Ichabod
Gaucho
Ok, I'll play the turnset probably tomorrow.
Fall from heaven SG - High to Low
- Thread starter Ichabod
- Start date
Ichabod
Gaucho
Just a quick update.
Played 6 turns. A Great Scientist was born in Celo. I'm not sure about what to do with him. Our best science city has 37 bpt. The GS would bulb alteration.
So, settle him, make an academy at capital or bulb alteration?
Another thing. What to research after stirrups. Personally, I'd go for hunting (9 turns with our deficit research). Construction (8 turns with our deficit research) is another option.
I'll leave this here and wait for some input. If noone is given, I'll probably finish playing it tonight.
Played 6 turns. A Great Scientist was born in Celo. I'm not sure about what to do with him. Our best science city has 37 bpt. The GS would bulb alteration.
So, settle him, make an academy at capital or bulb alteration?
Another thing. What to research after stirrups. Personally, I'd go for hunting (9 turns with our deficit research). Construction (8 turns with our deficit research) is another option.
I'll leave this here and wait for some input. If noone is given, I'll probably finish playing it tonight.
Brian Shanahan
Permanoob
I think hunting is the better option after stirrups, as that is where the Sirdar have the unit advantages. Also at this stage (seeing as we'll be a while yet before changing) I would academy the GSci.
Ichabod
Gaucho
One option is to make the academy in Jubilee (conquered balseraph capital). It has far better potential compared to our capital (developed cottages, for instance). Problem is, the unhapiness + belseraph culture is crushing the city capabilities.
Guess going for better short term benefit is better.
Guess going for better short term benefit is better.
How many turns do we think we're stuck as the Sidar as? How many beakers is Alteration? I would think that bulbing it will give us better use of the GS won't it? If we still think we have 100+ turns as the Sidar maybe Jubilee Academy is the best use...
Brian Shanahan
Permanoob
Well I'm thinking we're stuck for a while so that's why I'm suggesting Academy.
Ichabod
Gaucho
Ok, played 30 turns.
We haven't switched yet, being less then 100 points behind the leader (varn gosam, not the elves). We are still at war with the clowns, even after taking their northern cities. We have a good stack of axeman and the first Horse Archer is out. An adept, able to cast enchanting blade, will come in a few turns and we can build some catapults after a while.
We can take argenteria by brute force now, but I think we'll have a lot of losses. If we manage to do it, we'll cut perp's acess to iron, if I'm not mistaken. Maybe I should have attacked it some turns ago, but I was not sure if everybody would agree.
Traded a lot of techs with the lesser AIs, connected our empire to foreign trade routes and almost doubled our GNP (we're number 2 now, revolted to Aristocracy + Agrarianism). Our happy cap is higher too.
We can make the switch next turnset if we attack perp just to take 1 or 2 more cities and if we make some trades with other AIs. Well, at least I think we can. We will switch to the newly found Khazad if we do that. Luckily, the khazad have a good room for exapnsion in their backyard.
We're currently teching poisons for our hero. There's nothing useful to tech right now, since Iron working would take ages.
I'll post the detailed report tomorrow, but will provide the save now.
We haven't switched yet, being less then 100 points behind the leader (varn gosam, not the elves). We are still at war with the clowns, even after taking their northern cities. We have a good stack of axeman and the first Horse Archer is out. An adept, able to cast enchanting blade, will come in a few turns and we can build some catapults after a while.
We can take argenteria by brute force now, but I think we'll have a lot of losses. If we manage to do it, we'll cut perp's acess to iron, if I'm not mistaken. Maybe I should have attacked it some turns ago, but I was not sure if everybody would agree.
Traded a lot of techs with the lesser AIs, connected our empire to foreign trade routes and almost doubled our GNP (we're number 2 now, revolted to Aristocracy + Agrarianism). Our happy cap is higher too.
We can make the switch next turnset if we attack perp just to take 1 or 2 more cities and if we make some trades with other AIs. Well, at least I think we can. We will switch to the newly found Khazad if we do that. Luckily, the khazad have a good room for exapnsion in their backyard.
We're currently teching poisons for our hero. There's nothing useful to tech right now, since Iron working would take ages.
I'll post the detailed report tomorrow, but will provide the save now.
Brian Shanahan
Permanoob
Right I'll repost the roster with the change of putting Ichabod in at 3:
1. Ozbenno
2. Jusos2108
3. Ichabod
4. Brian Shanahan >>UP
5. Fleme >>ON DECK
6. Bill Bisco
So I guess I'm up. As it's 00:30 over here I'm not playing until tomorrow, but I'll have a look at the save and post a quick plan.
1. Ozbenno
2. Jusos2108
3. Ichabod
4. Brian Shanahan >>UP
5. Fleme >>ON DECK
6. Bill Bisco
So I guess I'm up. As it's 00:30 over here I'm not playing until tomorrow, but I'll have a look at the save and post a quick plan.
Brian Shanahan
Permanoob
Ok seperate post for the thoughts:
Perp still has four cities and it will be a slog to get to the bottom 2. But then again Hexam is OO holy city so that'll be worth a bit.
Biggest problem is where we're going to jump to. Arturus is backwards, hemmed in, and short on techs. And to make it worse Varn Gossam, the leader, is parked beside him. But on the other hand Alexis is only 100 points ahead, so if we need a conquest to switch out, we'll have to eliminate her fairly rapidly for fear of a switch to her.
It's going to be tough running this gauntlet.
Perp still has four cities and it will be a slog to get to the bottom 2. But then again Hexam is OO holy city so that'll be worth a bit.
Biggest problem is where we're going to jump to. Arturus is backwards, hemmed in, and short on techs. And to make it worse Varn Gossam, the leader, is parked beside him. But on the other hand Alexis is only 100 points ahead, so if we need a conquest to switch out, we'll have to eliminate her fairly rapidly for fear of a switch to her.
It's going to be tough running this gauntlet.
Ichabod
Gaucho
I don't think switching to the Khazad is going to be that bad. We have room for quite some cities and we can colonize the islands surrounding the main continent (even though the khazad are maybe the worst civ to expand with), since the naval AI in FfH is very bad.
When we are near a switch, we can gift techs to the civ will be switching to. Of course, we can debate wheter this is fair play or not.
Usually the third switch takes me to a totally backwards civ, so the situation in this game isn't looking that bad. The FfH AI takes quite a lot of time to win a game, so we can slowly crawl ourselves to a good position and take the win.
When we are near a switch, we can gift techs to the civ will be switching to. Of course, we can debate wheter this is fair play or not.
Usually the third switch takes me to a totally backwards civ, so the situation in this game isn't looking that bad. The FfH AI takes quite a lot of time to win a game, so we can slowly crawl ourselves to a good position and take the win.
Brian Shanahan
Permanoob
I won't be up to playing tonight sorry, my sleeping pattern is a bit out of whack and I'm just too tired to give it proper attention, will play tomorrow morning.
Fleme
Obey the Kitty!
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2003
- Messages
- 1,205
Gifting techs to the bottom 2 at the end of our set seems like the smart thing to do. In fact, techs are so valuable as far as score is concerned, we can actually choose between Alexis, Capria and Arturus when the switch is imminent by influencing their scores with tech trades. I ran a test and by dumping everything on Arturus (wasn't a 1-turn job btw) and something on Alexis, they were both over Capria as far as score was concerned. I think there's also a way to go for Einion Logos if we so choose but that's a bit more micro I think.
Either way, if we trade a few techs (Philo, FoL) from the mid-low scorers we can actually rise our score considerably and added to that Poisons and perhaps one or at worst 2 Balseraph cities, we're good to go.
I think next set will see the switch but where do we want to land?
Einion has an island just north of him that will be perfect for just scoring purposes. The AI will never go there and he's safe behind friends but I think it takes more time to get to him because we have to influence the bottom three in order to do so. Capria has decent land to himself and is definitely an option. Arturus just plain old sucks and I really don't want to end up there. Alexis has the merit of having Vampires which are very useful for climbing out of holes with. With her it's an issue of having the capacity to tech there and if she's gifted too many techs her score becomes too high. On the choices.
Either way, if we trade a few techs (Philo, FoL) from the mid-low scorers we can actually rise our score considerably and added to that Poisons and perhaps one or at worst 2 Balseraph cities, we're good to go.
I think next set will see the switch but where do we want to land?
Einion has an island just north of him that will be perfect for just scoring purposes. The AI will never go there and he's safe behind friends but I think it takes more time to get to him because we have to influence the bottom three in order to do so. Capria has decent land to himself and is definitely an option. Arturus just plain old sucks and I really don't want to end up there. Alexis has the merit of having Vampires which are very useful for climbing out of holes with. With her it's an issue of having the capacity to tech there and if she's gifted too many techs her score becomes too high. On the choices.
Ichabod
Gaucho
Alexis has quite some things going for her. She founded AV (so we have acess to the heroes + the ritual that gives a free tech), she has vampires, orthus Axe (always helps), a good stack of morois...
We can manage to get some land just fast with this. When we switch, the AI who'll take control of Sidar won't finish the Balseraphs, so we can take their last cities. Maybe it can go as far as shading our high xp units, making possible for us to take all the land back to whom it belongs to.
But the choice isn't that obvious, maybe we should wait for some input before playing the next set.
We can manage to get some land just fast with this. When we switch, the AI who'll take control of Sidar won't finish the Balseraphs, so we can take their last cities. Maybe it can go as far as shading our high xp units, making possible for us to take all the land back to whom it belongs to.
But the choice isn't that obvious, maybe we should wait for some input before playing the next set.
Brian Shanahan
Permanoob
OK I haven't played the set yet, which is a good thing. There is a debate on who to switch to of the bottom four, and we're not decided.
Looking at the save and our four realistic choices, I feel that either Capria or Einion are the best choices, both are in good positions, Capria having more land now, but Einon having the better growth potential. Of course they're beside two of the leaders but it's one giant love in there. Tech wise Capria is a lot weaker than Einon at the moment.
Alexis has things going for her too, like AV and some relatively decent barb cities already planted, however Altheriol is splitting her empire in 2 thus necessitating a war at some stage, and Sandalphon will be the strongest player when we take over (at Alexis' weakest).
Arturus is just in a bad position IMO, squeezed by the current clear leader and no easy island outs. While there is land free it is not very much and Varn could take a good chunk of it even then. Both Arturus and Alexis are in a roughly similar position tech wise, a bit behind Einion, but ahead of Capria.
Now my techs analysis is simply from an eyeball of the tech trading screen, showing what is needed, so while players may be in a similar position on tech level, a more focused approach may give one civ the edge I'm not seeing.
However my preference (if we can/are willing to swing it) is:
1) Einion
2) Capria
3) Alexis, and a large drop to
4) Arturus.
Looking at the save and our four realistic choices, I feel that either Capria or Einion are the best choices, both are in good positions, Capria having more land now, but Einon having the better growth potential. Of course they're beside two of the leaders but it's one giant love in there. Tech wise Capria is a lot weaker than Einon at the moment.
Alexis has things going for her too, like AV and some relatively decent barb cities already planted, however Altheriol is splitting her empire in 2 thus necessitating a war at some stage, and Sandalphon will be the strongest player when we take over (at Alexis' weakest).
Arturus is just in a bad position IMO, squeezed by the current clear leader and no easy island outs. While there is land free it is not very much and Varn could take a good chunk of it even then. Both Arturus and Alexis are in a roughly similar position tech wise, a bit behind Einion, but ahead of Capria.
Now my techs analysis is simply from an eyeball of the tech trading screen, showing what is needed, so while players may be in a similar position on tech level, a more focused approach may give one civ the edge I'm not seeing.
However my preference (if we can/are willing to swing it) is:
1) Einion
2) Capria
3) Alexis, and a large drop to
4) Arturus.
Fleme
Obey the Kitty!
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2003
- Messages
- 1,205
Arturus' spot is miserable and I honestly wouldn't want to climb out of that hole. The dwarves, I find, don't lend themselves to offensive warfare as well as our other alternatives do and they'd have to contend with the bosses at any rate - not a fun task.
That said, the other alternatives are all interesting in their own way and with that I will tie my vote between the three without preference and have Arturus' as the absolute last.
That said, the other alternatives are all interesting in their own way and with that I will tie my vote between the three without preference and have Arturus' as the absolute last.
Brian Shanahan
Permanoob
Ok then we seem to be coming to a consensus as regards the civ to run for. But one question about loading on techs to the ones we don't want last. Is it simply a case of picking a time when I'm a turn or two from switching and gifting techs en masse, or should I do it from the start of my set and build up that way. And obviously it's just a case of not giving the civ we want to swap into enough techs to stay ahead.
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