Extra Traits for C2C

[Thunderbrd]

@Sgt Slick:
A quick glance indicates we're going to have some problems with a few of the current proposals. As you know, I've been working on the No Negative Traits and Pure Traits game options. They work wonderfully on my system now. However, there are two rules we can't violate in the generation of traits that would cause a problem for the Pure Traits option. One of them, in particular, is probably going to irritate you a bit but its not my fault!

AIAndy programmed the Property Manipulators and he did so in a manner which is pretty far beyond my own abilities to fully grasp. He rerouted the loading sequence for that data coming into the game and I have some fears that I could end up creating problems for other sources of property manipulators, or for other kinds of properties (not just crime and pollution etc...) if I pulled the same tricks there that I'm pulling in the rest of the tag loading that allows me to make the Pure Traits functional.

Pure Traits takes out any detrimental values on Positive Traits and any benefiting values on Negative Traits. It only does so for the specific game using this option. And, to be clear, the two kinds of tags I could not effectively address with this was Property Manipulators and free Promotions. The promotions because I wouldn't be able to easily determine the values on the promotions themselves without a huge amount of added processing and the Property Manipulators because of the unique way in which they are programmed.

So that leaves us unable to put a negative property manipulator function on a positive trait (like crime going up in any way on an positive trait) or a positive property manipulator on a negative trait (like pollution decreasing on a negative trait). And it forces us to put free promos on traits with the full understanding that they should be clearly beneficial on Positives and clearly detrimental on Negatives (mixed bag stuff would be fine really as long as its more positive on a positive trait or more negative on a negative trait.)

I'm sorry for those enforced limitations but its going to obviously require some rethinking of some of these trait proposals. Perhaps AIAndy can help us break through the Property Manipulator limitation there but its outside of my ability and he's not going to be around till Feb (and already has a lot on his plate as it is...)


Now, the one thing that stood out to me on first glance, and I'll be looking through the proposals far more thoroughly later (I've a few to suggest to add as well as I can see some cause to...):
+WarWeariness for Charismatic??? I would figure a charismatic leader would reduce war weariness! Charismatic was always about having more general happiness and the improved xp to level gain was based on the troops being so devoted to their leadership.

Obviously, Charismatic has always been my favorite trait so I'm a little biased to look there first.

Anyhow, otherwise, see what you can do to adjust the traits meaningfully based on the limitations we have there and I'll go through with another round of full proposals this weekend.

BTW, my update for this is coming very soon. I just need to merge the code on my project into the updated SVN version and push the changes. ls612 has a project he wanted me to wait on because there's a hint of overlap in some of the files but if he needs help to merge I can do that for him if I've gotten this merged in and updated before he gets a chance.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Spoiler :

AGGRESSIVE

+9 crime when crime is ≥ 200
Free COMBAT 1 for MELEE GUN HITECH ASSAULT MECH
Free AGGRESSIVE promo on MELEE
Military Production Modifier +10%
Attitude Modifier -1

I don't think they should get this promotion. The Aggressive Promotion should be enough.

Spoiler :

PROTECTIVE

Revolution Index Local +1
Crime -3 when population is ≥ 10
Free GARRISON 1 promo Archer Gun Hitech
Free DRILL 1 promo Archer Gun Hitech
Worker Speed Modifier FORT +40%
War Weariness -20%
Distance Maintenance Modifier +20%
Number Cities Maintenance Modifier +30%
City Defense Bonus +15%

I don't think they should get either of those promotions but instead get a new "Protective" promotion.

Spoiler :

SEAFARING

+1
Free AMPHIBIOUS for MELEE, HELICOPTER, HITECH, ASSAULT_MECH, CLONES
Free COMBAT 1 for WOODEN_SHIPS, NUCLEAR_SHIPS, SUBMARINE, DIESEL_SHIPS, STEAM_SHIPS.
IMPROVEMENT LIGHTHOUSE +100% upgrade rate
IMPROVEMENT SEED_FARM -100% upgrade rate
-5% yield

I don't think they should get either of those promotions but instead get a new "Seafaring" promotion.

Spoiler :

HUMANITARIAN

+1
+1
Upkeep Modifier +10%
-10% wonder production
crime the same as it was -3 crime when pop is 10
free MEDIC1 for recon
War Weariness +50%
Happy per Military unit -1
Largest City Happiness +2
Attitude Modifier +1

I don't think they should get that promotion but instead get a new "Humanitarian" promotion.

Spoiler :

PROGRESSIST

Upgrade Anywhere
COMBAT1 GUN HITECH ASSAULT_MECH

*haven't really finished*

I don't think they should get that promotion but instead get a new "Progressist" promotion.

Spoiler :

POLITICIAN

Upkeep Modifier -25%
RevIdxNational +1
free LOYALTY for spies
War Weariness -25%
Civic Anarchy Time Modifier -25%

I don't think they should get that promotion but instead get a new "Politician" promotion.

Spoiler :

BARBARIC

+1 crime per 9 population of a city
-15% culture
free combat 1 for melee
Attitude Modifier -1

I don't think they should get that promotion but instead get a new "Barbaric" promotion.

Spoiler :

ISOLATIONIST

Rev national index -1
Trade yields -45% -20%
+6% science
-20% culture
Free Amphibious for melee guns etc
-1 trade routes
+20% distance maintenance.
(This needs further balancing im pretty sure)

I don't think they should get that promotion but instead get a new "Isolationist" promotion.

Spoiler :

FANATICAL

Upkeep Modifier +10%
-15% science
Free flanking 1, guerrilla 1 animal mounted recon wheeled
free speed for recon
INCENSE +1
SCIENTIST -1 science
Capital -5% science yield
State Religion Unit Production Modifier +20%

I don't think they should get those promotions but instead get a new "Fanatical" promotion.

Spoiler :

EXCESSIVE

-2
Level Experience Modifier +10% needed
-20%
free RAIDER 1 for melee
IMPROVISE 1 spy

I don't think they should get that promotion but instead get a new "Excessive" promotion.

Spoiler :

FOREIGN

(might rename)
-1
-20%
+1 commerce for trade routes
+1 espionage per city
-5% science
-10% culture
+10% espionage
free LOYALTY for spies
+1 trade routes

I don't think they should get that promotion but instead get a new "Foreign" promotion.

Spoiler :

REVOLUTIONARY

Max anarchy 4 turns
Rev Idx Local -1
+2 crime when pop is 6 and up
-1 commerce in cities
+1 espionage in cities
-10% gold
IMPROVISE 1 for spies
(doesn't look balanced to me, ill rework probably)

I don't think they should get that promotion but instead get a new "Revoultionary" promotion.

Spoiler :

BARBARIAN

What the Barbarians get.

I think Barbarians should get their own special "Barbarian" promotion.

Note that since these promotions are given for free and cannot be taken normally we may also want to think about making the Negative traits having ant-promotions that actually make the unit weaker.

EDIT: Put Quotes in Spoilers like SO requested.

 

[Thunderbrd]

@Hydro: I had thought we'd already all come to an agreement that we'd work with you on that 'Unique Trait Promo' proposition. So I'm thinking he kept the promos as they were for now and in preparation for them to be discussed out into new promotions. But I'm not sure.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Hydro: I had thought we'd already all come to an agreement that we'd work with you on that 'Unique Trait Promo' proposition. So I'm thinking he kept the promos as they were for now and in preparation for them to be discussed out into new promotions. But I'm not sure.

Well I was not sure if he was aware since he put the old ones. If he had wanted the new proposed one then why didn't he just list them? Especially the Aggressive Trait which lists a new one and and old trait when there should only be the "Aggressive" promotion.

I never assume anything anymore since things get looked over, forgotten or even ignored.

EDIT: Wasn't it you who made the icon/button for the aggressive promotion? If so could you make some more trait promotion icon/buttons? I thought it was really good.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I stand prepared to generate the trait promo graphics, yes. And yeah, I don't blame you for bringing it all up - I was going to do so myself once I went through and made thoroughly edited proposals on all the traits (again ).

Furthermore, I know its ls612's realm to manipulate promotions but it might be easier for us if he could authorize me and/or SGT Slick to create/tweak the promotions that only come into play via traits. Would that be ok with you ls612? The reason I ask is to avoid stepping on your toes there and to take some of the upcoming workload off your shoulders. Its also because we may need to adjust them a bit in the continuing effort to balance the traits and I don't want to have to ask you to have to keep up with all that.

 

[strategyonly]

Furthermore, I know its ls612's realm to manipulate promotions but it might be easier for us if he could authorize me and/or SGT Slick to create/tweak the promotions that only come into play via traits. Would that be ok with you ls612? The reason I ask is to avoid stepping on your toes there and to take some of the upcoming workload off your shoulders. Its also because we may need to adjust them a bit in the continuing effort to balance the traits and I don't want to have to ask you to have to keep up with all that.

Now thats what i call a very well thought out way to do things, and asking, Thank You very much

 

[ls612]

Just a couple of quick remarks.
1. No war weariness factor should ever be greater + or - than 20%. We debated this back in versions 14 thru 17 and the Large %'s > or = 25 make sustained wars impossible. <-25% gives Unfair advantage. We worked on these for 3 versions to come up with this.
2. Spiritual is hammered again with a double negative science, this needs to go if anarchy is now 250% longer. Plus the Non state unhappiness should Not be greater than the State happiness. Spiritual should not be set or defined by a "State Religion".
3. Too much manipulation of on all traits. Needs all reduced.
I.e. Humanitarian at +1 would be fine but Expansive at +3 is too much. Populist at -1 needs removed. While Cruel should maybe have a -1. Financial does not need to adjust Health either, etc.

JosEPh

1. I agree. WW effects should not be too pronounced, because if they are too high they can cripple you (although in my current game it doesn't really matter because almost all of my cities have 10 or more net ). Increasing it too much would cause issues, decreasing it, I'm not too sure about that.

2. Why on earth are we continuing with the "religion vs science" balance that is IMO blatently anti-religious?

3. In the early game you are right, however later on I find that many cities are either way (10 or more) or way (5 or more), and there are very few cities in between, so I think that the advantage becomes lesser as the game goes on.

I stand prepared to generate the trait promo graphics, yes. And yeah, I don't blame you for bringing it all up - I was going to do so myself once I went through and made thoroughly edited proposals on all the traits (again ).

Furthermore, I know its ls612's realm to manipulate promotions but it might be easier for us if he could authorize me and/or SGT Slick to create/tweak the promotions that only come into play via traits. Would that be ok with you ls612? The reason I ask is to avoid stepping on your toes there and to take some of the upcoming workload off your shoulders. Its also because we may need to adjust them a bit in the continuing effort to balance the traits and I don't want to have to ask you to have to keep up with all that.

I can make new promos for the traits, it just needs to be posted in the Promotions thread

@sgtslick: I still would push for Positive traits being only positive and Negative traits being only negative. That said I really like the new proposals except from that and JosEPh's comments about WW and Spiritual. If we could get rid of some of the negatives on positive traits and vice versa then I could get behind these traits. Hydro also has some good ideas on this matter.

 

[Sgtslick]

@Hydro All those promotion changes sound great. Ill implement all of them if/when they get done. Im all for it.
Regarding aggressive, I thought they were gonna get both promo's.. hmm I can cut combat 1 if u want but it needs like +15% great generals isntead? What u reckon?


Spiritual Don't forget they have lots of building modifiers. They get +1 happy from a bunch of buildings and stuff. Maybe ill reduce max anarchy down to 2 instead of 3? Is that enough?

In terms of balancing, there are only so many options, the science vs religion is just easy, I don't necessarily agree with it. But from a yin/yan perspective it works. Plus it does kinda have historical context with Galileo and all that. It may seem anti-religious but its not meant to be offensive or anything- it just works as a balancing tool.

War Weariness -
Oki doke, so max +25% war weariness you think? Sure no problem.

-- Any thoughts on me cutting out some of the traits? Any objections etc?

@Thunderbrd hmm so what are you saying, sorry bit of a short attention span sometimes.. Your saying I can't use free promotion or property modifiers because the option for neg/pos or pure pos doesn't allow it? Is that right?
If thats the case don't do it. Can't I just simply make two different trait info files, and we have the pure positive one as an optional download with each version or something like that? Thats too big a constraint. If people want the pure positive version they can download it when I finish it. Screw making it an option if it means no property stuff AND no promotion stuff.

Yeah I don't like the war weariness on charismatic either.. This stuff is by no means final, I just put up what I had done so you guys can help get it done quicker, instead of u waiting on me.
So yeah I agree get rid of war weariness, but it still might need another slight negative? Not sure at the moment.

NEG/POS vs Pure POS.

Im happy to do a pure POS version, let me just get this one working first. So in a couple of weeks once this is done/balanced ill do the pure positive version. Hopefully this will satisfy people.

@Strategyonly it'd be really cool if for example, financial cities had a slightly higher likelihood of generating merchants over other specialists, scientific - scientists, deceiver - spies. If this were possible it might help to alleviate some of the problem of too few doctors/spies.

 

[Sgtslick]

Ok so made a few changes -

Philosophical
20% war weariness down from 25%

Spiritual
max 2 anarchy down from 3

industrious
+20% wonder production up from 15%

Creative
war weariness down from +40% to +30% (might reduce more and put in another slight Negative)

Charasmatic
war weariness gone

Protective
Distance maintenance up to 25% from 20%

Humanitarian
war weariness from +50% to +20%

Politician
War weariness gone.

Cruel
changed wonder bonus to 15% to national wonders only, instead of +10% for wonders+national.

Put in barbarian trait:
BARBARIAN

+1
+1
-20% upkeep modifier
free aggressive promo on melee
+50% military production

-- Over the course of the week/weekend ill make lots of changes to these and hopefully we can implement a working version by monday/tuesday, if thunderbrd has the tags implemented by then mind you. Some of the traits are completely unfinished still I realise and this will be remedied shortly, before the weekend definitely.

 

[Thunderbrd]

@ls612:

I still would push for Positive traits being only positive and Negative traits being only negative.

That will be absolutely unnecessary as we will have a game option that distills the negative essences on positive traits and the positive essences on negative traits at the players option. We thus need to go ahead and design the traits with some opposing values to suit those who do not wish to play with this option on.

@Sgt Slick: I can keep trying to work the property manipulators in and a though occurred to me today as to how we can ommit free promos that are positive on negative traits and vice versa but it does require a supporting tag to note that it should be handled this way. But be aware that this is not in the planning stage - aside from those obstacles, its already done. I'll work on seeing what I can do about those obstacles tonight though.

I'll also go through and give thorough feedback shortly BUT, one other thing that stands out for me is with that new Barbarian trait - should give like +100% military build rate - SO was hoping they could build a bit faster and given that they never improve their lands much it'd help to compensate for their basically 'build all military' approach to their cities.

 

[strategyonly]

1. I agree. WW effects should not be too pronounced, because if they are too high they can cripple you.

I can make new promos for the traits, it just needs to be posted in the Promotions thread
Now i am really impressed about this idea, nice works guys.

@sgtslick: I still would push for Positive traits being only positive and Negative traits being only negative. That said I really like the new proposals except from that and JosEPh's comments about WW and Spiritual. If we could get rid of some of the negatives on positive traits and vice versa then I could get behind these traits. Hydro also has some good ideas on this matter.

I completely agree with this statement.

Well I was not sure if he was aware since he put the old ones. If he had wanted the new proposed one then why didn't he just list them? Especially the Aggressive Trait which lists a new one and and old trait when there should only be the "Aggressive" promotion.

I never assume anything anymore since things get looked over, forgotten or even ignored.

Again great idea.

@Hydro All those promotion changes sound great. Ill implement all of them if/when they get done. Im all for it.

Spiritual Don't forget they have lots of building modifiers. They get +1 happy from a bunch of buildings and stuff. Maybe ill reduce max anarchy down to 2 instead of 3? Is that enough?

Try it and see if it works out, can always lower it later if it isn't correct.

In terms of balancing, there are only so many options, the science vs religion is just easy, I don't necessarily agree with it. But from a yin/yan perspective it works. Plus it does kinda have historical context with Galileo and all that. It may seem anti-religious but its not meant to be offensive or anything- it just works as a balancing tool.

War Weariness -
Oki doke, so max +25% war weariness you think? Sure no problem.

-- Any thoughts on me cutting out some of the traits? Any objections etc?

Actually i think it just the right amount, UNLESS, you can make Promotion have a better effect, that would have to be talked over with ls612, then.

@Thunderbrd hmm so what are you saying, sorry bit of a short attention span sometimes.. Your saying I can't use free promotion or property modifiers because the option for neg/pos or pure pos doesn't allow it? Is that right?
If thats the case don't do it. Can't I just simply make two different trait info files, and we have the pure positive one as an optional download with each version or something like that? Thats too big a constraint. If people want the pure positive version they can download it when I finish it. Screw making it an option if it means no property stuff AND no promotion stuff.

Yes i agree here.

Yeah I don't like the war weariness on charismatic either..
So yeah I agree get rid of war weariness, but it still might need another slight negative? Not sure at the moment.

NEG/POS vs Pure POS.

Im happy to do a pure POS version, let me just get this one working first. So in a couple of weeks once this is done/balanced ill do the pure positive version. Hopefully this will satisfy people.

@Strategyonly it'd be really cool if for example, financial cities had a slightly higher likelihood of generating merchants over other specialists, scientific - scientists, deceiver - spies. If this were possible it might help to alleviate some of the problems of too few doctors/spies.

Sounds good to me.

Ok so made a few changes -

Put in barbarian trait:
BARBARIAN

+1
+1
-20% upkeep modifier
free aggressive promo on melee

-- Over the course of the week/weekend ill make lots of changes to these and hopefully we can implement a working version by monday/tuesday, if thunderbrd has the tags implemented by then mind you. Some of the traits are completely unfinished still I realize and this will be remedied shortly, before the weekend definitely.

I thought "we" already had a Barbarian Trait??

 

[Sgtslick]

I thought "we" already had a Barbarian Trait??

Yeah I just hadn't listed it properly.

Added +50% military production for barbs. Is that enough for you? ya sadist SO.

 

[strategyonly]

Yeah I just hadn't listed properly.

Added +50% military production for barbs. Is that enough for you, ya sadist SO.

ahahaha your finally catching on aren't you

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Hydro All those promotion changes sound great. Ill implement all of them if/when they get done. Im all for it.
Regarding aggressive, I thought they were gonna get both promo's.. hmm I can cut combat 1 if u want but it needs like +15% great generals isntead? What u reckon?

You could boost the Aggressive Promotion and/or do the Great Generals. One would have to do some testing with the other traits to see how they balanced out but I don't have a problem with either choice or both. I was only concerned about existing promotions devaluing free promotions on Culture units or given out by buildings for free and even the free promotions you get once and awhile during battle. As I have said having "trait promotions" makes them both special to the traits but doesn't devalue the other promotions.

 

[Thunderbrd]

We WERE going to boost the Aggressive promotion to +20% Attack +10% Defense... So if that's sufficient, I guess its over to ls612 to update.




OK, ok, so I get that its important to ya to make sure we can use negative property manipulators on positive traits and positive manipulators on negative traits (and apparently positive promos on negative traits and vice versa as well...) SO I came up with a solution that should be workable enough.

Now, the one limitation we'd have with those should be more acceptable.

We simply cannot have BOTH a negative and a positive promotion on the same trait. That shouldn't be problematic, though, as our plan now is to have each trait have only one well defined promotion and it can, itself, have both positive and negative qualities - though the filtering process for the game option will not extend to manipulating the values on any promotions themselves.

In other words, if a promotion is mostly negative, and its going on a positive trait, then we must notify the system that said promotion is not to be awarded when the Pure Traits game option is in use by utilizing a new bImpurePromotions tag (setting it to true.) The same is done when you have a mostly positive promotion on a negative trait.

And the downside is that if you have both a mostly positive promotion and a mostly negative promotion going on any trait, there's no way to filter out the negative one specifically. I CAN fix that so that we could have this functionality, but since any of our traits would only have one promotion attached to it, that extra effort shouldn't be necessary should it?


Nor may we have BOTH a negative and a positive Property Manipulator on the same trait (such as a positive bonus to crime and a negative penalty to disease.) Again, AIAndy might be able to get us around that if its REALLY necessary but I wouldn't think THAT's too constraining, is it?

I'm also not saying we can't have two or more Property Manipulators on the same trait, just that they need to be both positive or both negative.

So if we have Property Manipulators that are in violation of a Pure Traits rule (Positive Manipulator on a Negative trait or Negative Manipulator on a Positive trait) then we must simply turn a new bImpurePropertyManipulators tag to true.

Easy enough? Does this keep the system functional enough to work with then? I don't believe any of your current proposals would find this problematic...

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Thunderbrd

In other words, if a promotion is mostly negative, and its going on a positive trait, then we must notify the system that said promotion is not to be awarded when the Pure Traits game option is in use by utilizing a new bImpurePromotions tag (setting it to true.) The same is done when you have a mostly positive promotion on a negative trait.

So that's possible? If so you don't need to say have 2 of the same promotions? Such as 1 promotion for "Black/White" style and one for "Gray" style? Or are your saying is depending upon what option you pick the same promotion will have different stats?

 

[Sgtslick]

I don't mind how the promotions turn out to be honest, just as long as there are promotions. I like the idea of only the one promotion instead of the sometimes 2 or 3, as long as it is equally as powerful (or similar). I guess its not essential though.
Although two traits spring to mind, nomad and deceiver, both having the multiple promotions is kinda essential. Nomad especially is all about those promotions, they have some heavy negatives coz they get a couple of uber strong promotions. Thats not to say I can't just completely rebalance them. Anyway, i'll leave the promotions in whoever is doing them's hands.
I don't think there are any negative promotions, so im a bit miffed there. I guess if promotions were like +20% attack -30% defence, then this is deemed a negative promotion? Idk..

Not having both neg/pos property manipulators in the one trait is fine with me.

This doesn't change anything really, so sounds totally fine overall thunderbrd thx.

 

[Thunderbrd]

@Thunderbrd
So that's possible? If so you don't need to say have 2 of the same promotions? Such as 1 promotion for "Black/White" style and one for "Gray" style? Or are your saying is depending upon what option you pick the same promotion will have different stats?

The game option Pure Traits can only omit a promotion entirely. It wouldn't be able to alter the definition of the promotion stemming from the trait. I would urge us therefore, to make our promotions either all positive or all negative for the trait freebies. If you have a promotion that is positive on a negative trait, or a promotion that is negative on a positive trait, you can simply use the boolean tag I've added to let the system know that under the Pure Traits game option it should not be counted for that trait.

I don't mind how the promotions turn out to be honest, just as long as there are promotions. I like the idea of only the one promotion instead of the sometimes 2 or 3, as long as it is equally as powerful (or similar). I guess its not essential though.
Although two traits spring to mind, nomad and deceiver, both having the multiple promotions is kinda essential. Nomad especially is all about those promotions, they have some heavy negatives coz they get a couple of uber strong promotions. Thats not to say I can't just completely rebalance them. Anyway, i'll leave the promotions in whoever is doing them's hands.
I don't think there are any negative promotions, so im a bit miffed there. I guess if promotions were like +20% attack -30% defence, then this is deemed a negative promotion? Idk..

Yeah, exactly, more negative than positive. But as I said above, due to this minor design limitation, any trait based free promos should probably be either all positive or all negative, no mixed bag stuff like your example there.

Also, any of those traits with multiple promos just means a much stronger single promo for the trait right? (it also means its even more powerful as some of those can then double up with the actual promos they're replacing!)

Not having both neg/pos property manipulators in the one trait is fine with me.

Cool. That's a relief that this mechanism will be sufficient.

So yeah, just so all of you are completely aware of what the new options do we have the following new options going on the svn very shortly, along with all the new tags (I was planning tonight but I think I may have to wait til' tomorrow evening):

1) No Negative Traits: Eliminates the applicability of any negative traits. All leaders are assigned negative traits as normal but in the game with this option in effect, those traits are non-existent entirely.

And

2) Pure Traits: Removes all negative values on Positive Traits and all positive values on Negative Traits. Note that when I say positive or negative here I mean beneficial vs detrimental, not merely from a mathematical perspective. So in short, it makes the positive traits ALL positive and the negative traits ALL negative.

On that last one, there may have been a few tags in the rev section where I may not have understood what was positive and what was negative correctly.

Those rev tags are as follows and I'll let you know what I believed them to be so anyone can correct me if I'm wrong: (red = + assumed bad, blue = + assumed good)
<iRevIdxLocal>
<iRevIdxNational>
<iRevIdxHolyCityGood>
<iRevIdxHolyCityBad>
<fRevIdxNationalityMod>
<fRevIdxBadReligionMod>
<fRevIdxGoodReligionMod>
<iRevIdxDistanceModifier>

I think this was pretty much all was left in question. To program this option required each individual tag was manipulated to return a "null" value (whatever that meant for those specific tags) when the value was requested, so it forever changes how trait tags must be programmed in from here on (but its not all that complex really...)

Since I'll be committing tomorrow that gives me time to get a response on those Rev values from someone in the know.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Thunderbrd

If you select BOTH "No Negative Traits" AND "Pure Traits" will you end up with only "Pure Positive Traits"?

 

[Sgtslick]

<iRevIdxLocal> + = good
<iRevIdxNational> + = good
<iRevIdxHolyCityGood> + = good
<iRevIdxHolyCityBad> + = bad
<fRevIdxNationalityMod> + = good
<fRevIdxBadReligionMod> + =bad (works as a percentage, so .5 = 50%)
<fRevIdxGoodReligionMod> + = good (works as a percentage so .5 = 50%)
<iRevIdxDistanceModifier> don't know about this.

Thats my understanding anyway.

* RevDCM Specific Code Proposals
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=328664
It could be in this thread - the definitive answer that is.