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Fall from heaven SG - High to Low

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by Ichabod, Nov 10, 2010.

  1. Jusos2108

    Jusos2108 Chieftain

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    Perps army is about three times stronger than ours, so I wouldn't consider it a significant threat. Just spam axemen, currently only two of our cities are doing that. Battle plan is quite simple: finish off Beeri (4-7 turns), declare war on Perp, surround Loki into the Beeri's old hill city and march on to their capital.

    However, I do believe that trading with both Perp and Auric was a slight mistake as they are our worst competition, we should rather take one Horseman through Perps lands to meet other civs to see where we stand and to whom we might switch to.
     
  2. Jusos2108

    Jusos2108 Chieftain

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    So Ozbenno, when are you going to play, or should I?
     
  3. Ichabod

    Ichabod Gaucho

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    Guys, I'm back.

    Still can't look at the save, but can give some opinions based on the pictures.

    First, Fleme, based on one of your comments, I had the impression that you think Barnaxus has the hero promotion, which gives XP per turn. But, IIRC, he doesn't have it, so we can expect to see the golems remain with the same promotions for quite some time (according to pictures, Barnaxus has combat 2, since the golems have empower 2).

    We should check which techs our enemies have in the trading screen. IMO, we have quite some time until mimics, since smelting + iron working is a lot of science, but I could be wrong. Based on score, I don't think Perp has it, though. IIRC, he tends to go culture (drama, festivals, trade), so I think we have some time.

    Problem is that we are boxed between Perp and Auric, probably two of the most powerful leaders in the game, which makes chewing on the weaklings something harder.

    Hunting could be a good choice of tech, since our recon line is good and hawks will be extremely helpful to scout the land and meet (and trade with, both techs and TRs, sice we have sailing) the other rivals.

    We should think about trying to get a hero or some kind of collateral damage, we'll need one of those to keep conquering.

    Catapults are very good in FfH, if we could trade/get construction for peace with Beeri, it could be very helpful. Although we'll need a lot of hammers to startb producing catapults...

    Going Sorcery would give us potential collateral from mages (maelstrom with air mana, fireballs with fire mana, spectres with death mana...). Going AV would give ritualists with priesthood (and potentially heroes, as long as AV isn't founded yet, since someone will get them first, probably).
     
  4. Ozbenno

    Ozbenno Fly Fly Away Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    I was hoping to be able to play yesterday but it never happened, won't be able to for another couple days now so can make a swap with Jusos if that is convienient
     
  5. Jusos2108

    Jusos2108 Chieftain

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    Okey, I'll play tonight.
     
  6. Jusos2108

    Jusos2108 Chieftain

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    Turn 301 This doesn't look good.
    Spoiler :


    Turn 304 Beeri is gone. I declare war on Perp immeatidely, so that Loki can't flip Tiaran. Morrtebio is destroyed and Loki surrounded.
    Spoiler :


    Turn 305 Our super Axeman becomes the Heroes of the Sword. Alexis declares war on us.
    Spoiler :


    Turn 306 Loki is killed, Perp approaches with stack of swordmen (~10), but doesn't dare to attack any of our cities, so it is slowly consumed by our Hero Axeman. Meanwhile CR3 axemen approach Jubilee.
    Spoiler :


    Turn 316 Perp withdraws his last swords from Jubilee and it fells to us.
    Spoiler :


    Turn 317 We meet the current #1, Arendel. Perp has Mimics and iron!:run:
    Couple turns earlier and we would've been screwed..
    Spoiler :


    Turn 320 Situation in the end.
     
  7. Brian Shanahan

    Brian Shanahan Permanoob

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    Looks fairly good from here, so Perp was a paper tiger after all? I suppose finish taking him out and tech ourselves up while taking out any more weak civs lying around?
     
  8. Jusos2108

    Jusos2108 Chieftain

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    Some notes:
    -Perp doesn't have that many troops to spare, so I doubt that he will attack with significant force. However, our exploring warrior saw a small stack next to the city west of Mutambo.
    -Therefore, I recommend that we take his new capital (I assume), which is marked with X in the last screenshot, with our best units.
    -We should also keep the hill marked with O fortified, so that Perp doesn't surprise us.

    EDIT:
    He could've taken both our newly captured cities in single turn, if he had only attacked, since I was attacking Jubilee with the two CR3 axemen and most of our veterans. But he chose not to and began to withdraw back to Jubilee, which obviously was a mistake, since on open land his swords were eaten alive by our new recruits. So perhaps more of a bad strategic than a paper tiger.:D
     
  9. Ichabod

    Ichabod Gaucho

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    Very nice turnset Jusos. The timing was perfect and the situation looks way better now.

    In fact, Arendel score is not as bad as it looks. It means that, even capturing all Belseraph lands we won't switch right away, making possible to meet the other civs and start preparing our next switch.

    After we research stirrups I think we should go hunting (maybe we could trade it with Arendel) to build some hawks, IMO.

    Trying to get techs from peace with Perpentach might be a good thing to do. After we take some more of his cities (assuming that we can do it now that he has iron working), it might be a good idea.
     
  10. Jusos2108

    Jusos2108 Chieftain

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    Thanks.:D

    Yeah, I think we can finish off Perp without worrying too much about a switch, however, that will take some time now that he has Mimics and it would be awful to switch to Alexis, who obviously has really bad relations with Sandalpon. The situation would be easily exploitable too, which I would like to avoid.

    BTW, I chose Stirrups, because it was farily cheap and thus only tech that could really help us fighting Perp. However, I really think that we shouldn't give any techs to Arendel, no matter what she offers.

    Also (just a detail, but anyways) our newly recruited axemen in Tiaran should keep collecting free experience points from the puppets that Perp keeps sending from Mutanbo. That really helped me and shock is pretty much a must for all our axemen now.

    EDIT: One more thing, Alexis had a stack of morois roaming around Nubia, but she seemingly has kept them there.
     
  11. Fleme

    Fleme Obey the Kitty!

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    Went better than I expected and I'm glad my fears about Perp getting Mimics were a little premature. Raw axe obviously won't do any more and something else is needed in the mix. Mounted war or catapults probably. I think as far as our current material is concerned, the Heroes of the Axe is someone who can take on Mimics with his 5+180%=14 against their 7+40%=9,8 on the field.

    That X spot is awkward as far as direct assault goes with that river and mountain. Wonder if we can go around it?

    Good set, looking forward to seeing where it goes from here.

    That northern city is ripe for the taking at any rate, given how it's cut off from the rest of his empire and he can't apparently upgrade those units to mimics.
     
  12. Jusos2108

    Jusos2108 Chieftain

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    I believe that we can go around the river by just going around the mountain. In the last screenshot you can barely see the end of the river southeast of the mountain, at least I think so.

    Mounted Horse Archers with flanking will be a significant aid, catapults are still a bit far from our reach.

    Perp also has another city in the north with reasonable garrison and a small stack (IIRC with a settler in it). That city is visible in the second last screenshot.
     
  13. Ichabod

    Ichabod Gaucho

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    Well, I'll be to play some turns between tomorrow and next wednesday. So, if everybody doesn't mind, I can play the next turnset.

    If that's the case, I'll post a detailed plan after I take a look at the save.
     
  14. Jusos2108

    Jusos2108 Chieftain

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    Go for it.
     
  15. Brian Shanahan

    Brian Shanahan Permanoob

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  16. Ichabod

    Ichabod Gaucho

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    Well, took a look at the save. The situation is still complicated, even though it has improved a lot.

    I'm not sure where to go from here. We could try to keep the pressure on perpentach and go for a quick switch, but it's not going to be easy.

    So, what I suggest is: conquer the two northern Perp cities and try to negotiate peace taking some techs. Even though our hero axeman is strong, he won't be able to singlehandled destroy the balseraphs. And our production is not the best now that the trees have been chopped.

    I have to admit, I'm kind of lost after looking at the game. I can't think of a safe route to go from here. Maybe if we turtle up a bit, try to discover all the civs in the map and only then make a SoD to attack someone and take us to first place (when we have collateral damage, most likely). I think is the safest route to go.

    What do you guys think?
     
  17. Brian Shanahan

    Brian Shanahan Permanoob

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    I'm thinking you're probably good on Perp, but Alexis is looking weak so maybe there might be an opportunity there. After getting peace, we could go for a few techs (hunting line especially), get more knowledge, and take Alexis out. No need to be too slow either.
     
  18. Jusos2108

    Jusos2108 Chieftain

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    I would rather go against Perp now that he only has garrisons left. Otherwise he might seriously threaten us later. We have two units that can take down his defences (if not attacking over the river), so I would accompany them with couple shock axes and horses, and march them against Perp's new capital.
     
  19. Fleme

    Fleme Obey the Kitty!

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    I'd personally take the northern cities first because they're away from him supplying them with any reinforcements and those probably do not have any kind of infrastructure to help them defend themselves. Furthermore, it would thoroughly suck to find that there's a city up north and we'd have to switch to it.

    Imo this is a situation where we have to tread lightly because we don't want to become the Balseraphs at the switch. I think Alexis here shows a good indication of what a low scoring AI is and we should keep that in mind while dealing with Perp. I find it a good thing that the Ljosalfar have such a high score because it will at least let us take Perp out without too much worry.

    So I'd say leave the hero down south to guard against any threat with a few guys to back him up and have the bulk of the army move north to mop up whatever is to be found there - and do a thorough scouting of the area followed by the final blow to the Balseraph core. Heck, could even consider starting Prophet farming for the Necronomicon if we want the extra score but then again that might make the AI Sandalphon a bit too much to handle.

    So yea, just war war war on the horizon and not much else.
     
  20. Jusos2108

    Jusos2108 Chieftain

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    Northern or the southern (maybe three), doesn't really matter. I think we are going to have to avoid switching to Alexis.
     

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