Experiment 626's Solo TDG

[AutomatedTeller]

no - for a UN victory, you have to be careful about people's reactions. For a spaceship, all you need to make sure you control the UN, so you can squash the vote

If you still have a save from the turn that he demanded republic, I suggest reloading it and seeing what happens if you don't give into the demand. Not to replay the game from that point or anything - just see what happens.

the other thing about ROP is that the AI will attack you when they have an ROP with you - but they won't do the full ROP-rape, where you move units next to all their cities and take them the first turn. They are especially fond of moving their units next to an undefended city, declaring war, and taking it, which is a real danger if you play the way most people do, which is to not garrison core cities. I remember the first time I got hit like that - made me made, so i destroyed the egyptians...

 

[vorlon_mi]

no - for a UN victory, you have to be careful about people's reactions. For a spaceship, all you need to make sure you control the UN, so you can squash the vote

Yes, that's right. 626, did you ever play Civ2? Over at Apolyton,
there are folks who did a huge study about early spaceship launches
in Civ2. Led by Solo, they showed that the Civ2 AI could be pacified
by giving them lots of gifts. So much so, that the "early landing" gurus
got away with building almost no military at all
and they weren't attacked.

The Civ3 AI have no such illusions. I've sometimes been able to delay
their attacks, by selling them a luxury or horses. If they declare on me,
then they're cutting off their own supply of that resource. But when
they want to declare, they will do so, whether or not you've been nice to them.

 

[Experiment 626]

Originally posted by AutomatedTeller:

no - for a UN victory, you have to be careful about people's reactions. For a spaceship, all you need to make sure you control the UN, so you can squash the vote

Check!

If you still have a save from the turn that he demanded republic, I suggest reloading it and seeing what happens if you don't give into the demand. Not to replay the game from that point or anything - just see what happens.

Sadly, I do not have the savegame.

the other thing about ROP is that the AI will attack you when they have an ROP with you - but they won't do the full ROP-rape, where you move units next to all their cities and take them the first turn. They are especially fond of moving their units next to an undefended city, declaring war, and taking it, which is a real danger if you play the way most people do, which is to not garrison core cities.

I always try to have at least 1 unit garrisonned in cities.


Originally posted by vorlon_mi:

626, did you ever play Civ2?

Yes, I did. If there's one thing about Civ3 that I miss about Civ2 is the Spaceship victory movie. I loved that! I wasn't all that great at it, of course, but I had a blast playing it.

I've sometimes been able to delay
their attacks, by selling them a luxury or horses. If they declare on me,
then they're cutting off their own supply of that resource. But when
they want to declare, they will do so, whether or not you've been nice to them.

Thanks for the info, v_m, and welcome to the thread!


Once again, it will probably be Tuesday before I get to play the next Set of Turns. If this game just happens to go to the time limit then that means that there are 38 more Sets of Turns to go.

As always, all of your thoughts, suggestions, and advice is greatly appreciated.

Edit: I will check in here tomorrow before playing.

 

[Eltrai]

I am looking forward to the turns. I do like the suggestion to hit the Mayans and grab a couple of quick cities. Then sue for peace and see what you can get out of it.

But let us not forget that we must rid the world of the horrible Korea!

 

[Experiment 626]

*****

To Recap:

If you see BOS = SPEARMAN -> SWORDSMAN, that means that Boston has produced a SPEARMAN, and will produce a SWORDSMAN next.

If you see Dopey = Road (2T), that means that Dopey has begun building a road, and that it will take 2 turns to complete.

If you see WSH = pop 8, that means that WSH has grown to pop 8.

To keep everybody up to date on City’s abbreviations, here they are going into Turn 161:

WSH=Washington, D.C., NYC=New York City, BOS=Boston, PHI=Philadelphia, ATC=Atlantic City, CAM=Cambridge, CHA=Charlotte, JAM=Jamestown, BAL=Baltimore, SAL=Salem, CON=Concord, RCH=Richmond, ATL=Atlanta, TRE=Trenton, PRO=Providence, MIA=Miami, LYN=Lynchburg, EDM=Edmonton, CAL=Calgary, TOR=Toronto, MEM=Memphis, VAN=Vancouver, MAC=Macon, HAR=Hartford, ALB=Albany, BUF=Buffalo, and NWO=New Orleans.

As always, when a new city is added, I give you the abbreviation.

If a Worker or Military Unit only moves in a turn, I won’t mention it, unless it’s important.

I will only inform you if an AI Civ has completed a GREAT or SMALL WONDER, not who’s building one.

*****


IBT

We have learned Engineering! Invention is next.

Mecca (Arabia) has built The Great Library.

WSH = MEDIEVAL INFANTRY -> Sun Tzu (Pre-build for Leo’s Workshop)

BUF = pop 2.
MAC = pop 4.
PRO = pop 6.

EDM, HAR, and WSH are about to grow.



Turn 161 (460 A.D.)

Military Actions​

MEDIEVAL INFANTRY = ‘PERSEUS II’

Worker Actions​

Bambi + Thumper = Irrigation (2T).
Lilo + Stitch = Road (1T).
Huey, Dewey, and Louie = Road in Forest (2T).
Lady + The Tramp = Road (1T).


We will learn Invention in 10 turns.



IBT

Najran (Arabia) has built The Great Wall.

EDM = pop 4.
HAR = pop 3.
WSH = pop 12.



Turn 162 (470 A.D.)

Worker Actions​

Scar = Road in Mountain (18T).
Cinderella = Road in Forest (4T).
Lilo + Stitch = Irrigation (2T).
Doc + Sleepy = Road in Mountain (2T).
Bashful + Happy = Irrigation (2T).
Mickey + Minnie = Road (1T).
Ariel + Sebastian = Road (1T).


We will learn Invention in 9 turns.



IBT

Goofy + Pluto are killed by a barbarian!

BAL, NYC, and VAN are about to grow.



Turn 163 (480 A.D.)

Worker Actions​

Donald + Daisy = Road (1T).
Snow White + Dopey = Road (1T).
Chip = Road (2T).


We will learn Invention in 8 turns.



IBT

NYC = Settler -> Library.

BAL = pop 6.
VAN = pop 5.

ALB, and ATL are about to grow.




Turn 164 (490 A.D.)

Worker Actions​

Cruella helps 2 Korean Workers = Road in Mountain (6T).
Dale joins Chip, and helps him = Road (1T).
Ariel + Sebastian = Road (1T).
Lady = Road in Jungle (6T).
Doc + Sleepy = Mine (4T).


We will learn Invention in 7 turns.



IBT

CAL = Barracks -> Library.

ALB = pop 3.
ATL = pop 6.

CHA, MIA, NYC, and TOR are about to grow.



Turn 165 (500 A.D.)

Worker Actions​

Snow White + Dopey = Road in Forest (2T).
3 Korean Workers = Clear Jungle (16T).
Mickey + Minnie = Road (1T).
Launchpad + Darkwing = Mine in Mountain (6T).


We will learn Invention in 6 turns.



IBT

Korea and Maya have signed a Peace Treaty.

After the senseless killings of Goofy and Pluto, I now protect my Workers who are toiling in the field. To that end, I have a stack of 4 Workers, 1 Settler and 1 PIKEMAN! The villainous Barbarian attacks the stack (he’s got guts, I’ll give him that. No brains, but plenty of guts). My PIKEMAN dispatches him effortlessly, and without injury! VENGEANCE IS MINE! The PIKEMAN spends the next few turns cleaning the guts off of his Pike!

EDM = PIKEMAN -> Settler.

CHA = pop 4.
MIA = pop 5.
NYC = pop 7.
TOR = pop 7.

EDM is about to grow.



Turn 166 (510 A.D.)

Worker Actions​

Chip + Dale = Road in Mountain (4T).
Grumpy + Sneezy = Irrigation (2T).
Lilo + Stitch = Road in Forest (2T).
Donald + Daisy = Road (1T).


We will learn Invention in 5 turns.



IBT


TOR = MEDIEVAL INFANTRY -> Marketplace.
VAN = PIKEMAN -> Wealth.

EDM = pop 5.

BUF and PRO are about to grow.



Turn 167 (520 A.D.)

Worker Actions​

Huey, Dewey, + Louie = Road in Mountain (2T).
Mickey + Minnie = Road (1T).
Bambi + Thumper = Irrigation (2T).

Settler Actions​

A Settler founds CHICAGO (CHI) -> Warrior.


We will learn Invention in 4 turns.


IBT

BOS = Library -> Barracks.
ATC = Marketplace -> Aqueduct.

BUF = pop 3.
PRO = pop 7.

NWO is about to grow.



Turn 168 (530 A.D.)

Worker Actions​

Snow White + Dopey = Road (1T).
Bashful + Happy = Road (1T).
Mickey + Minnie = Irrigation (2T).
Donald + Daisy = Road (1T).

Settler Actions​

A Settler founds DETROIT (DET) -> PIKEMAN.


We will learn Invention in 3 turns.



IBT

NWO = pop 2.

MEM is about to grow.

I raise the SCI slider to 50% to learn Invention in 1 turn. It’ll cost me 39 Gold, but I think that it’s worth it!



Turn 169 (540 A.D.)

Worker Actions​

Grumpy + Sneezy = Road in Jungle (3T).
Snow White = Dopey = Irrigation (2T).
Huey, Dewey, + Louie = Mine in Hills (3T).
Doc + Sleepy = Road in Forest (2T).
Bashful + Happy = Irrigation (2T).
Donald + Daisy = Irrigation (2T).

Settler Actions​

A Settler founds AUSTIN (AUS) -> PIKEMAN.



IBT

We have learned Invention! Monotheism is next.

I adjust the SCI slider down to 40%.

I change WSH’s production from Sun Tzu’s Art of War to Leonardo’s Workshop.

PHI = Aqueduct -> MEDIEVAL INFANTRY.

MEM = pop 2.

CHA is about to grow.



Turn 170 (550 A.D.)

Worker Actions​

Chip + Dale = Mine in Mountain (6T).
Ariel + Sebastian = Clear Jungle (8T).
Lady + The Tramp = Irrigation (2T).
Lilo + Stitch = Road (1T).
Bambi + Thumper = Road (1T).
Mickey + Minnie = Irrigation (2T).


There is a stack of 2 Korean Settlers and 2 Korean SPEARMEN skirting my border. I use my Military to block and delay them as long as possible. To this end, I spend 56 Gold to rush a Settler. I know right where they’re trying to get to, but it’s roaded and I’m going to get there first.


We will learn Monotheism in 4 turns.


End of Set of Turns 550 A.D., 80 Gold (+5 per turn).


Here is our Territory:

As you might notice from the pic, my territory is too big now for 1 pic. I chose this portion to show you the new cities. Never fear, though, I haven’t lost any of the northern cities. They’re still there.


Here is the savegame:

View attachment Exp626 of the Americans, 550 AD.SAV

As always, your comments, suggestions, and advice are greatly appreciated.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

freaking barbarians... they are the bane of my existance...

why monotheism, as opposed to gunpowder? Course, 4 turn research on monotheism ain't bad at all...

 

[Experiment 626]

Originally posted by AutomatedTeller

why monotheism, as opposed to gunpowder?

Once again, that's my short-sightedness at work. I will switch to Gunpowder before the next turn.

Speaking of the next turn, I will probably play the next set on Tuesday.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

well, I'm not saying that monotheism is bad or anything. I'm just curious why you picked monotheism. I think you have a bunch of turns in on it, so you might as well stay with it. You might get trade value out of it, in fact. The AI will pretty much always go direct for gunpowder.

 

[Experiment 626]

Originally posted by AutomatedTeller:

well, I'm not saying that monotheism is bad or anything. I'm just curious why you picked monotheism.

The idea was to get Mono (not that mono, mind you ), and then Chivalry to get to the Knights.

You might get trade value out of it, in fact. The AI will pretty much always go direct for gunpowder.

Alas, the AI has absolutely nothing for me to trade for, not even Gold.


As always, I'll check in here tomorrow before playing the turns.

I wonder where Marsden is? This will be the first time in a long time that he hasn't chimed in on a Set of Turns. Oh, well . . .

 

[Marsden]

Chime!

AutomatedTeller an I seem to be thinking along the same lines. Nobody wants you to stay away from Monotheism. It seems to be preferred by many, though, to follow the bottom line of the middle ages tech tree and go straight to military tradition, and hopefully have cavalry, not bothering to ever have knights. This is a play style choice of many. Both chivalry and MT are optional, but cavalry are very useful. The main stumbling block to this strategy is lack of saltpeter, which you will be aware of well in advance with the discovery of gunpowder.

I suggest attacking Korea while they are fighting the Maya, or attacking the Maya while still fighting Korea. This can be done with an alliance or not, but if you ask for an alliance, please get some money or something out of it, ally to the highest bidder. Both have cities you can attack without going through the other's territory. Go get'em!

 

[Experiment 626]

Originally posted by Marsden:

Chime!

(Lurch voice): You rang? (End Lurch voice)

I've been reading your Combat and Growth thread, and I assumed that you were busy trying to destroy the world (oops . . . I mean, all other Civs on your planet).

Both chivalry and MT are optional, but cavalry are very useful. The main stumbling block to this strategy is lack of saltpeter, which you will be aware of well in advance with the discovery of gunpowder.

It's O.K. What I don't have, I take by force!

I suggest attacking Korea while they are fighting the Maya, or attacking the Maya while still fighting Korea.

Alas, the Maya-Korea war has been over since In-Between Turns 165 and 166. Another opportunity lost, it seems. If I had Gold, I could have upgraded everybody by now, and been off and running.

This can be done with an alliance or not, but if you ask for an alliance, please get some money or something out of it, ally to the highest bidder.

Neither Korea or Maya have anything (tech or Gold) to offer me.

Both have cities you can attack without going through the other's territory.

That's true enough.

Go get'em!

I just don't know if my Attack Force is ready or not. I've probably upgraded only about 1/3 of my Units.

I'm about to go play the next Set of Turns, but a few things have been nagging me about this game.

1. Should I have built the Forbidden Palace by now?

2. With all of the mistakes that I've made in this game, should I abandon this game, and start another? The reason that I bring this up is that I should have complete control of my continent by now, but I waited far too long. Now I'm going to be bogged down in a War of Attrition that will take a millenia or so (at least) to resolve. By that time, Arabia and France will probably be advanced enough to reach me, and the cycle of violence will continue, and I won't be able to win this game, because of #3.

3. I should have left all victory conditions enabled (except for Wonder Victory). The set-up for this game (not the house rules as posted in Post #1 in this thread, but the set-up) severely hampered me.

What do you think? Is this game unwinnable by SpaceShip or Diplomatic Victory? Will I run out of time before I can achieve victory?

Anyway, those are the thoughts that have been plaguing me for the past couple of Sets of Turns.

I'm off to play the next Set of Turns now.

 

[CommandoBob]

I'm about to go play the next Set of Turns, but a few things have been nagging me about this game.

1. Should I have built the Forbidden Palace by now?

Yes, but now you have an entire continent to exploit with the FP.

2. With all of the mistakes that I've made in this game, should I abandon this game, and start another?

Stop whining! Every game is fraught with mistakes and missed oppurtunities (and missplled workds, too!). You have done very well so far, played a very deliberate game and have almost conquered this land. And, except for helps and pointers, you have done it on your own.

Finish it out and take pride in your scars.

3. I should have left all victory conditions enabled (except for Wonder Victory). The set-up for this game (not the house rules as posted in Post #1 in this thread, but the set-up) severely hampered me.

What do you think? Is this game unwinnable by SpaceShip or Diplomatic Victory? Will I run out of time before I can achieve victory?

Anyway, those are the thoughts that have been plaguing me for the past couple of Sets of Turns.

I'm off to play the next Set of Turns now.

This game is very winnable. Pick a VC and go for it.

 

[Marsden]

Hey, here's a Harumph! for CommandoBob!

Really, I agree 100%. I don't know what kind of notions you had when you wrote that, but you are not losing at all. You have the largest nation, population, and army. If you decide to go spaceship, then all you need to do is (1) pacify your continent and (2)research all out. More on these a little later.

If your going the UN way, then I suggest eliminating Korea and Maya, and trying to keep on Arabia's and France's goodside (sickeningly so) and research all out to get to fission (have a palace prebuild ready) and build the UN. Then, assuming Maya and Korea are gone, either Arabia or France will run against you, and the one not running should vote for you. A quick way to make sure is go through an election to see who's running against you, then make an alliance with the other AI against them. The allies' attitudes will increase toward you and you should win. The one big problem here is that France and Arabia both might be eligible and the AI never votes against itself.

1. pacify your continent doesn't necessarily kill everyone, but it means hurting or keeping everyone down so that they can never threaten you. Right now Korea is stuck with inferor units because of no iron. Iron is not so important in the late middle age and later, but is crucial now. If you hurt them now, you can exploit this deficency. Yes, it's nice to upgrade, but your obselete units are still better than his because of the lack of iron. Once he gets Invention and Gunpowder, iron is not that important, be aware.

2 Research doesn't only mean using the slider. You need to build up a nice pop in corrupt cities at the periphery of your empire, irrigate some good key food producing squares and use everyone else as scientists. You could potentially have a size 6 town with 4 scientists or a size 12 city with 7 or 8 scientists. (After railroad bonuses) All of those science points are not subject to corruption. Don't worry if you only have one or two sheilds for production, you're never going to see more that one per turn anyway. Don't even worry about building anything more than an aquaduct, and maybe 1 culture building. That's it, don't waste your money or your time, you just want those scientist to study for you, they don't need fancy buildings in their town.

Also, becareful about switching research projects. It's not like Civ 2, if you can discover Steam in 12 turns and Medicine in 10, pick Medicine for 4 turns and have 6 left, if you switch to steam it will still be 12 turns and not 8, and you lose the 4 turns when you go back to Medicine. Just be really careful about switching, it's usually better to stick with a poor choice then make a worse one switching in the middle.

And, the forbidden palace is good to have, you should pick a spot near the capital and get started asap, but(!) don't neglect other important things like troops. Don't build it in one of your cities with a barracks, or your settler factory, but one of the others that is close by. It does help overall with corruption, but it isn't the game breaker it was in Vanilla/PTW.

 

[Experiment 626]

In an effort to retain what’s left of my sanity, the Journal Entries from now on will be brief.

To this end, I will no longer post Worker actions (unless they hook up a luxury or something), or pop growth notifications, or City productions.

This Journal is getting a bit cumbersome to type up. I’m not that fast of a typist hence the need for a change.

To keep everybody up to date on City’s abbreviations, here they are going into Turn 171:

WSH=Washington, D.C., NYC=New York City, BOS=Boston, PHI=Philadelphia, ATC=Atlantic City, CAM=Cambridge, CHA=Charlotte, JAM=Jamestown, BAL=Baltimore, SAL=Salem, CON=Concord, RCH=Richmond, ATL=Atlanta, TRE=Trenton, PRO=Providence, MIA=Miami, LYN=Lynchburg, EDM=Edmonton, CAL=Calgary, TOR=Toronto, MEM=Memphis, VAN=Vancouver, MAC=Macon, HAR=Hartford, ALB=Albany, BUF=Buffalo, NWO=New Orleans, CHI=Chicago, DET=Detroit, and AUS=Austin.

As always, when a new city is added, I give you the abbreviation.


IBT

After hitting the Space Bar to begin the Set of Turns, this is what I see:

This royally blows because if you notice, Maya has now cut off 3 of my cities from the rest. This is bad, really bad. I no longer have a clear road to send Settlers down to colonize the southern part of the continent.


After cursing at the comp screen for a minute or two, I continue . . .

I switch Research from Monotheism to Gunpowder. I figure that the sooner that I can see the Saltpeter, the more time that I have to prepare.

Turn 171 (560 A.D.)

The set of 2 Koreans Workers are renamed as ‘Jafar’ and ‘Iago’, respectively.

Gunpowder in 7 turns.



Turn 172 (570 A.D.)

Gunpowder in 6 turns.


Turn 173 (580 A.D.)

Military Actions​

FAFHARD attacks a barbarian encampment. FAFHARD sustains a wound, but is victorious, and disperses the encampment, giving us a bonus of 25 Gold. Well done, FAFHARD.

Settler Actions​

A Settler founds HOUSTON (HOU) -> Marketplace.


Gunpowder in 5 turns.


Turn 174 (590 A.D.)

Gunpowder in 4 turns.


Turn 175 (600 A.D.)

Gunpowder in 3 turns.


IBT:

I sign a Right of Passage Agreement with France, so my Scout is free to wander wherever he chooses.


Turn 176 (610 A.D.)

Gunpowder in 2 turns.


IBT

I adjust the SCI slider to 30% to maximize Gold, and complete the Research in 1 turn.


Turn 177 (620 A.D.)

Gunpowder next turn!


IBT

We have learned Gunpowder! Monotheism is next.

Anxiously, I look at WSH’s City Screen, and, guess what?

THERE IS NO SALTPETER ANYWHERE IN MY TERRITORY!

There is a deposit of Saltpeter near my territory, but if I settle there, the new city will flip like BUF did.


Turn 178 (630 A.D.)

Monotheism in 5 turns.


Turn 179 (640 A.D.)

Monotheism in 4 turns.


Turn 180 (650 A.D.)

Settler Actions​

A Settler founds PITTSBURGH (PIT) -> PIKEMAN.


Monotheism in 3 turns.


End of Set of Turns

208 Gold, +25 per turn.


Here are two pics of my territory:

The Saltpeter deposit is circled in White. ARGH!


Here is a close-up of those ingrates in BUF. The red dot is where I’m thinking of parking a Galley, and use it as a bridge to get my Settlers to the south. Will this work?

Here is the savegame:

View attachment Exp626 of the Americans, 650 AD.SAV


*****

Originally posted by CommandoBob:

Yes, but now you have an entire continent to exploit with the FP.

I don't mean to argue, but I don't have the entire continent under my control.

Stop whining! Every game is fraught with mistakes and missed oppurtunities (and missplled workds, too!). You have done very well so far, played a very deliberate game and have almost conquered this land. And, except for helps and pointers, you have done it on your own.

Finish it out and take pride in your scars.

I need to apologize for my previous post. This past weekend was hell on earth at work, and I'm very tired.

This game is very winnable. Pick a VC and go for it.

I will!


Originally posted by Marsden:

Hey, here's a Harumph! for CommandoBob!

And a laurel and hearty handshake!

Really, I agree 100%. I don't know what kind of notions you had when you wrote that, but you are not losing at all. You have the largest nation, population, and army. If you decide to go spaceship, then all you need to do is (1) pacify your continent and (2)research all out. More on these a little later.

According to CivAssistII, Korea's army is about the same size as mine.

1. pacify your continent doesn't necessarily kill everyone, but it means hurting or keeping everyone down so that they can never threaten you. Right now Korea is stuck with inferor units because of no iron. Iron is not so important in the late middle age and later, but is crucial now. If you hurt them now, you can exploit this deficency.

Actually, Korea has Iron. They built a city at the very southern tip of the continent, and connected the Iron next to it. I don't know if they have Harbors or not, but they do have Iron.

And, the forbidden palace is good to have, you should pick a spot near the capital and get started asap, but(!) don't neglect other important things like troops. Don't build it in one of your cities with a barracks, or your settler factory, but one of the others that is close by. It does help overall with corruption, but it isn't the game breaker it was in Vanilla/PTW.

Why should I have the FP in a city near the Capital? Shouldn't I build it a ways away, so the 'radii' don't overlap?


As always, your comments, suggestions and advice are greatly appreciated.

 

[Marsden]

Why should I have the FP in a city near the Capital? Shouldn't I build it a ways away, so the 'radii' don't overlap?

That's how it was before Conquests. Now, it just helps overall corruption some. It doesn't have an area of effect to set up a "second core" like it used to. Now it's better to just get it up sooner than later.

Don't give up!. You can use your army better than the AI, and you can beat them! I think you might to either wait for cavalry or just go and attack now, either way make a plan. I think it would be worth it to take that source of iron away from Korea, it can't be well guarded. Then you want to grab a saltpeter. If there's one in Korea, that would be a good target.

 

[CommandoBob]

I need to apologize for my previous post. This past weekend was hell on earth at work, and I'm very tired.

No need to apologize. I understand your feelings. I started a solo game on the forums much like this one. One player, documenting everything, trying to learn how to play at a higher level. Come to find out, documenting does not make a person a better player. I thought that by writing out (rambling about) my strategy, it would make me a better player, since I would force myself to think about what I was doing and not just play the turns. Did not happen.

What has happened is that I can see my mistakes much more clearly than if I had played the game straight through. Stopping every ten turns to sit back and study and evaluate the last ten turns is far more important than documenting worker moves. And yet, without writing down the worker moves, the stop-and-think-about-it never happens.

I am actually surprised you kept your logs so detailed for so long. You spent a lot of time on them and it shows. And doing the logs by hand and then to put in the editing: Wow!

 

[CommandoBob]

Just got C3C so I can open the game and examine it.

208 gold +25 gpt
Monotheism, 3 turns, 4.3.3

City builds:

1. Washington (12), grows in 2, Leonardo's Workshop in 10
2. New York City (9), grows in 2, courthouse in 1
3. Toronto (7), grows in 12, market in 4
4. Boston (8) grows in 39, courthouse in 9
5. Philadelphia (5) grows in 3, courthouse in 13
6. Calgary (4) grows in 13, library in 14
7. Atlantic City (6) zero growth, aqueduct in 8
8. Cambridge (5) zero growth, wealth
9. Charlotte (5) grows in 1, library in 12
10. Jamestown (4) zero growth, wealth
11. Baltimore (6) zero growth, wealth
12. Salem (6) zero growth, courthouse in 15
13. Concord (3) zero growth, wealth
14. Richmond (5) zero growth, wealth
15. Atlanta (7) zero growth, wealth
16. Trenton (4) zero growth, wealth
17. Vancouver (5) grows in 2, library in 73
18. Edmonton (5) grows in 8, aqueduct in 20
19. Providence (7) grows in 8, wealth
20. Miami (6) zero growth, wealth
21. Lynchburg (5) zero growth, wealth
22. Memphis (2) grows in 10, market in 12
23. Macon (4) grows in 1, wealth
24. Hartford (5) grows in 12, library in 2
25. Albany (4) grows in 5, wealth
26. New Orleans (3) grows in 9, wealth
27. Chicago (2) grows in 4, settler in 7
28. Detroit (3) grows in 4, settler in 18
29. Austin (2) grows in 7, rPike in 8
30. Houston (2) grows in 7, market in 93
31. Pittsburgh (1) grows in 7, rPike in 30

Military:

• Workers 28
• Scout 1
• Spearman 16
• Swords 5
• Horses 3
• Pikes 12, 2 in production
• Catapults 7
• Maces 10

Build Orders:

• Leonardo's Workshop [1] (Washington)
• Courthouse [4] (New York City, Boston, Philadelphia and Salem)
• Market [3] (Toronto, Memphis and Houston)
• Library [4] (Calgary, Charlotte, Vancouver and Hartford)
• Aqueduct [2] (Atlantic City and Edmonton)
• Wealth [13] (Cambridge, Jamestown, Baltimore, Concord, Richmond, Atlanta, Trenton, Providence, Miami, Lynchburg, Macon, Albany and New Orleans)
• Settler [2] (Chicago and Detroit)
• rPike [2] (Austin and Pittsburgh)

Understanding all of this
Out of habit I created this analysis. It is something I tend to do when there are fewer than 50 cities. After that, I omit the City List.

So what can we learn?

Well, 31 cities is pretty good for this early in the game. Only one is maxed out in size and that is the capital. A few over size 6. Just the city list by itself does not help us a lot.

Looking at the Military list, we have plenty of home grown workers 28 for 31 cities. Nothing too wrong with that; it is fairly close to the 1:1 ratio workers to cities that others love.
Sixteen spears and five swords? Both defend with 2, but swords attack with 3, not 1. Twelve pikes also. Same attack as spears but better defense. Once Leonardo’s workshop comes in, upgrade the spears to pikes and then send them to the front lines.
Ten maces, not too bad, more would be better. Seven catapults are probably not enough, since they are so inaccurate.

Build Orders is always interesting. One wonder, some courts and markets and aqueducts, all look good. Thirteen of thirty-one cities making wealth is not a good sign. Even those outlying cities can be making catapults, since catapults cannot be veteran, the lack of barracks is not a problem. Or have them make workers and settlers.
At this stage of the game, only veteran units should be produced, so I would switch the two rPikes to something else. Don’t know what, but not regular military units

 

[AutomatedTeller]

I think you should pop a city next to that saltpeter. You can use that list of 16 spears to sit in it and keep it from flipping - a large enough garrison will stop any flip.

Alternatively, you have 7 cats and 18 other offensive units... sounds like a stack of doom to me They can capture cities (and by doing so, raise your ability to support troops, giving you more gold) and some of the swords will die, solving your need to upgrade them!! All solved!

I kind of liked your monotheism to knights idea. I guess my post wasn't about whether to switch to gunpowder or not - it was more to figure out your thinking. Either path is perfectly fine - knights first, then go for cavalry... or perhaps knights then the upper path, or whatever.

And switching is fine - the idea is to have a plan. It doesn't really matter if it's the "right" plan - it's hard to say what the "right" plan is at any given time.

And yes - this is a very winnable game. Just like some games that look winnable can turn quickly into losses if you aren't careful. i just played a 20K game for the HOF gauntlet where I was about 10 turns from the win, no chance of a loss (Russia, the biggest AI loved me and life was great), when I said "hmm... maybe I'll plant a spy with Cathy just to see how big her army is..."

she catches the spy and declares war. i lose saltpeter *and* rubber, and nearly lose the game when a marine takes my capitol!

I encourage you to keep playing as long as you find the game interesting. And if you find it boring, but are near an era change, just keep playing for awhile... the AI's tend to go ape in the early industrial age, with mutual protection pacts and world wars.


btw - what is your scout doing? are you using it for something, or is it just sitting there, taking up 2GPT in support costs?

 

[Marsden]

Here is a close-up of those ingrates in BUF. The red dot is where I’m thinking of parking a Galley, and use it as a bridge to get my Settlers to the south. Will this work?

Yes, it will work. Also you can walk through the eastern square of Buffalo's culture border. It'll do the same thing.

 

[Experiment 626]

*****

LOCATION: The War Room secretly located somewhere in Washington, D.C..

THOSE PRESENT: President E626 and his War Generals Marsden, CommandoBob, and AutomatedTeller. A squad of Pikemen guard the room.

President E626 begins the meeting. “Gentlemen! We are about to go to WAR!”

The Pikemen mutter, “It’s about time!”

A sharp look from the Generals silence the Pikemen.

The President says, “OPERATION: CERBERUS was a decent success. We didn’t accomplish everything that we set out to do, but we did manage to capture some cities. That’s in the past. Now it’s time for OPERATION: SALTPETER!”

The President points at a map on the wall, and says, “Here we have the latest Intelligence map.”

The President continues. “I have taken the liberty of drawing up some battle plans, and would like your input on whether or not you think if it will work or not.”

“I have not yet determined how we will divide our forces, but I do know that there will be 4 Battalions. Namely, 1st Battalion, 2nd Battalion, 3rd Battalion, and the Defense Battalion. The Defense Battalion will be deployed along the American-Mayan border in preparation for a counter-attack.”

“The 1st Battalion will attack the Mayan city of Calakmul, and try very hard to capture it!”

“At the same time, the 2nd Battalion will attack the hated city of Cuello, and burn it to the ground! It’s their fault that Buffalo joined the Mayan Empire! Them and their lousy Culture! Culture, Shmulture, I say! A Settler and a Pikeman will accompany the 2nd Battalion, and settle a good and righteous American city on the light blue dot. We will call this new city: Indianapolis! The Pikeman will garrison there. The reason for settling on the light blue dot is that not only is there a deposit of Saltpeter nearby, but also a deposit of GOLD!”

“By capturing Calakmul (which we will rename Tijuana) and razing Cuello, we will achieve our objective of relieving the region-wide ‘Cultural Influence’ that is pressuring our cities to the south.”

“After the resistance in Calakmul . . . excuse me, I mean, Tijuana . . . is ended, we will send the 3rd Battalion in and reclaim BUFFALO!”

“If all goes well, we have another target. Look in the lower left hand corner of the map. In the mountains right there is a deposit of Gems! We take out whatever city that happens to be, and we take the gems by force!”

“Are there any questions?”

A Pikeman nervously raised his hand.

The President asked tersely, “What's your question, soldier?!!”

The Pikeman hesitantly asked, “With all due respect, Mr. President, I was just wondering how you managed to acquire such a map? From that vantage point, it must have been drawn by a bird or something.”

The President looked at the map, did a double-take, turned back to the Pikeman, and yelled, “SHADDUP! Never you mind where I got the map! You just follow orders! Understand?!!”

The Pikeman meekly said, “Yes, sir, Mr. President.”

The President looked to his War Generals, and asked, “What do YOU think, gentlemen?”

*****

Well? What do you think?


On to your posts:


Originally posted by Marsden:

I think you might to either wait for cavalry or just go and attack now, either way make a plan.

See above for my plan.

I think it would be worth it to take that source of iron away from Korea, it can't be well guarded.

I opened the save, and looked at the map carefully. Korea hasn't even built the road to connect the Iron to the city which is right next to it. Silly AI!

Then you want to grab a saltpeter. If there's one in Korea, that would be a good target.

During my inspection of the map, I noticed that Korea has no Saltpeter in its' territory.


Originally posted by CommandoBob:

am actually surprised you kept your logs so detailed for so long. You spent a lot of time on them and it shows. And doing the logs by hand and then to put in the editing: Wow!

I actually wrote everything out during this past Set of Turns, but when I started to type it up, I realized that nobody probably cares if Bambi and Thumper built a road or not. Hence the brevity. Instead of it taking me about 2 1/2 hours to type up the Journal Entry, it only took me about 45 minutes.

Maces

Am I right in assuming that Maces mean Medieval Infantry?

Understanding all of this

WOW! Thanks for taking the time to type up this analysis. I really appreciate it!

Thirteen of thirty-one cities making wealth is not a good sign. Even those outlying cities can be making catapults, since catapults cannot be veteran, the lack of barracks is not a problem. Or have them make workers and settlers.

But it would take forever for some of these cities to produce even one Catapult, Worker, or Settler wouldn't it?

At this stage of the game, only veteran units should be produced, so I would switch the two rPikes to something else. Don’t know what, but not regular military units

Workers, perhaps?


Originally posted by AutomatedTeller

I think you should pop a city next to that saltpeter. You can use that list of 16 spears to sit in it and keep it from flipping - a large enough garrison will stop any flip.

Those 16 Spears are defending my cities at the moment. I believe that Marsden said that an AI cannot resist taking an undefended city.

Alternatively, you have 7 cats and 18 other offensive units... sounds like a stack of doom to me They can capture cities (and by doing so, raise your ability to support troops, giving you more gold)

See BATTLE PLANS above.

and some of the swords will die, solving your need to upgrade them!! All solved!

You really are a heartless so-and-so, aren't you?

the AI's tend to go ape in the early industrial age, with mutual protection pacts and world wars.

Now THERE'S something to look forward to. I've been told to never EVER sign an MPP with anybody.

btw - what is your scout doing? are you using it for something, or is it just sitting there, taking up 2GPT in support costs?

Thanks to my ROP with both Arabia and France, my Scout is taking a tour of the other continent. He's managed to pop a couple of goody huts over there as well. One gave me regional maps, and the other gave me 25 Gold. Trust me, he's earning his pay.


Originally posted by Marsden:

Yes, it will work. Also you can walk through the eastern square of Buffalo's culture border. It'll do the same thing.

I don't have an ROP with Maya, so I can't use his roads, right? I'd stop in that square every time I moved someone through. Maya would probably get all P.O.ed about it. I've already got Korea at my throat, telling me to get out of their territory. I had a couple of Med Inf standing outside Seoul's Cultural boundary, when it expanded. Wang Kon popped up mad as hell as if I cooked his dog and ate him or something. That doesn't stop him from trespassing into my territory with Settlers and Spearmen. I tell him to leave, he does. The next turn, he walks right back into my territory again.

Your advice, as always, is greatly appreciated.