Extra Traits for C2C

[JosEPh_II]

Looked into the CIV4HandicaInfos.xml at Noble in particular. As Sgt says <iCivicPercent>80 for player. BUT, for AI it is <AICivicPercent>100 ! On Noble they get the full Load. In fact it's Monarch that is closest to a Level Playing field between Player and AI, Not Noble as has been presumed and reported for sometime. Prince is 90 for player and 95 for AI. Monarch is 95 player and 90 AI. Also Emperor and Immortal are also 100 for player. On Deity it's <iCivicPercent>100 for Player and <AICivicPercent>75 for AI.

But player <iInflationPercent>90 on Deity. Why isn't player at 100 on inflation? On Noble it's 60 for player but 50 for AI. So AI does get a break on Inflation.

JosEPh

 

[Sgtslick]

Yes, I agree. However, I don't think the issue is related to the handicap, it's because Slick plays on a very slow gamespeed. And as you very well know, there is a disparity between gold flows on Eternity and gold flows on Normal. THat is what I want to address this version.

err no I play on marathon or sometimes epic. I usually very slightly increase tech speed too or decrease depending which one.
You can change the values yourself if you like Is612 but wait till you've implemented the change first. I still think halving them is too much, I'd much prefer a like 33% reduction. Also don't change organized to -20%, make it at least -30% or else the trait will be underpowered imo. Lastly humanitarian should become 0 or -5% not 10% keep in mind. And don't go doing something like making all the values uniform or something or else i'd be pissed, they are different values for balance.

Looked into the CIV4HandicaInfos.xml at Noble in particular. As Sgt says <iCivicPercent>80 for player. BUT, for AI it is <AICivicPercent>100 ! On Noble they get the full Load.

Hmm well spotted - plz change.

 

[ls612]

Looked into the CIV4HandicaInfos.xml at Noble in particular. As Sgt says <iCivicPercent>80 for player. BUT, for AI it is <AICivicPercent>100 ! On Noble they get the full Load. In fact it's Monarch that is closest to a Level Playing field between Player and AI, Not Noble as has been presumed and reported for sometime. Prince is 90 for player and 95 for AI. Monarch is 95 player and 90 AI. Also Emperor and Immortal are also 100 for player. On Deity it's <iCivicPercent>100 for Player and <AICivicPercent>75 for AI.

But player <iInflationPercent>90 on Deity. Why isn't player at 100 on inflation? On Noble it's 60 for player but 50 for AI. So AI does get a break on Inflation.

JosEPh

Lol! If those work the way you think I'll change them.

Edit: Changes are now on the SVN.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Do you know if they work differently?

JosEPh

 

[ls612]

Do you know if they work differently?

JosEPh

No, you had it right. I've changed that now on the SVN, along with some major Gamespeed changes

 

[JosEPh_II]

Time now for another Update from the SVN for my current game.

By the time we update the C2CMP SVN it could be some major shocks.

JosEPh

 

[CIVPlayer8]

Philosophical: +1 with Fur...

 

[JosEPh_II]

Philosophical: +1 with Fur...

Someone just had to involve Green Peace didn't they.

Seriously though, whoever added that to Philo was just looking for a way to add Unhappiness and took any means available. Even a ridiculous one like that.

JosEPh

 

[Sgtslick]

^ grumpy old man

 

[strategyonly]

^ grumpy old man

hahahahaa HUH, what, i am one also

 

[DRJ]

Seriously though, whoever added that to Philo was just looking for a way to add Unhappiness and took any means available. Even a ridiculous one like that.

No. Ridiculous is to deny the philosophical implications upon a philosophical interested person that sees animals being hunted from their natural habitats or live under horrible conditions and then be murdered for rich peoples "fun" and then to brag about criticizing that.

Its a shame and industries as well as consuments around it make me really angry.

Spoiler :

So maybe you just don't represent the "philosophical" trait but rather the "ignorant" one

By the way, one of the philosophical implications lies within history and what man does to man. In the country I come from, there is a city, Münster, in which during the reformation a religious group "Die Wiedertäufer" (Anabaptists) gained power for some time. When the catholic church won back the city, the Anabaptist leaders corpses were publicly displayed, hanging in iron cages at the cathedral - they can still be watched there today.

Spoiler :

What do I want to tell you? People and animal as living beings caged in is cruel and where is the line drawn to it? A philosophical question. When does human "fur" matter? A question of power, and people in power show themselves with the "fur" to represent power. Even more decadent it would be to display a robe of human skin or something, just look at some native tribes, scalping, shrunken heads, you name it. Fur and what it is associated with can make people angry, for sure! Them being philosophical people? Most likely. Joseph? not so much.

Moderator Action: Please do not direct your passion at other members of the site. If a post upsets you, please report it and let the mods handle it. Taking matters into your own hands never turns out well for you.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[strategyonly]

Even more decadent it would be to display a robe of human skin or something, just look at some native tribes, scalping, shrunken heads, you name it.

Actually even in this day and era, the Jivaro Tribe still does "shrunken heads" they live in the OWN democracy of S.America. And it has been reported that journalist going in, most of the time NEVER come back out.

 

[JosEPh_II]

@DRJ,

I believe I responded to CIVPlayer8's post. Not to you.

Please take your rancor and overactive imagination and direct it somewhere else. I didn't attack you, so please do not attack me. Not even jokingly. You have no idea on what I believe in or where I stand on issues like these. Stop the denigrating remarks because I will not tolerate it at all. Put a smilie behind your words and I'll know your joking. But I don't deserve your ire nor will I take it.

Understood?

JosEPh

 

[leif erikson]

Moderator Action: Please get back on topic and keep it civil.

 

[strategyonly]

Come on guys, this is the "third" time now, moderators have warned us, geez.

 

[ls612]

@SgtSlick:

Now that I've added the changes to by Gamespeed, I think that you should change the traits back to not having nearly as much of an effect on civic upkeep. I'd say start by listing all of the traits and their civic upkeep effect, and we can decide what stays/gets reduced and what goes. Because aside from any considerations about too much gold, having a spread from -15% upkeep to +165% upkeep is not balanced.

 

[ls612]

I've gone over all of the C2C traits, and I've looked at what they do now and what I think they should do. Here is what I came up with.

Traits (Current)​

Positive

Aggressive:
- +25% Civic Upkeep
- +15% GG Emergence
- Free Combat I for Melee, Gunpowder, Hi-Tech, and Assault Mech Units
- Production bonuses for Military buildings
- +10 crime in City if Crime > 200

Agricultural:
- +65% Civic Upkeep
- +1 food for all plots with more than 5
- Production bonuses for Agricultural buildings

Charismatic:
- +1 happiness per City
- +70% Civic Upkeep
- -25% XP needed for upgrades
- Double Production speed of Recruitment center
- +1 happiness from a bunch of buildings

Creative:
- +2 culture per City
- +55% Civic Upkeep
- Production Bonuses for Cultural Buildings
- +1 happiness from a bunch of buildings

Deciever:
- +3 espionage per City
- +70% Civic Upkeep
- Free Improvise I and Deception I for Spies
- Production Bunuses for Spy buildings

Expansive:
- +4 health per City
- Production bonuses for Workers
- +65% Civic Upkeep

Financial:
- +1 commerce on all tiles with 4 or more
- +1 commerce from trade
- +65% Civic Upkeep
- Production bonuses for Financial buildings

Humanitarian:
- +1 health per City
- +1 happiness per City
- +40% Civic Upkeep
- Free Medic I for Recon units
- Production bonuses for some buildings
- Some weird Crime modifier

Imperialistic:
- +100% GG emergence
- +80% Civic Upkeep
- Production bonuses for Settlers and the Think Tank

Industrious:
- +35% Wonder production
- +70% Civic Upkeep
- Production bonuses on Production buildings

Nomad:
- +35% Civic Upkeep
- +1 food from Camps
- +1 happiness from Camels
- Free Flanking I and Guerilla I for Animals, Recon, Mounted, and Wheeled units
- Free Speed for Recon units
- Production bonuses on some buildings
- More Crime

Organized:
- -40% Civic Upkeep
- +10% XP needed for promotions
- Production bonuses on Administration buildings

Philosophical:
- +50% Civic Upkeep
- +100% GPP
- +1 unhappiness from Fur
- Production bonuses for some buildings

Protective:
- Free Drill I and City Garrison I for Archers, Gun, and Hi-Tech units
- +80% Civic Upkeep
- Production bonuses for Defensive buildings

Scientific:
- +70% Civic Upkeep
- +1 science per City
- +12% Science
- Production bonuses for Science Buildings

Seafaring:
- +80% Civic Upkeep
- Free Combat I for Ships
- Free Amphibious for many Land units
- Production bonuses for Workboats
- Production bonuses for Seafaring and Naval buildings

Spiritual:
- Max 2 turns of Anarchy
- +55% Civic Upkeep
- Stability bonus from State Religion
- Production bonuses for Religious buildings

Progressive:
- +50% Civic Upkeep
- -10% XP needed for Promotions
- Free Combat I for Gun, Hi-Tech, and Assault Mech units
- Can upgrade units outside of borders.

Politician:
- Max 3 turns of Anarchy
- +1 happiness per City
- +10% GPPs.
- +30% Civic Upkeep
- Free Loyal for Spies
- Stability bonus from State Religion

Negative

Anti-Clerical:
- -15% GPP
- Stability penalties for State Religions

Cruel:
- -1 happiness per City
- -10% culture
- +10% espionage
- +10% Wonder production
- Crime increases

Idealistic:
- -1 health per City
- -1 happiness per City
- +15% Civic Upkeep
- -20% GPPs
- -20% GG emergence
- +5% culture
- +1 commerce on all tiles with 5 or more

Revolutionary:
- -1 happiness per City
- Max 4 turns of Anarchy
- -1 gold per City
- -12% gold
- +10% espionage
- Stability penalties
- Crime increases

Megalomaniac:
- -1 per City
- +4% gold
- +3% science
- -20% culture

Barbaric:
- Free Combat I for Melee units
- -15% culture
- Crime increases

Isolationist:
- +10% Civic Upkeep
- -20% commerce from Trade
- -45% food from Trade
- +6% science
- -20% culture

Fanatical:
- +10% Civic Upkeep
- -15% science
- +1 from Incense
- Free Flanking I and Guerilla I for Animals, Recon, Mounted, and Wheeled units
- Free Speed for Recon units

Populist:
- -1 health per City
- +60% food from Trade
- -20% commerce from Trade
- +25% Civic Upkeep
- +1 food for all plots with more than 8

Excessive:
- -2 health per City
- -20% GPPs.
- +10% XP needed for Promotions
- Free City Raider I for Melee
- Free Improvise for Spies

Foreign:
- -1 happiness per City
- +1 commerce from Trade
- -20% GPP
- -10% culture
- -5% science
- +10% espionage
- +1 espionage per City
- Free Loyal for Spies

Temperamental:
- -5% GPPs
- -5% culture
- -5% GG emergence
- +5% XP needed for Promotions

Hunter-Gatherer:
- +20% Civic Upkeep
- +1 food for all plots with more than 8
- -20% culture
- -80% food from Trade

Traits (New)​

Positive

Aggressive:
- +15% GG Emergence
- Free Combat I and Combat II for Melee, Gunpowder, Hi-Tech, and Assault Mech Units
- Production bonuses for Military buildings

Agricultural:
- +1 food for all plots
- Production bonuses for Agricultural buildings

Charismatic:
- +3 happiness per City
- Double Production speed of Recruitment center
- +1 happiness from a bunch of buildings

Creative:
- +20%
- +2 culture per City
- Production Bonuses for Cultural Buildings
- +1 happiness from a bunch of buildings

Deciever:
- +3 espionage per City
- +20% espionage
- Free Improvise I and Deception I for Spies
- Production Bunuses for Spy buildings

Expansive:
- +4 health per City
- Production bonuses for Workers

Financial:
- +1 commerce on all tiles with 4 or more
- +1 commerce from trade
- Production bonuses for Financial buildings

Humanitarian:
- +1 health per City
- +1 happiness per City
- Free Medic I for Recon units
- Production bonuses for some buildings

Imperialistic:
- +100% GG emergence
- +2 happiness per City
- Production bonuses for Settlers and the Think Tank

Industrious:
- +15% Wonder production
- +1 hammers on all tiles with 3 or more
- Production bonuses on Production buildings

Nomad:
- +1 food from Camps
- +1 happiness from Camels, Horses, and Llamas
- Free Flanking I and Guerilla I for Animals, Recon, Mounted, and Wheeled units
- Free Speed for Recon units
- Production bonuses on some buildings

Organized:
- -30% Civic Upkeep
- -10% XP needed for promotions
- Production bonuses on Administration buildings

Philosophical:
- +100% GPP
- Production bonuses for some buildings

Protective:
- Free Drill I and City Garrison I for Archers, Gun, and Hi-Tech units
- Production bonuses for Defensive buildings

Scientific:
- +20:science per City
- +12% Science
- Production bonuses for Science Buildings

Seafaring:
- Free Combat I and Navigation I for Ships
- Free Amphibious for many Land units
- Production bonuses for Workboats
- Production bonuses for Seafaring and Naval buildings

Spiritual:
- Max 2 turns of Anarchy
- Stability bonus from State Religion
- Production bonuses for Religious buildings

Progressive:
- +50% Civic Upkeep
- -10% XP needed for Promotions
- Free Combat I for Gun, Hi-Tech, and Assault Mech units
- Can upgrade units outside of borders.

Politician:
- +1 per City
- +10% GPPs.
- +30% Civic Upkeep
- Free Loyal for Spies
- Stability bonus from State Religion


Negative

Anti-Clerical:
- -15% GPP
- Stability penalties for State Religions

Cruel:
- -2 per City
- -10%
- Crime increases

Idealistic:
- -1 per City
- -1 per City
- +15% Civic Upkeep
- -10% GPPs
- -10% GG emergence

Revolutionary:
- -1 per City
- Stability penalties
- Crime increases

Megalomaniac:
- -1 per City
- +40% Civic Upkeep
- -20%

Barbaric:
- -15%
- - 50% GPPs
- Crime increases

Isolationist:
- +10% Civic Upkeep
- -30% from Trade
- -60% from Trade

Fanatical:
- -15%
- -30% GPPs

Populist:
- -1 per City
- -20% from Trade
- +25% Civic Upkeep
- Stability penalties

Excessive:
- -2 per City
- -20% GPPs.
- -10%

Foreign:
- -1 per City
- +1 from Trade
- -10% GPP
- -10%
- -10%

Temperamental:
- -5% GPPs
- -5% culture
- -5% GG emergence
- +5% XP needed for Promotions
- Stability penalties

Hunter-Gatherer:
- +20% Civic Upkeep
- -3 health per City
- -20% culture
- -80% food from Trade

What does everyone else think?

 

[Koshling]

Hard to say as an independent list. Do you happen to have a spreadsheet with them all in, and the leader heads, so we can see the net effect if the combos each leader (currently) has?

 

[JosEPh_II]

Basically ls612 stripped out the Civic Maint Modifiers on almost all the "positive" traits. He also removed the Crime giving or reducing modifiers too. Example, Organized went from a - 40% CM to a -30% CM. Only "positive" trait with a CM left.

He kept the crime Increasing modifiers on the "negative" traits as well as the CM modifiers.

Sgt is Not gonna be a happy camper over this either.

JosEPh

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I've gone over all of the C2C traits, and I've looked at what they do now and what I think they should do. Here is what I came up with.

Traits (Current)​

Negative

Excessive:
- -2 health per City
- -20% GPPs.
- +10% XP needed for Promotions
- Free City Raider I for Melee
- Free Improvise for Spies

Traits (New)​

Negative

Excessive:
- -2 per City
- -20% GPPs.
- -10%
What does everyone else think?

Well that explains why it takes longer to get promotions and there I was blaming TB's combat mods. I don't like the promos in the old nor the - in the new.