepolis, with the Great Lighthouse, has just fallen to HAs and chariots. Moved capitol to Brennus' capitol oracle'd calender, teched ironworking, sailing, HBR, currency, CoL in some order. Picked up a barb city and worker in the jungle.

On a sour note my crabs got pillaged by a barb galley so worked cottages instead. (Aw shucks. LoL)

Edit:

Spoiler :

Played to 90 BC when Augustus died. Axed his iron on the go, he whipped cats after that. None lived long enough. Ran him over with HAs. Naturally Persepolis' crabs got pillaged by a barb galley. Oh well, own the land mass. Need to get ready for work.

 

[jayjackson]

Didn't have the chance to play a turn tonight because of work problems, but will be playing after work tonight. Looking for ideas based on the current information as to how we should proceed from this point, especially from you more advanced players as I can tell from reading a touch of the shadow game without the spoilers that I am far from optimal and need work.

Thanks for being still interested, if you are!

 

[huerfanista]

There are lots of ways to play the game. Chariot rushes are perfectly viable, but you need to commit to them from the start. You need to decide where to go from here. Do you want to go for early war (axes/cats), or later war (zerks/cats/trebs)? An early war means no chasing the GLH/Colossus/GLib - you should be building axes everywhere right now, followed by cats. You will be in big trouble if Brennus gets HBR/contruction for WEs. If you're going for later war, you should be building the GLH and colossus in Nidaros, and settling another city near the marble to work cottages for the capital. Later war is certainly viable, and will be much easier than a cats/axes war, but you're already deviating from that path. Construction is easily traded for later, CS and machinery are the big priority. Colossus will be a huge benefit in your copper city with 4 coast tiles. But make your decision now, don't waffle between and early/later war (like chasing for the GLib). I can't open your save now, but if you have stable relations with Brennus (i.e., same religion) you can certainly avoid military until you have zerks. But you're already waffling: you went for an early zerk startegy (oralce MC, bulb machinery) and then decided that maybe you should chariot rush, and then decided maybe axes/cats war. As a result, you're wasting by continually switching startegies. Pick one and stick to it! If you're going for a zerk war, you should have gone math> currency> CoL> CS after writing while waiting for a GE to pop (hopefully). If you're not going that route, then start building axes everywhere, followed by cats. Be ruthless in chopping and whipping, and don't go to war with a half-assed army. A dozen axes and the same number of cats will be needed. Scout Brennus out carefully before hand, and map out your lines of attack. Know where his strategic resources are and be prepared to pillage them ASAP. GWs in hill cities will be a bear, so expect losses. Good luck. Personally, I'd go for the later war. GLH/Colossus can get you a big tech lead (4 TRs - with currency - in 3 coastal cities, all of them foreign, and 4 coast), and even if you have bad luck in popping a GP instead of a GE you can still get zerks in the BCs. They will steamroll everything in their path, including longbows.

 

[iggymnrr]

Look forward to seeing your game progress. It's still early in your game.

Played out my game mainly because I have never staged an intercontinental invasion with Zerks. This account may be a bit boring as domination games sometimes aren't too exciting.

Recap at 1 AD

Spoiler :

Rome has recently fallen to the only epult built. HAs were so fast it barely made it to the last city in time.


Economy is at 10 % and the continent has to be filled up. Spam settlers and build granaries, courthouses and lighthouses. A fleet has to be built and astro will be accessed via the liberalism bulbing path. Music and drama will be picked up at some point. Great Library will be the second and last wonder built. (Darius donated the GLH and Ceasar, the mids.) Build zerks, lots of zerks. Eventually only wealth will be built and science turned off.

The Dogs of War.

Spoiler :

The primary target is Surry, then Biz. An inland stack is ready to move on Surry. At sea 17 galleons are full. Around 45 zerks are on board and enough other stuff to fill 17 galleons. (No good screenshot for this. Minimap does show a lot of purple dots along both coasts of the continent.


Simultaneous DoW Surry and Biz. Surry is very weak but Biz has longbows, but enough land for domination. 7 cities are taken on the opening salvo. The ones building culture.


Surry is dead in 880 AD. Biz is let off the hook in 915 AD.


3 cities are settled back home for the domination win. (920 AD, ~206k.)

Expenses were Brutal

Spoiler :