European super-state: the sooner the better

Originally posted by Glaurung
and, corn, united world will never happen. it is impossible. the mere weight of 'it' would cause it to topple before 'it' would even be completed. kind of like when you try to expand to far under despotism(in civ). definately will never happen.
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One: World Politics is not a game. And should not be compared to a game.
Two: It will happen. Maybe not in my life time, and maybe not the way I want it to happen (ie. It will come about after war or ecological distaster instead of a peaceful process) but it will happen.

It's pig-headed people like you that think it won't happen and WILL cause it to happen after a distaster, which could have been avoided if people would just work together. Granted it won't be a perfect union.....but it is necessary to human survival.
 
I'm for a world state because I believe it would stop many wars (not all as you will get rebels who may start civil war) but I realize its never going to happen, at least not in our lifetime. There are too many disagreeing sides. A European Super-State would be the first step towards this, though. I think what is likely to happen is you are going to end up with a few giant superpowers (like in those late 20th century Civ2 scenarios) who won't agree on anything who may end up going to war.
 
"One: World Politics is not a game. And should not be compared to a game.
Two: It will happen. Maybe not in my life time, and maybe not the way I want it to happen (ie. It will come about after war or ecological distaster instead of a peaceful process) but it will happen.

It's pig-headed people like you that think it won't happen and WILL cause it to happen after a distaster, which could have been avoided if people would just work together. Granted it won't be a perfect union.....but it is necessary to human survival."

well, if you believed in god, which i know you do not, then, yes, i believe there will be a "world union", but that it will not be of man.

about your statement about 'human survival': what do you mean by it? are you inferring that humans will continue as a species on the earth for infinity? that sounds kind of pig headed and close minded to me. it is impossible, both if you believe in god or you do not. besides, it would never be allowed to happen peacefully, and if it is forced, it would be doomed to crumble from the beginning. governments should not and cannot force ideas, opinions, anything on the people. it is morally and legally wrong. now if we are talking inter-stellar travel here, then it would be feasible on other planets, merely because one nation could claim a whole planet.

but, otherwise, youve just been listening to too much CREED.:rolleyes:

an earth union is impossible. unless were talking in a 'Christ's millenial reign' type thing.

:nuke:theres your world union right there, corn:nuke:

and dont call me pig headed, bee atch
 
I'll call you pig headed if I want.

And of course I don't believe in God. True Communists can't. Religion and belief in higher powers, hold back humanity, and create alteritive motives for people. If one believes in God(s) then humanity will surely fall.

But 2 things can happen to humanity.

1) We will flurish throughout the Universe, and sow our seeds and wisdom through the universe. Eventually evolving into other life forms.

2) Or we will destroy ourselves. May God have mercy on our souls. :rolleyes:
 
"I'll call you pig headed if I want."

no, you cant, especially because you are mod.

and, there has always been a belief in higher powers. only recentley has there been any 'atheism'. we have survived thousands of years with it, because it is the truth. but, try and stay on topic, cowboy.

please try and explain to me how a united world order is possible. and, you surely can not say communism. that system is too inherently corrupt that it could never work on such a grand scale as the whole world.

and you seem to think: "well, we will have the whole world united, one way or another."

that is more comparing it to a game than anything else! its not just going to happen. one cant just say, oh, itll happen, by economics or war or peace or whatever. there is no reason for it to happen, and the people in power would never let it happen. they will do all in their power to retain as much power as possible. i dont even want to think about communism as the world government. it makes me sick.

"True Communists"

atheism is just a propaganda tool of communism. and, i would bet my money on that you are not a true communist.

"alteritive motives for people"

if i were a communist, i would sure want an alternative motive. it must be boring going to work every day, and earning much less than one can live off, and not having anything to live for. seriously, what is there to live for if you cant live for happiness. why not just die and get this pathetic existance over with.

dont call me pigheaded, bee-atch.
 
if it's not "going to happen in our lifetime", then what is the point of an argument?

most people disagree that this would never happen because "There are too many disagreeing sides".......maybe like this dumb argument here?? it doesn't matter who is right or wrong, the point is that it seems all people have different views and ideas; and that's because of their different backround....
this would be one reason why it wouldn't work...but who says it cant?! for you christians, look at that proverb of Job-->doesn't it explain to man that he will never understand all that there is?! and for you communists, ... , well ....:lol:

my point, again, is that just peoples simple but different views is one reason why this wouldn't happen and if it could, it is completely contrary to even taking sides in any argument
 
I feel that a united european confederation could be a very useful balancing force for a better future. Both China and India desire to move up the world power ladder (perhaps to recapture old empires). A united europe could be a great force for peace.

We americans swing back and forth between being a superpower and being isolationist. Prior to 9-11 president bush seemed to be taking the isolationist road (Clinton to (ei Landmine treaty))

I believe a politcal/ecomonic union that could take lead from a non american point of view would benfit all.
Think of it, along some asiatic border a confict becomes an all out war. As the confilict wears on the people get upset as more
soldiers die. European peace negotions might be more useful then american. Our record is mixed at best
 
Originally posted by thapagan
I feel that a united european confederation could be a very useful balancing force for a better future. Both China and India desire to move up the world power ladder (perhaps to recapture old empires).
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Just a side-point, China today already covers more territory than most of its imperial dynastic predecessors. India has never been more united now than for the past 1000+ years since the time of Harsha. The Mughals never really managed to subdue southern India completely. So the idea than China and India are trying to recapture old empires is misleading.
But I think you mean China and India are trying to recapture their former paramount international positions and prestige. I don't know about India but China is definitely working along that line right now.
 
Originally posted by Glaurung
no, you cant, especially because you are mod.
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I have already twice. :p And MOD'ness has nothing to do with it.

and, there has always been a belief in higher powers. only recentley has there been any 'atheism'. we have survived thousands of years with it, because it is the truth. but, try and stay on topic, cowboy.
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I didn't say there wasn't. Your putting words in my mouth. People have gotten along ok. Believe it or not...people are children. Everyone. And in order to keep order and have some peace people have created these "Gods" to "guide" us. But come on.....were not children anymore, and it's childish to believe in these "Gods". Obviously most of us aren't ready to move on, but when most of the world matures and sees the big picture, they will drop these false Gods and embrace our fellow man, and THAT'S the time I would want to live. Not now, where fear and ignorance reins free.

please try and explain to me how a united world order is possible. and, you surely can not say communism. that system is too inherently corrupt that it could never work on such a grand scale as the whole world.
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It's not Communism that will make it happen, but it's similar to Communism. When will people realize that money isn't everything and how the world works...isn't how the world HAS to work. Why do people fear change so much?? We could design a much more efficent week, month or year.....but people don't do it?? Why?? It would make life MUCH easier. If people would just think long term instead of it's horrible short sightness....the world would be a much better place.

and you seem to think: "well, we will have the whole world united, one way or another."

that is more comparing it to a game than anything else! its not just going to happen. one cant just say, oh, itll happen, by economics or war or peace or whatever. there is no reason for it to happen, and the people in power would never let it happen. they will do all in their power to retain as much power as possible.
Click to expand...

I didn't not compare it to a game!!! Sheesh...and I can say it will happen, because it will...or we will be destroyed. It will only go one of two ways.....and we will eventually be destroyed anyway. So although it doesn't matter, humanity has a much longer lifespan if we stick together.

atheism is just a propaganda tool of communism. and, i would bet my money on that you are not a true communist.
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Nope.....Atheism is the first step toward world cooperation and humanities "Golden Era".

dont call me pigheaded, bee-atch.
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I'm entitiled to my opinion.
 
I think a stronger European Union is the way to go, though this really depends on motives.

The idea of a European Union that would better be able to facilitate economic prosperity, social services, security, foreign policy, etc. etc. etc. is a great idea, and a must. The idea of a European Union that is Euro-nationalistic, hedonistic, and craving more power in the larger world is not appealing. In other words, if the point of a European Union is to make Europe a better place to live, then I support it as necessary. If the point however is for Europe to attempt to re-create the "Good Old Days" of European world dominance, then it is a collosal mistake. The problem is I hear both voices in Europe. "Euro-nationalism" worries me.

TheDuckofFlanders wrote:Excelent oppinion.Just a question to you American's ,if europe would become a second superpower ,could you live with it that they (we europeans) could criticize youre foureign policy more?and maybe that European's would take their own steps in foureign policy toward's other nation's ,and that those policy's wouldn't be always on the same line as America's foureign policy?
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Europe and the U.S. already have many differences, and they work them out. It would probably be advantageous for the Americans to have a full partner in the world, and so long as they both remain focused on their general points of agreement - Democracy, free market economies, human rights, etc. - then any of the usual disagreements that arise will be resolved through political channels.

I don't think Europe will ever evolve into a superpower though, for a couple reasons.

1. When I lived in Hungary in the late 1980s and early 90s, I watched as European diplomacy fumbled repeatedly in dealing with the Yugoslav crises. Europe couldn't speak with one voice. The European Union made some announcement on policy, then the German and Italian governments did one thing to aid the Croatians while the French did another to aid the Serbs... It went on and on. Even ignoring the 2000 years of history in Europe that have given every European people their traditional allies and enemies (and thus foreign policies), there is no mechanism in the EU now to channel the different approaches, or even define what a common European policy should be. Every world crisis since the signing of Maastricht has shown the same problem. This is not a recipe for leadership.

2. The age of world superpowers is just about past, I believe. The Americans now have a President who thinks it's 1872 and the United States can unilaterally do whatever it wants. However, the reality is - as the 11. September crisis revealed - the world is far more inter-connected and inter-laced than he imagined. Cooperation is the way things will have to be done in the future. America wil not decline or be conquered, but rather slowly blend into a larger world environment where states are necessarily dependent upon one another. Countries will not disappear; on the contrary they will still be the principal political unit. There are fears about a rising China, but China is already finding that its growing prosperity and wealth is increasingly bound to world factors it has no control over. It must behave to remain connected to that larger world. Among the most impoverished of the least-developed societies there is a belief that this inter-connectedness is just a Western conspiracy to re-take the world - hence, people like bin Laden - but in reality the West has little control over things either. We're all in this together, and if everyone plays their cards right then it will be a better world. Perfect? No - never with humans - but better than those which we've known so far.
 
A little correction...

1. Toldo
2.
3. F. de Boer
4. Stam (but I don't like him)
5. Cannavaro
6. Nesta
7. Zidane/Davids
8. Beckham
9. Raul
10. Totti/DelPiero/Baggio
11. Kluivert/Van Nistelrooy/Schevchenko

I see there are no german players...
 
Hey Europe! If you guys form a supre state can Canada join? Please!!!! Anything to get us out of NAFTA!!
 
At least they don't think that England is another state of their country...:D

Running away from NAFTA into the EU...
 
Originally posted by Glaurung
"I'll call you pig headed if I want."

no, you cant, especially because you are mod.(..)
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If certain mod here wouldn't permit me to quote him just because of this,
I would have lots to say...
 
Originally posted by Juize


If certain mod here wouldn't permit me to quote him just because of this,
I would have lots to say...
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One more Spam in a thread like this Juize, and you will earn yourself another week off.

You DO NOT have the right to editorialize about the moderation whenever you feel like it.

Stay on topic, or you will be gone, and that INCLUDES this.

If you answer here, you are gone.

You want to talk, PM me, but STAY ON TOPIC.
 
I liked what Vrylakas had to say about American foriegn policy, becoming more interconnected. The America first-ers have to go. The world is way to small for that now.

I dont see Europe becoming anything more than a loose confederation, if that. However, I hope it works, because there is a need for some counter balance to America somewhere in the world. I would much rather it be Europe than China, Russia or some other, less benign country or union.

I believe some of our actions on the world stage are not well thought out, but motivated by domestic politics, and powerful lobbies. It would be nice if another world power would have an opinion that US leaders would have to consider, before acting.

I think a EU is just what the doctor ordered. But only if its leader was the Duck of Flanders, and not Graeme the Mad.;) :lol:
 
Rhye wrote: Why not? After all, Canada is a little more "european" than USA.
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You haven't visited western Canada, have you? Eastern Canada, especially Quebec, look as much to Europe as southward for cultural inspiration, but the farther westward you move the less true that is. BC and Alberta both have local political groups calling for secession from Eastern Canada, and have formed trade pacts with the Pacific northwest American states. These are the only two provinces in the whole dominion who pay more federal taxes than they receive back, and they're fed up with having a situation where most of the political power is focused on the East Coast. The U.S. is weighted with a large population in California, etc. on its western coast but Canada's western population is still sparse and diffused, with some exceptions.

The point is that Ontario, Quebec, Newfoundland, New Brunswick and maybe Manitoba may like the Euro-focus, but the estern provinces are far more conservative and independent-minded.
 
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