Existing Buildings Discussion
- Thread starter Vokarya
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Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Pity we don't have mercury then we could have"Mad Hatters".
The icon for the Hat Shop is of the Mad Matter.
Doesn't mean we can't tweak it. Or create a Cannon Turret to replace it. That would tie up everything with a little bow on top. I'll post that in the new buildings thread.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
True. But if you make an improvement for it I think it should still be linked to the Castle. OR possibly have the castle upgrade into like a Star Fort.
I posted it in the New Buildings thread. It would require a Castle-- I have no problems with that.
Il Principe
Prince
An upgrade for the castle would be great.
I haven't finished the idea yet, but here is what I am going to try and create:
- At Gunpowder, Cannon Turret replaces Ballista Turret.
- At Metallurgy, Star Fort replaces Castle.
Star Fort would be good up to Explosives.
I was looking through the Civilopedia and playing a Transhuman-era game and I noticed there are some buildings that don't seem to obsolete when they should. I would like to propose the following:
Apiary
Obsoletes at Vertical Farming.
This matches up with obsoleting all the Farm buildings.
Butchery
Obsoletes at Cloning.
This matches up with obsoleting all the Animal buildings.
Expressway
Obsoletes at Skyroads.
This matches up with obsoleting all of the other buildings related to travel on ground roads.
United Nations
Obsoletes at Galactic Federation.
There is a Federation of Planets mentioned in the Strategy text for Galactic Federation that I think will cover this.
Apiary
Obsoletes at Vertical Farming.
This matches up with obsoleting all the Farm buildings.
Butchery
Obsoletes at Cloning.
This matches up with obsoleting all the Animal buildings.
Expressway
Obsoletes at Skyroads.
This matches up with obsoleting all of the other buildings related to travel on ground roads.
United Nations
Obsoletes at Galactic Federation.
There is a Federation of Planets mentioned in the Strategy text for Galactic Federation that I think will cover this.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Could I do it? I have some good graphics in mind. Or at least collaborate on it?
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
I have been re-thinking the farms (both animal and crops) and wondering if they should en go obsolete. Originally they were made to go obsolete because Afforess said they should. However this is not RoM/AND anymore. With so many buildings going obsolete at once I wonder if they should ever go obsolete.
Then again at what point would farming not be viable anymore?
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
I think the obsoletion of farming may occur in our future if pollution gets out of control, which it likely will before we create a solution. The fields themselves under our current methods of farming can only sustain this sort of high-octane production for so long before the soil burns out. Something to consider for the answer to that question... and maybe to interact with your pollution concept in the other thread.
BTW, it doesn't appear to me that we've fully solved a previous issue with defenses... it still appears to be that all defense bonuses still only apply to troops without high-explosives. Shouldn't we create some additional defense tabs for non-obsoleting defense bonuses and update our buildings to it accordingly?
BTW, it doesn't appear to me that we've fully solved a previous issue with defenses... it still appears to be that all defense bonuses still only apply to troops without high-explosives. Shouldn't we create some additional defense tabs for non-obsoleting defense bonuses and update our buildings to it accordingly?
Well, an apiary (building) is likely to go obsolete when you urbanize everything in the area (let's say vertical farms as an extreme proxy for that) because you no longer have the local environment with the right flaura to support the bees (just an example, but in general, more intensive land-use would obsolete things that require siginficant land, either directly (normal farms) or indirectly (environmental footprint like the apiray case)
I think Vertical Farming actually fits as a shorthand for "we're not farming the land any more". Hydroponics (for plants), Aquaculture (for Fish) and Cloning (for meat) also fit the bill for me.
Il Principe
Prince
True
There should be defensesespecially aigainst HE units. Star forts for example, or some future shielding system.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Do you think map resources should go obsolete? Such as if you grow meat in a lab why do you need cow or pig resources?
Note this would probably create havoc with the Culture Wonders what depend upon resources.
No reason to obsolete the resources I don't think. At some level we're after reality-informed gameplay, not total reality modelling. Obsoleting many of the buildings should suffice without being nearly so disruptive.
If you have graphics, I would like to see them. I have nothing and was about to make buttons. Here is my list of specifics for the Cannon Turret:
- Cost 200 hammers (double speed for Protective leaders)
- Technology: Gunpowder
- Obsolete: Artillery
- Buildings required: Castle OR Star Fort, Cannon Forge
- Resources Required: Iron, Sulphur
- -1 gold
- +1 unhappy with Pacifism
- +5 flammability
- Minimum city size 6
- Replaces Ballista Turret
- 25% damage to adjacent units per turn
Compared to the Ballista Turret, it costs twice as much and deals +5% damage over the Ballista. It also adds +5 flammability.
The Star Fort itself would have the following:
- Cost 200 hammers (double speed for Protective leaders)
- Technology: Metallurgy
- Obsolete: Artillery
- Resources Required: Bricks OR Stone
- +75% defense
- -50% damage from bombardment
- Minimum city size 6
- Replaces Castle
The Star Fort would be a purely military building, without the trade, espionage, or culture benefits of a Castle. The only expanded building for the Star Fort would be the Cannon Turret. You could decide to upgrade to the Star Fort at Metallurgy, and would lose the Castle at Economics.
How is the term "high explosives" defined? I think the Star Fort should be able to work against low-explosive units (Arquebus, Musket, Renaissance-Era Cannon), but then it loses its power against units like Modern Grenadier or Artillery.
One more thing I'm going to throw out to get it on the board: I think Training Dojo and Masters Dojo need a small bonus. From the time Gunpowder units are available to the time the Dojos go formally obsolete (at Homo Superior), the only units that get Martial Arts promotions are Recon units. The Adventurer does benefit, since it is only Strength 13, but the next Recon unit is the Motorcycle, which has Strength 36 (vs. the most powerful Archery unit at 12 and Melee unit at 15). So the Dojos are buildings that only give -1 hammer, and thus a bad idea to build.
I would suggest one of the following (or both):
I would suggest one of the following (or both):
- Extend Martial Arts promotions to Gunpowder units. They could still benefit from the First Strikes from Martial Arts II and III.
- Give Training Dojo +1 culture, and Masters Dojo +1 health and +2 culture, with both of the Dojos' culture doubling in 1000 years.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
@Vokarya
1. Overall those look good. Think the Star Fort should be a bit more expensive though (like 225).
2. I am not exactly sure on the high explosives part. I was always confused on how that worked.
3. Here are the icon/buttons for them.
4. I assume you will be coding then and just using the buttons I posted below?
5. I have some other Dojos I would like to add that will depend upon those buildings. Thus they will not be so useless in the future. I disagree that they should get a bonus to gunpowder units.
On a side note you can always make "Kung Fu Clockwork Golems".
1. Overall those look good. Think the Star Fort should be a bit more expensive though (like 225).
2. I am not exactly sure on the high explosives part. I was always confused on how that worked.
3. Here are the icon/buttons for them.
4. I assume you will be coding then and just using the buttons I posted below?
5. I have some other Dojos I would like to add that will depend upon those buildings. Thus they will not be so useless in the future. I disagree that they should get a bonus to gunpowder units.
On a side note you can always make "Kung Fu Clockwork Golems".
Il Principe
Prince
Maybe the dojos could give something to spies? Not sure which promotion, but looking at all the spy flicks out there I think a spy could definetly benefit from good martial arts training.
Edit: Hyros unemployment/homelss therad send me thinking:
Isn´t it strange that you can build the manor/estate line of housing in a marxist society and noone complains? Maybe those should get some
in this case. And cost less hammers if you run burgois or patrician.
Edit: Hyros unemployment/homelss therad send me thinking:
Isn´t it strange that you can build the manor/estate line of housing in a marxist society and noone complains? Maybe those should get some
in this case. And cost less hammers if you run burgois or patrician.- Status
