Extra Traits for C2C

AIAndy said:
Traits in the Sevopedia are done in a weird way. It expects a concept page that is named depending on the trait and if it is missing for any traits, it runs into Python errors.
I want to change that at some point so it uses the normal pedia key tag from traits instead of this weird concept way but for now you need to make sure that the concept pages are there.
Click to expand...

Where is this 'concept page'? Like in what folder thx.
 
@SO,
From other threads posting from ls612, about sudden Civic Maint costs changes:
Example:
Code: 
<Type>TRAIT_PHILOSOPHICAL</Type>
			<Description>TXT_KEY_TRAIT_PHILOSOPHICAL</Description>
			<ShortDescription>TXT_KEY_TRAIT_PHILOSOPHICAL_SHORT</ShortDescription>
			<iHealth>0</iHealth>
			<iHappiness>0</iHappiness>
			<iMaxAnarchy>-1</iMaxAnarchy>
[color=red]			<iUpkeepModifier>50</iUpkeepModifier>[/color]

This was 40 now it's 50. Some have risen to as high as 70. A few (very few) are now as low as -40.

Now if you have 3 traits that range from 40 to 65 you can have a 120% to a possible 195% increase in Civic Maint costs. May be possible to have even higher. Depends upon the 3 Traits a particular Leader has.

Since the author was made to reduce Crime from the Leader Traits this is the New direction taken. And the source of finding (with a new SVN update), of having a +gold/turn become a -gold/turn such as what ls612 asked about in the other thread.

Didn't we go thru this on Civic and Inflation costs just 2 versions ago? Koshling made adjustments and fixed some bugs, balanced it out, but now it's being adjusted again without real discussion.

JosEPh
 
JosEPh_II said:
@SO,
From other threads posting from ls612, about sudden Civic Maint costs changes:
Example:
Code: 
<Type>TRAIT_PHILOSOPHICAL</Type>
			<Description>TXT_KEY_TRAIT_PHILOSOPHICAL</Description>
			<ShortDescription>TXT_KEY_TRAIT_PHILOSOPHICAL_SHORT</ShortDescription>
			<iHealth>0</iHealth>
			<iHappiness>0</iHappiness>
			<iMaxAnarchy>-1</iMaxAnarchy>
[color=red]			<iUpkeepModifier>50</iUpkeepModifier>[/color]

This was 40 now it's 50. Some have risen to as high as 70. A few (very few) are now as low as -40.

Now if you have 3 traits that range from 40 to 65 you can have a 120% to a possible 195% increase in Civic Maint costs. May be possible to have even higher. Depends upon the 3 Traits a particular Leader has.

Since the author was made to reduce Crime from the Leader Traits this is the New direction taken. And the source of finding (with a new SVN update), of having a +gold/turn become a -gold/turn such as what ls612 asked about in the other thread.

Didn't we go thru this on Civic and Inflation costs just 2 versions ago? Koshling made adjustments and fixed some bugs, balanced it out, but now it's being adjusted again without real discussion.

JosEPh[/QUOTE]

But isnt that backwards:

iUpkeepModifier: 	How much civic maintenance costs are [U]reduced[/U] (in percent).
Click to expand...
 
Only if the Modifier has a - sign.

Example: Organized <iUpkeepModifier>-40</iUpkeepModifier>

Organized and Barbaric have the only -X modifier, all the rest have X modifier.

Examples:
Charlemagne has the traits: Imperialistic (+80), Protective (+80), Isolationist (+10) = 170% increase
Hammurabi - Organized (-40)(best one to have), Aggressive (+25)(another good one), Isolationist (+10) = -5% (best one I've found yet)

I've only made it thru 29 leaders and the Avg Increase (excluding Hammurabi) to Civic Maint thru the iUpkeepModifier is ~ 122% Increase across the board. With Charlemagne at the highest of 170% and Julius Caesar at the lowest at 15% (Hammurabi noted already). Only 5 of the 29 leaders checked, so far, have % below 100% increase.

JosEPh

Edit: Who is this supposed to be?
Code: 
<LeaderHeadInfo>
			<Type>LEADER_CHINESE_LEADER</Type>
			<Description>TXT_KEY_LEADER_CHINESE_LEADER</Description>
			<Civilopedia>TXT_KEY_LEADER_CHINESE_LEADER_PEDIA</Civilopedia>
			<ArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_LEADER_CHINESE_LEADER</ArtDefineTag>
 
JosEPh_II said:
Only if the Modifier has a - sign.

Example: Organized <iUpkeepModifier>-40</iUpkeepModifier>

Organized and Barbaric have the only -X modifier, all the rest have X modifier.

Examples:
Charlemagne has the traits: Imperialistic (+80), Protective (+80), Isolationist (+10) = 170% increase
Hammurabi - Organized (-40)(best one to have), Aggressive (+25)(another good one), Isolationist (+10) = -5% (best one I've found yet)

I've only made it thru 29 leaders and the Avg Increase (excluding Hammurabi) to Civic Maint thru the iUpkeepModifier is ~ 122% Increase across the board. With Charlemagne at the highest of 170% and Julius Caesar at the lowest at 15% (Hammurabi noted already). Only 5 of the 29 leaders checked, so far, have % below 100% increase.

JosEPh
Click to expand...

Then the Modiki is wrong, it doesn't say (reduced) if you have a - (minus) there it just says reduced:crazyeye::confused:
 
I guess we need to ask Koshling or AIAndy then?

All I can tell you is if you've updated the SVN past where the last Leader Trait commit was done your Civic Maintenance Cost virtually doubled and then some. I'm currently staying at (reverted back to) 4202 until some of the latest SVN mess gets corrected.

JosEPh
 
I'm pretty sure a negative value decreases, a positive value increases maintenance.
Vanilla organized trait (which decreased maintenance):
Spoiler :
<TraitInfo>
<Type>TRAIT_ORGANIZED</Type>
<Description>TXT_KEY_TRAIT_ORGANIZED</Description>
<ShortDescription>TXT_KEY_TRAIT_ORGANIZED_SHORT</ShortDescription>
<iHealth>0</iHealth>
<iMaxAnarchy>-1</iMaxAnarchy>
<iUpkeepModifier>-50</iUpkeepModifier>
<iGreatPeopleRateModifier>0</iGreatPeopleRateModifier>
<iMaxGlobalBuildingProductionModifier>0</iMaxGlobalBuildingProductionModifier>
<iMaxTeamBuildingProductionModifier>0</iMaxTeamBuildingProductionModifier>
<iMaxPlayerBuildingProductionModifier>0</iMaxPlayerBuildingProductionModifier>
<ExtraYieldThresholds/>
<TradeYieldModifiers/>
<CommerceChanges/>
<CommerceModifiers/>
<FreePromotions/>
<FreePromotionUnitCombats/>
</TraitInfo>
 
Desolator said:
I'm pretty sure a negative value decreases, a positive value increases maintenance.
Vanilla organized trait (which decreased maintenance):
Spoiler :
<TraitInfo>
<Type>TRAIT_ORGANIZED</Type>
<Description>TXT_KEY_TRAIT_ORGANIZED</Description>
<ShortDescription>TXT_KEY_TRAIT_ORGANIZED_SHORT</ShortDescription>
<iHealth>0</iHealth>
<iMaxAnarchy>-1</iMaxAnarchy>
<iUpkeepModifier>-50</iUpkeepModifier>
<iGreatPeopleRateModifier>0</iGreatPeopleRateModifier>
<iMaxGlobalBuildingProductionModifier>0</iMaxGlobalBuildingProductionModifier>
<iMaxTeamBuildingProductionModifier>0</iMaxTeamBuildingProductionModifier>
<iMaxPlayerBuildingProductionModifier>0</iMaxPlayerBuildingProductionModifier>
<ExtraYieldThresholds/>
<TradeYieldModifiers/>
<CommerceChanges/>
<CommerceModifiers/>
<FreePromotions/>
<FreePromotionUnitCombats/>
</TraitInfo>
Click to expand...

Yes, that's my understanding also.
 
Well Organized (-40), Politician (30), with any of these 3 give the lowest change: Anti-Clerical, Megalomaniac, and Excessive (all 0 Modifier) is the least expensive. Although Hammurabi at -5% is the best leader I've found so far (still going thru the list), Julius Caesar is 2nd at 15%.

JosEPh
 
JosEPh_II said:
Well Organized (-40), Politician (30), with any of these 3 give the lowest change: Anti-Clerical, Megalomaniac, and Excessive (all 0 Modifier) is the least expensive. Although Hammurabi at -5% is the best leader I've found so far (still going thru the list), Julius Caesar is 2nd at 15%.

JosEPh
Click to expand...

All of the Upkeep modifiers on Traits should be cut in half IMO, right now Upkeep alone is 2/3rds of my expenses!
 
Yes positive value increases and negative value decreases.

Before anyone rants about them being too high:

- The reason I chose this method is mainly because it scales with your difficulty level. The other reason was that having civic maintenance costs is realistic.
- Before the maintenance levels set had very little to no effect on your tax rate/gameplay.
- Look in game to see how your income is going. What % of tax are you running?
- I was asked to give the original traits a negative aspect and this is it, until thunderbrd does the trait stuff which will allow more options.
 
ls612 said:
All of the Upkeep modifiers on Traits should be cut in half IMO, right now Upkeep alone is 2/3rds of my expenses!
Click to expand...

They were half, now they are double. What % of tax are your running?
Why don't you try and overcome this with strategy and take this as an opportunity to challenge yourself!
 
Sgtslick said:
They were half, now they are double. What % of tax are your running?
Why don't you try and overcome this with strategy and take this as an opportunity to challenge yourself!
Click to expand...

80% tax and I can make a small profit. But that's not really the point, the point is that the upkeep should be smaller and other costs (units, inflation) should be larger to compensate. I'm also looking at something to help for :gold: on faster gamespeeds.
 
I think you should just give it a fair go. If you really hate it after like a week ill change it for you. By the time other costs are larger to compensate as you say, hopefully thunderbrd will be finished with the new trait possibilities and civic maintenance therefore won't be as high.
 
I would just like for the Crime tacked onto Humanitarian to be explained? Does it reduce crime? Or raise crime? And at what conditions. The formula shown in the Civilopedia just doesn't make sense to me.

And the Pop levels for adding or reducing Crime were sort of discussed.
But, Revolutionary starts adding +1 Crime when the city hits 6 pop, if I understand it right.
Barbaric does the same at 9 pop.
Cruel at 15 pop.
But the big one is Nomad +15 Crime/turn at pop 20. (overlooked maybe?)

JosEPh
 
JosEPh_II said:
I would just like for the Crime tacked onto Humanitarian to be explained? Does it reduce crime? Or raise crime? And at what conditions. The formula shown in the Civilopedia just doesn't make sense to me.

And the Pop levels for adding or reducing Crime were sort of discussed.
But, Revolutionary starts adding +1 Crime when the city hits 6 pop, if I understand it right.
Barbaric does the same at 9 pop.
Cruel at 15 pop.
But the big one is Nomad +15 Crime/turn at pop 20. (overlooked maybe?)

JosEPh
Click to expand...

Humanitarian reduces crime.
Im not sure of the conditions generally off the top of my head.
Nomad is one of the strongest traits with really good free promo's, crime got reduced from +20 crime @ 15 pop I think it was. Now its +15 crime@ pop 20. Its intentional so it hasn't been overlook. If you think its still too high in your game let me know.
 
Sgtslick said:
Humanitarian reduces crime.
Im not sure of the conditions generally off the top of my head.
Nomad is one of the strongest traits with really good free promo's, crime got reduced from +20 crime @ 15 pop I think it was. Now its +15 crime@ pop 20. Its intentional so it hasn't been overlook. If you think its still too high in your game let me know.
Click to expand...

I think these sound ok in isolation now. However, speaking as someone who has BOTH nomad and aggressive (Ghengis Khan) I'm not sure it will be controllable. I guess we'll
see...
 
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