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Experiences With "Flavors"?

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Creation & Customization' started by Ozymandias, Nov 10, 2006.

  1. embryodead

    embryodead Caliph

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    Here's a problem - there's no way to start with Cautious with the configuration you quoted (high aggression and shunned/fav govts), which means you've probably changed the aggression too. To re-iterate, the settings you said you had before adding flavors, are enough for the AI to be Annoyed already. I'm trying to persuade you to do an experiment and turn the flavors off now, and see what happens ;)
     
  2. Ozymandias

    Ozymandias I saw the Great Library burn.

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    Ah! Quite so - you know, I've been lobbying for years for a "smilie" slapping itself on the forehead repeatedly ;)

    Best,

    Oz
     
  3. mrtn

    mrtn Shaven not stirred

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    Oz, thanks for that link, helps me a bit, as I'm currently writing dippy. :)

    As to flavors, I'd trust that embryodead is sure about something, when he says he is.
     
  4. kairob

    kairob Biohazard

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  5. Ozymandias

    Ozymandias I saw the Great Library burn.

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    Gracias :)

    - Yet we once again turn to embryodead's words, this time from that page (note where I've added emphasis):

    "Got C3C and started testing. Unfortunately, flavors do not affect relations at all.
    In Napoleonic France, everyone's fav. government is Monarchy, and most hated is Republic, while France is a Republic and hates Monarchy. That's exactly enough to make the starting "annoyed" relation, same as in WH-Mod.
    So I went further and in WH-Mod added 3 flavors: Good, Neutral and Evil, no % relationships (or 30% later, no difference). Then I made Reikland good and Bretonnia - evil. Normally they are polite towards each other since they have the same fav govt. No change. More similiar tests only supported this.
    I as far as I got it, when one flavor has % relationship with another, it doesn't relate to faction's relationship. The percentage is a chance (likeliness) that a faction with one flavor with follow a path of another flavor. Example: There is Evil flavor that has 30% relationship with Neutrals and 0% with Goods. Then, if there is an Evil building, it will be always built by Evils, sometimes (30%) by Neutrals and never by Goods. I'm trying to find use for it, but the problem is that it affects only AI, so the player can be sort of anything he likes."

    As Ever,

    Oz
     
  6. DJ Bonebraker

    DJ Bonebraker a.k.a Laura

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    So I should just make all the evil factions favorite government Corporate Republic (Corporate Facism), and the good guys fav. gov. Democracy, and the neutrals Communismn, then....
     
  7. kairob

    kairob Biohazard

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    looks like it...
     
  8. DJ Bonebraker

    DJ Bonebraker a.k.a Laura

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    Guess I'll do that when I update the mod.... I'm also changing the name of Corporate Republic to Imperialism, since it is more accurate towards what 90% of the bad guys' governments were in FF......
     
  9. Nwoll

    Nwoll Prince

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    In my mod I gave every civ two civ specific wonders. At first the AI wouldn't build its civ-specific wonder; then I gave the wonders the same "flavor" flag that I gave to the civ I wanted to build it, and now the AI builds the wonders every time.
    SO, I know for a fact that on the building/improvements screen, giving an improvement a certain flavor flag does work.
     
  10. kairob

    kairob Biohazard

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    Yeah it does affect buildings, and tech research, just not diplomacy...
     
  11. Keroro

    Keroro Dororo: Ninja Frog

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    Just a quick question - If I assign a tech to flavour 1, and then set the relationship between flavour 1 and flavour 2 to 0%, then the AIs in Flavour 2 should never research the tech, right?
     
  12. Plotinus

    Plotinus Philosopher Super Moderator

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    That's right.
     
  13. kairob

    kairob Biohazard

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    Will it research it eventually if it is era required though?
     
  14. Virote_Considon

    Virote_Considon The Great Dictator

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    I have a question, now:

    If a civ can choose between a tech with no flavour, and a tech with a flavour, which one will it go for?
     
  15. embryodead

    embryodead Caliph

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    someone, I think Oz in another thread, posted this link: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=45559
    This is the AI decision-making process explained. How much exact effect flavors have on those is unclear, but generally a 100% flavor over unflavored tech wins, no matter what. But again it doesn't work exactly as expected since:

    No, not at all, the AI will still research it just fine. It only means that the AI with Flavor 1 will research it over other techs while AI with Flavor 2 will research it like any other.
     
  16. Plotinus

    Plotinus Philosopher Super Moderator

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    No, if the relationship between Flavour 1 and Flavour 2 is 0%, then a Flavour 2 civ will always try to avoid researching a Flavour 1 tech.

    Note that tech/building flavours are distinct from civ flavours. So say you have Flavour 1 and Flavour 2 in your mod. You can set tech Flavour 1 to have a 100% relationship with civ Flavour 1 (the default), which would mean that civs with that flavour will always try to research/build things with that flavour. But you could set it to 0% too, which would mean a Flavour 1 civ would always try to avoid researching a Flavour 1 tech.

    But it's simple really. Whatever the relationship is between any given flavour on the civ side and any given flavour on the tech side, that is the likelihood that a civ with the one flavour will want to research/build things with the flavour on the other side. 50% is the default and means that there is no effect.
     
  17. Virote_Considon

    Virote_Considon The Great Dictator

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    If a civ has 2 flavours, (at their default values), and a tech is the same as one of their values, will this mean that they have a 75% flavour towards it, or 100%?

    Likewise, if they have a tech with 2 of their flavours, will that be a 100% flavour or something different?
     
  18. Plotinus

    Plotinus Philosopher Super Moderator

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    No - if a flavour relationship is set to 50% then it effectively makes no difference. So if a civ has Flavour 1 and Flavour 2, and a tech has Flavour 1 and Flavour 2, and these are all at 50%, then it shouldn't make any difference to anything.

    I don't know what happens if both of these are set to (say) 75%. I suspect it would be the same as if only one flavour were being used, set to 75%. But I don't know what happens if one is set to 75% and the other to 25%. Would they cancel each other out?
     
  19. embryodead

    embryodead Caliph

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    EDIT: removed my answer cause I found an error in my test setup, I'll follow up as soon as I figure it out ;)
     
  20. embryodead

    embryodead Caliph

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    Ok so an issue with not disabling tech trading skewed my results... Indeed 0% means the civ will avoid it and research it last, and 50% means no effect, so hats off to Plotinus :)

    I tried to find out how exactly the numbers work, and it seems they are modifying the values from here, with 50% having no effect, 0% reducing it to 0%, and 25%/75% adding/substracting 50% respectively etc. This is based on the fact that I found no randomness in AI tech decisions, but adding new units to a tech flavored with 25%/75% changed its mind. E.g. say Bronze Working at 50% was always researched; at 25% it wasn't researched; but with two more defensive units added to it, it was always researched even with 25%. So yeah, combined flavors of 75% and 25% should cancel each other out.
     
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