Excitement Overwhelming

[EugeneStyles]

I dislike Steam on anything non-Valve. However, there is FAR worse DRM out there, and if a game is going to have it (which Civ5 must, due to 2K more than Firaxis), Steam is a decent method. I sincerely hope there are non-Steam versions available, though.

I don't mean to derail this thread any further, but... For me Steam is like the opposite of DRM. DRM means I have to hold onto original media and often books/keys whatever. I lost my original disk to Civ IV and ended up buying it again on Steam when they had a $15 for Civ IV Complete sale (I wanted to try Colonization anyway... ). I know that DRM is *meant* to protect against piracy, and I guess Steam is a form of DRM. But for me Steam means no trips to retailers (and unfortunately, there haven't been software stores around here since well before Steam, so it's either big box stores or like Game Stop which seems to have gone away from PC games anyway), better prices, and access to my games no matter how many times I have to reinstall or switch machines. So yeah... I don't really understand the vitriol for Steam. I would be reluctant to buy a game any other way these days...

Also... yeah, way more excited for version 1.3 of RifE than I am for any new games coming out...

 

[Valkrionn]

It's mainly the fact that I do not care to have to run steam in order to play a game which I purchased. I also do not like the fact that I'd have to be online in order to install a game which I own.

I'd far rather have a cd-key, personally.

 

[EugeneStyles]

It's mainly the fact that I do not care to have to run steam in order to play a game which I purchased. I also do not like the fact that I'd have to be online in order to install a game which I own.

I'd far rather have a cd-key, personally.

True, if you can manage to keep track of them all. =)

My major issue with DRM is the ones that say you can only install like 3 times. Sorry, but Windows sucks and sometimes needs to be reinstalled from scratch. Or in the days before TB HD's, I had to only keep a few games installed at a time, so when you weren't going to play something for a while, you uninstalled and came back to it later. Or if you upgrade computers... etc...

Also, DRM that is bugged and screws over legitimate customers... When pirates have the only hassle-free copies, it's awfully tempting to pirate games...

But the fact that I can't lend a Steam game to a friend or resell it is kind of annoying. It messes with the doctrine of first sale, and I don't like that, but it offers enough conveniences to be worth it to me.

 

[Valkrionn]

Oh, I agree that there are worse DRM's; Steam is quite tame by comparison. I'm still not a fan.

I just recognize that it could be worse; Could be like Spore, for one thing.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

So going by that logic being forced to eat broken glass is ok since there are worse things that could happen to you...

Steam is evil. It is a bastion of all that is bad about the gaming industry and a natural continuation of what started long ago with the EULA licenses.

 

[Afforess]

So going by that logic being forced to eat broken glass is ok since there are worse things that could happen to you...

Bad Analogy. DRM is inevitable. 2K demands it. We could have Spore's DRM, 3 installs total, internet connection and account creation required. We could have ever worse StarForce or SafeDisc DRM. Steam allows offline gameplay. Steam allows unlimited installs. Steam has an excellent chat and interface.

Steam is evil. It is a bastion of all that is bad about the gaming industry and a natural continuation of what started long ago with the EULA licenses.

2K has every right to require Steam. You have every right to not purchase the game. But you are in the minority.

 

[EugeneStyles]

So going by that logic being forced to eat broken glass is ok since there are worse things that could happen to you...

Steam is evil. It is a bastion of all that is bad about the gaming industry and a natural continuation of what started long ago with the EULA licenses.

Umm.... seriously?

I don't understand how getting games for better prices without having to find a store that sells them, within seconds of deciding I want to buy it, and having them always available to install on any computer I want without having to store physical media or CD keys is a bad thing.

What exactly do you hate about Steam? If it's the fact that you cannot re-sell the software, that's true of most software with all the BS EULAs these days. It has little to do with Steam specifically, and it's not like used software has much of a market anyway... Aside from that, what exactly, do you find so evil about it?

 

[Opera]

I guess that's a principle.

 

[inuyashasama]

Because so many people pirate, myself and most of the internet included, this kind of stuff has become necessary. A few months ago I swore off pirating, but just recently gave into temptation once more. It's just too easy, and too fast.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Bad Analogy. DRM is inevitable. 2K demands it. We could have Spore's DRM, 3 installs total, internet connection and account creation required. We could have ever worse StarForce or SafeDisc DRM. Steam allows offline gameplay. Steam allows unlimited installs. Steam has an excellent chat and interface.

And it still requires me to have software that I can not trust instaled on my PC. Making uncontrollable auto updates even when they are turned off, causing problems of all sorts (since a single server error can ruin your day) and all sort of junk.

As a software programmer I know the kind of things that can go wrong... that makes me shiver.

2K has every right to require Steam. You have every right to not purchase the game. But you are in the minority.

That is exactly the kind of attitude that is the problem.
Companies have every right to walk all over us, so we should accept it.

I don't understand how getting games for better prices without having to find a store that sells them, within seconds of deciding I want to buy it, and having them always available to install on any computer I want without having to store physical media or CD keys is a bad thing.

Exactly because of that.
You can't install them without a good internet connection.
And you don't get a physical backup.

Not everyone can download several DVDs worth of data every time he needs to reinstall his operating system. (happens a lot to me)

Aside from that, what exactly, do you find so evil about it?

That it represents the culmination of the EULA policies.
Essential, EULA is evil but it is unenforceable evil. Especially since the license usually comes on the CD and is not visible before purchasing the product. Hence it was unenforceable in many cases.

While it remained that way there was some chance that the governments would eventualy change the laws to stop said evil and return to us the right to "purchase" software, not just "lease" it. With steam, it has become absolute.

I am just one of those people that wants to OWN their copy of a software not just to rent it. Although I newer re sold anything really. But its a mater of principal.

 

[Afforess]

And it still requires me to have software that I can not trust instaled on my PC.

What makes any software credible? How do you know Civ4 doesn't have a secret Trojan in the Exe?

Making uncontrollable auto updates even when they are turned off

Not true. You can turn updating off, and it works fine. I do it.

causing problems of all sorts (since a single server error can ruin your day) and all sort of junk.

[Citation Needed]

As a software programmer I know the kind of things that can go wrong... that makes me shiver.

Anecdotes, my favorite!

That is exactly the kind of attitude that is the problem.

Because your attitude is perfect? Who has the attitude problem again?

Companies have every right to walk all over us, so we should accept it.

Did I say that? Nope:

2K has every right to require Steam. You have every right to not purchase the game

Thanks for the out-of-context attacks though, I appreciate it.

And you don't get a physical backup.

False. Steam allows physical backups. I have a backup DVD of every steam game I own.

I am just one of those people that wants to OWN their copy of a software not just to rent it.

You've never bought software in your life, all sales are just granting you a licence to use it. Read those EULA's!

Try getting some facts next time.

 

[Moosh]

Honestly, if steam would just allow the transfer of games from one account to another, I wouldn't have an issue with them. Buddy of mine was done with Empire: Total War, and since I had my new PC, I wanted to try it, so I bought it from him and Steam wouldn't let me install it. Got my buddy to check and see if he could give me the key, and nope. That just seems wrong to me, you can allow transferring of games and keys and still prevent piracy. Once the key is on my account he can't play the game on his account, simple as that. Still just one person per key.

-Moosh

 

[Jheral]

Regardless of the good or evil nature of steam and EULAs, this isn't the proper forum for such a discussion; this subforum is about RifE, not copyright policies. I know I'm not in any way an authority here, but please, take that discussion elsewhere. That issue has been done to death over in the Civ5 part of the forums, anyway.

 

[Abremms]

Honestly, if steam would just allow the transfer of games from one account to another, I wouldn't have an issue with them. Buddy of mine was done with Empire: Total War, and since I had my new PC, I wanted to try it, so I bought it from him and Steam wouldn't let me install it. Got my buddy to check and see if he could give me the key, and nope. That just seems wrong to me, you can allow transferring of games and keys and still prevent piracy. Once the key is on my account he can't play the game on his account, simple as that. Still just one person per key.

-Moosh

that's the kind of game reselling that's been banned by nearly every software EULA ever written, but they are just now finding ways to enforce it.

its not necessarily a bad thing, if the industry can settle on a DRM like Steam that's acceptable to both companies and the majority of gamers (some gamers will always be paranoid and irrational over any form of DRM, something that's beyond me, and best left to another post), maybe companies will start making more games for PC again instead of just catering to the "safe" console crowd. for awhile now, companies have seen PC gaming as risky because of piracy.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

I derailed this for long enough.
So, I withdraw from the discussion.

 

[Randomness]

To be entirely honest, I'm most exited about the Fall From Heaven stand alone game that we know nothing about... However, the next RiFE version would defininatly be in my top 5.

 

[Elwist]

Looking forward to every system becoming a wii and filling up with mini games that... Civ 5 looks good.

 

[Meldon]

Honestly, I'm looking forward to the next RifE more than Civ5. Since I can predict with certainty that there WILL be expansion packs to Civ5, I won't buy it until a few come out and they offer the combo package. I did it with Civ3 and 4. By that time, there will be enough mods out for it to keep me occupied for quite a long time.

 

[Oatse]

Really I'm going to buy Civ5 just to spite the whining babies here. (they're all going to buy it too)

Crackheads won't boycott their crack.

 

[EugeneStyles]

Really I'm going to buy Civ5 just to spite the whining babies here. (they're all going to buy it too)

Crackheads won't boycott their crack.

Maybe some people are talking about a boycott, but I don't see that here... There doesn't look to be anything *wrong* with Civ 5 from my view, it's just not very exciting when we've got FfH and its many descendents available on Civ 4. Why play a game with a bunch of historical factions that are all mostly the same when we can play essentially the same game with around 30 well-designed very-different factions set in a rich fantasy world with magic and dragons and stuff?

If RifE or another FfH modmod ends up being ported to Civ 5, then I'll probably buy it. Or if they come out with a couple expansions and have Civ 5 Complete on sale for like $20. But paying $50 for a regression from what I'm playing now? Why?