However, if you look more to the message of agnosticism beyond pastafarianism, you could say it's 100% right.
Evil Atheist Thread
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However, if you look more to the message of agnosticism beyond pastafarianism, you could say it's 100% right.
Swedishguy
Deity
Well, if you gain benefits from believing in Father Christmas, that's bad. I want to rid the world of narrowminded people such as Christians.
I know, I was explaining to him as much as to you that what he says of "all" atheists is true only of some, but not of none.
Actually, I think that Bast, and also I think Atticus, and a whole lot of the people who are making what seem absurd claims about the evils of atheism in this thread, are atheists themselves.
Although I will note that if someone is a sociopath and only fear of divine retribution keeps them from going on a killing spree, said fear is probably a good thing.
Wonderful to see that you have freed yourself from narrowmindedness.
brennan
Argumentative Brit
Surely that would be to miss the entire point of the FSM.
Swedishguy
Deity
Why are you so sure? How do you know that the FSM doesn't have unknown qualities?
You must be joking. Theists waste millions on religious books and buildings. Religious wars in the past aren't cheap either. Think of all that money wasted due to religion.
Come on. You don't live in Heaven. You live on Earth. You live in societies that have laws. The thing that's stopping you from committing a horrible crime is to face the punishment from the society you live in. And clearly, religion doesn't stop people from doing horrible things. The Mafia is supposedly Catholic, and that doesn't stop their actions. In Christianity, you can ask for forgiveness, so you're free from your crime after you think god forgives you.
Yes, it was of course hyperbole, I just didn't want to mention it because it would be like explaining your jokes. Also Eran guessed it right, I am atheist in the sense that I don't believe in God (but not in the stronger sense that I would deny the possibilty of god's existence).
Now little more explicitly, most atheist or agnostics are decent folk, but some, especially young ones, can be very aggressive. Many of them seem to be building sense of superiority by arguing against christians, which at least in this part of the world is very much like arguing against children against existence of Father Christmas, since converting is done mostly by Jehova's witnesses who doesn't offer very good arguments (this isn't meant as an insult, only description).
I don't think belief in god itself can be shown to be inconsistent, if you don't suppose that believer takes the Bible literally for example. Believers on the other hand might have had experiences which give basis to their beliefs, or they might choose to believe someone who has had such experiences. Those feelings aren't on the same level that eyesight or hearing: ordinary senses can trick us too, but we all share those senses. In this case atheists do not use their "inner deity-sense" to observe that there is no god, but they lack that sense (at least I do, and please if someone is going to deny this, do it on genuine feeling, not just because you can deny it).
Now as believers can't demand that other people take that feeling as convincing argument, neither can non-believers deny that that feeling is valid argument for the believer to build his/hers own worldview.
At this point some atheists stop claiming that they can show belief in god inconsistent, and start to argue about negative consequences of religion: historical atrocities (which of course are historical, and not valid therefore), and contemporary narrowmidedness. However this is not efficient way to broaden their mind. If someone has strong feeling of god, he very unlikely abandons his belief due to any arguments on the existence of god. Instead you can broaden his mind from inside of his beliefs. At least for christians it is more than possible, Jesus didn't preach for bigotry.
Umm....OK? While you're launching your atheistic crusade, I'll be over here not caring. I think my faith is true, and it makes me happy, and if that really bothers you or makes you think that I'm narrowminded, then you're really just a rather small person.
Swedishguy
Deity
All right, I'm not gonna try to convert you. I hope you find the truth someday.
I think it's very telling that the worst serious claim anyone has come up with this thread is atheists "attacking" religion.
I mean, with religion we have everything from violent acts, to trying to force their beliefs on others through the laws of even western countries. And the worst atheists do is that they freely speak out that they don't like this.
"Attacking", "Crusade" - you use these words metaphorically, when for religions they can be literal.
If all theists ever did was sit around debating religion and only "attacked" by speech, and only did so with those who engaged debate with them, I doubt anyone would care. I doubt Dawkins or those other atheists would care either, in fact; there'd no longer be a need to fight back at religion.
Here's a good post about what many atheists are pissed off about: http://gretachristina.typepad.com/greta_christinas_weblog/2007/10/atheists-and-an.html . And the worst we do is "fight" back at that.
Of course, by engaging in debate on a thread that's set up to debate atheism, I'll no doubt be pigeon-holed as an evil atheist "attacking" religion. Oh no, you're being repressed.
(Yes, I know not all religious people do bad things.)
Source? Not saying you're wrong, but would like to know exactly what we're talking about here.
Sometimes when they do that it feels hypocritical: they want compassion etc etc but waste money on those things.
It's not always that, but rather
"I have gained this by philosophy, that I do without being commanded what others do from the fear of law"
Don't steal my line!
I don't know where you come from, and how religion is practiced there, but here christians who make other people's life nasty are minority, and it's hard to me believe that it stems out of their faith nor that it can be stopped by questioning it. Also I wasn't talking about academic or theoretical discussion of atheism, but how some atheists act in their lives. It's odd that my christian friends rarely even mention God if they aren't challenged by atheists. Friend of mine wore T-shirt with text "Jesus is ****". Once I saw Free thinkers' magazine, which had poems about being non-religious. I donät see how those stop christian bigotry, but it seems little like obsession to me.
DJ Bonebraker
a.k.a Laura
Well, SwedishGuy's post would tend to prove you're wrong....
So, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot never did any violence or force their views on other people through laws? I suggest you really read up on history before making such blanket comments... Stalin alone killed more people in his atheistic Communist crusade than were killed in all 300 years of the actual Crusades... And I can prove that the Catholic Church was acting in direct opposition to the teachings of Jesus as well, therefore trying to blame religion for all evils in the world is a straw man at best, and delusional at worst.
As I pointed out above, they can be literal for atheists, too, or are you going to deny what Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot and others of their ilk did, just becuase it's inconvenient to your cause?
Well at least you admit to this....
What I'll say is that I don't believe out of fear... What Eran of Archadia said eariler about spiritual experiences is partially true, although in my case, they only reinforced my belief....
What brought me to God was my searching for a solution to the evils of this world, a search that, as a result of a comment I made once to a religious person (at that time I was an anti-religious theist... I could sense that someone or something was acting as a prime mover in the universe, but I saw all organized religions as institutions set up by demagogues for the mere purpose of excusing all manner of evil). Long story short, I took an honest look in the mirror and came face to face with the most evil person I know: Myself.
I saw Jesus and what he did as the way I could go from being a part of the problem to being a part of the solution, but I'll post more on that later... My lunch break's over, and I need to get back to work.
What would I have to do to convince you that I'm more evil that you?
brennan
Argumentative Brit
Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao killed millions because of their Communist agendas. The fact that they were atheists seems purely coincidental.
