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Faerun

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Modpacks' started by FramedArchitect, Dec 16, 2012.

  1. carn

    carn Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2005
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    If i remeber correctly even in standard game there are coast(aka ocean) tiles and lake tiles and having a coast tile is requirement for any ship or ship building.

    That this is intentional is indicated by coast giving +1food+1gold, while lakes give +2 food and +1 gold (both in faerun and in standard). So the lake tiles have already the lighthouse bonus included. For standard games this makes lake as good as coast, as standard coast does not receive any further bonus.

    Traderoute link requires even in standard game an explored unbroken chain of coast or ocean tiles between the two cities with harbor. Therefore a harbor on an enclosed lake cannot give traderoute anywhere. (maybe to another city on the same lake, which also has a harbor modded, but it might be that lake tiles are generally not counted as traderoute). You see this tw nicely when some enemy ships are along the explored route, the traderouteicons of the cities show the traderoute is broken. The game bonuses also change accordingly (e.g. i had a standard game, where i finished liberty tree and got +1 happy per traderoute, whenever an enemy ship blocked some routes happiness went down accordingly).
     
  2. carn

    carn Warlord

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    @FramedArchtiect

    Since you seem to be interested in feedback, i'll give some general ideas, which i think would be useful to keep in mind:

    -ingame descriptions should be long and clear enough in respect to game effects that testing is minimized

    e.g. evocation bloodbriars in game description says something like "Cast a spell that allows cities to claim nearby resources faster." That contains practically no information about what the game effect would be. Faster border expansion for cities (e.g. like Krepost special effect from normal game)? One time border boost? Reduced gold costs for buying squares? One would have to test to find out, although the effect is in principle known from mod code.

    e.g. evocation wall of fire in game description neither in policy selection screen nor in help menu says only 3 can be built. And the building description of wall of fire does not say clearly whether 3 at the same time existing is the limit or whether its in total only 3 may ever be built (which makes a big difference and again would have to be tested).

    e.e. abjuration sanctuary (at least i think so) says something like "Cast a spell to boost strength of all units near capital". That means one should gather units then select it and then use the upped units to conquer some neighbors, as its a one time strength boost for the units currently gathered round capital? Or is it a permanent ability of the capital, which increases strength for all units as long as they are in certain radius? Which radius? What boost exactly, relative or absolute (e.g. +10% or +1 strength)?

    There are further examples, these are listed just as an example what the idea is, a lot of special content is nice, but frustrating if one has to test to know the game effects.

    -try to avoid many one time boost, especially those, that are stronlgy dependent on timing

    It is not fun, if for getting a decent benefit one has to micro a lot.

    E.g. evocation command plants, if it is selected when all cities are just 1 turn away from growing its effect is a one time boost of a few food per city. If it is selected just after all cities have grown it can be a bonus worth several thousand points of food. Same if some settlers are moving aroung, just before they settle its a non-boost, directly afterwards its a great boost. Without changing much on the other hand this could be avoided, for example instead of filling granaries up, command plants provides 3/4*the amount of food the full granary would have. Then its less relevant what the exact granary filling of each city currently is. As a further modification, if possible, it also provides a similar food bonus whenever a new city is founded, then even the timing of settlers is less relevant and actually its never a bad time to pick the ability. Yet the overall game effect is similar.

    -keep AI in mind or more precisely try to model buildings, units, magical paths and so such way, that the AI is not total failure in using them

    e.g. just the above, i suspect that the AI does not "know" the bonus command plants give, so if he will ever get it, it will be completely random whether its a boost or not.

    Another example is the wall of fire, i suspect the AI cannot handle the concept of a defensive building that can only be build a limited number of times, as standard game does not contain such buildings. So rather likely the AI will build them anywhere, instead of where they are needed. Unless its absolutely desired a lesser bonus in all cities would be easier for the AI to handle and therefore preferable.

    Obviously with some things, its just bad luck for the AI, but if for something variations are possible, the one best usable for the AI should be taken.

    -whenever possible magical and mundane should be distinct or in other words they should feel differently

    This depends a bit on the design goal, but to explain the idea, its not fascinating to play a fantasy mod, in which a late game unit is an uber dragon, which can operate only from cities, has 10 tiles range, 95 bombard attack, cannot be intercepted and requires the late game resource alamantium, because then its just a renamed stealth bomber. Or when can build a swordsman with strength 14 and nothing else and then later can build a demon with strength 21 and nothing else. There is no magic, just that instead of longswordman its called demon.

    If you know the games Masters of Magic and Age of Wonders i think the point would be even clearer. In Master of Magic there are mundane units, for which the advanced versions mostly have improved statistics, but normally nothing special, and then there are magic creatures which can have abilities like stone gaze, flying, regeneration, teleport, weapon immunity, which are mostly completly absent from mundane units. In Age of Wonders the first unit of a certain race and of a certain magic path are regenerating zombies and net throwing posisinous wall climbing spiders and the high end units are black breath bone dragons and a lifestealing grim reapers - it does not feel in anyway special to have a magical unit and if i didnt remeber i would not know which of regenerating zombies, poisonous wall climbing spiders, bone dragons and grim reapers are the "mundane" units and which require "magic".

    For this mod, this means that unique promotions should be only avaiable to units that are tied to some of the magic or alignment choice, e.g. no unit that is simply avaiable in the general tech tree should as standard have teleport, summon and such. The units from the general tech tree should without specific magical path choices just have promotions similar to the ancient to middle age units of standard civ. (though as far as i can see, this is currently so, just keep it)

    (Ok, enough wall of text.)
     
  3. S.O.T MAHak

    S.O.T MAHak Warlord

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    And if I remember correctly a sea in CIV constitute 10 coast/lake tiles or more.

    http://www.dndjunkie.com/civilopedia/FEATURE_LAKE.aspx
     
  4. carn

    carn Warlord

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  5. Attolmo

    Attolmo Chieftain

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    Thanx for the clarification on lakes SOT and carn! :)

    My last question still stands then for FA. That would mean it is impossible to trade route link one's cities in the Underdark and above ground. This does make sense in some ways I guess for balance issues, just wondering if it is intentional :)
     
  6. mrscotty

    mrscotty Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2012
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    41
    Time for a quick question that I can't find on this thread or the game help:

    The game occasionally pops up quests for "oh look, it's a dragon" or "a necromancer" which is a cool feature. Went and killed a dragon in my first game, and in my second, a notification for a shadow druid not far from me came up. So I brought my whole army over to where the game said he'd be, along with more than one mage who incidentally had the truesight promotion, and he wasn't there. My question is this: has he either wandered away, or is he some kind of special invisible I can't see through, or is his not appearing likely to be a glitch? Because when I showed up for the dragon he was right exactly where the game said he'd appear, and he didn't seem interested in moving.

    EDIT: Also, as an aside, it'd be cool if the boss monsters were in the civlopedia, just so it would be more clear what a new player would be getting into when they go after them.
     
  7. ShaggyCan

    ShaggyCan Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2007
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    The Dragons seem to stay put, but the necromancer definetly moves, he spawned right next to me (Dwarves) in the Underdark, and basically cut off my easy surface access for 500 years! I went to go slay him and he was gone! I eventually found him just west of the drow.

    I don't get the limited workers thing, I think you could do something cool with workers, but it seems a bit much to limit it that much. Thay could have limited zombie workers, and the the dwarves could have the limited workers, but they can build really fast due to thier skill etc. The only thing that is cool about limited workers is that it ramps conflict, cause you basically have to steal them from others once you build more than 6 cities or so.

    But still crazy fun mod!
     
  8. FramedArchitect

    FramedArchitect Reluctant Modder

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Missouri
    Thanks everyone who took time to post comments about bugs and other inadequacies. I am reading everything closely, and am working towards making the mod better with your ideas.

    On that note, I'll be releasing v.6 on Sunday. It includes some fixes for the more egregious problems, like lack of trade routes between realms, and some balancing.

    It will also include "new" content that I wasn't ready to release a few weeks ago, including three Unique Heroes (can only be recruited once, and only by civs that have founded a Pantheon), new abilities for Clerics trained in Holy Cities, and a new spell in each School of Magic.

    After v.6 my plan is to completely overhaul the Tech Tree and Buildings, as well as make Alignment an in-game choice (with repercussions). That said, as soon as PawelS or Pazyryk release their fantasy mods I will suspend working on Faerun for very obvious reasons.

    Best, FA
     
  9. esvath

    esvath Apprentice of Erebus

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    Nonononooooo.... Please don't do this. I will play all three in between doing whatever I should do :lol:

    Seriously, this mod is :goodjob:, because of its fantasy flavor, and more specifically because of its FR flavor. I just love playing Drizzt :D. Please don't stop its development.
     
  10. shrandis

    shrandis Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2013
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    This mod really seems cool and I couldn't find an answer by searching.
    Is it possible to select which victory conditions I want to play the mod with? If yes, how? For example, I want to disable all victory conditions other than domination while playing this mod, how do I do it?
     
  11. Guanyin

    Guanyin Chieftain

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    Feb 10, 2013
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    Is there a way to run this mod on multiplayer?
     
  12. FramedArchitect

    FramedArchitect Reluctant Modder

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    No, but if you want to avoid a certain victory type simply ignore it? The AI has very little chance of winning the new victory types.

    I know absolutely nothing about the multi-player aspect of this game. That said, I have heard it is currently impossible to run mods in the multi environment.

    I wish there were a fitting unit animation for this hero....
     
  13. shrandis

    shrandis Chieftain

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    I was talking about disabling the standard victory types like diplomacy, science etc. Thanks for the reply.
     
  14. FramedArchitect

    FramedArchitect Reluctant Modder

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    I updated the mod to v.6 today. For those who like Heroes, you'll have three more to choose from: Drizzt, Fzoul, and Yoshimo. Warning: Upgrading from v.5 will break saved games!
     
  15. orlanth

    orlanth Storm God. Yarr!

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    wow, this looks awesome! :goodjob: downloading now :king:
     
  16. esvath

    esvath Apprentice of Erebus

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    Minsc! I want Minsc! :lol:
     
  17. S.O.T MAHak

    S.O.T MAHak Warlord

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    and Boo!
     
  18. radionin

    radionin Chieftain

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    Feb 12, 2013
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    Hey

    Just downloaded your great mod! Played a couple different races already but I've gotten deeper into tethyr.

    The special unit for tethyr is not showing up anywhere in my construction menu, its even missing from the tech tree no sign of knights or Chalice Knights on my tech tree.

    Mod is running super well on my mac as a side note.
     
  19. FramedArchitect

    FramedArchitect Reluctant Modder

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    v.7 will provide a fix for Chalice Knights. Thanks for the report!
     
  20. radionin

    radionin Chieftain

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    Feb 12, 2013
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    Hey

    Found another Bug

    Playing Cormyth "purple dragon chick"

    I have cut of lathander Cleric that dies from attrition when at war in enemy land.
     

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