Bill Bisco
Callous Calling
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2007
- Messages
- 590
I will continue this when I get a chance. Family activities abound! Hopefully I can get this done tonight!
Fall from heaven SG - High to Low
- Thread starter Ichabod
- Start date
Brian Shanahan
Permanoob
Well this one is going like lightning, looks good though. I'll be back early Friday (about 4p.m. Irish time) and will be available from then
Bulbing the GS is the best option. We need to start attacking Perpentach right after Luchuirp are dead. Spam those axes and we should be all right. Horses as well will be good.
Fleme
Obey the Kitty!
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2003
- Messages
- 1,205
Actually, when Ithralia comes out of revolt it will be enveloped in Balseraph culture so I think it might even be a smart strategy to go for Perpentach even before finishing the Luchuirp since whatever he has will be on flat land and superman can just grind that away as it wasn't even there.
Another obvious argument to back this up is obviously the fact that the city will be under heavy revolt risk and we simply cannot reach the Luchuirp via Ithralia anymore and will have to circle around the mountainrange if we wish to gain ground there. At any rate, taking their capital should be a decisive blow and while I do not suggest we just take one of their cities and then move on the Balseraph, perhaps it would be viable to make a stab at Perp, free Ithralia from his pressure and then continue on with the Luchuirp mission. The way I see it is that this kind of course of action would have two consequences: 1) Perpentach would be considerably weakened by the loss of his capital or major city that is suffocating Ithralia and most likely lose a majority of his usable army and 2) We'd have the freedom to finish off the Luchuirp without having to worry about Perp getting Ithralia and we'd have to take that city all over again.
I peeked at the game just long enough to see what happens to Ithralia after it comes out of revolt and the result is that it will have the 9 (NE) tile open for traffic and otherwise be fully enveloped in Balseraph culture and have a 9% revolt risk per turn to boot. The situation does not offer options and we have to be decisive.
I feel like a senator.
Another obvious argument to back this up is obviously the fact that the city will be under heavy revolt risk and we simply cannot reach the Luchuirp via Ithralia anymore and will have to circle around the mountainrange if we wish to gain ground there. At any rate, taking their capital should be a decisive blow and while I do not suggest we just take one of their cities and then move on the Balseraph, perhaps it would be viable to make a stab at Perp, free Ithralia from his pressure and then continue on with the Luchuirp mission. The way I see it is that this kind of course of action would have two consequences: 1) Perpentach would be considerably weakened by the loss of his capital or major city that is suffocating Ithralia and most likely lose a majority of his usable army and 2) We'd have the freedom to finish off the Luchuirp without having to worry about Perp getting Ithralia and we'd have to take that city all over again.
I peeked at the game just long enough to see what happens to Ithralia after it comes out of revolt and the result is that it will have the 9 (NE) tile open for traffic and otherwise be fully enveloped in Balseraph culture and have a 9% revolt risk per turn to boot. The situation does not offer options and we have to be decisive.
I feel like a senator.
Brian Shanahan
Permanoob
Well with those options I'd say we go after the Perps. We can always sign a cease fire with the Luchuirp if we need to in the meantime.
I doubt that the culture will be a real issue. We have a settled Great Artist there. I would finish off Beeri before taking on Perp. Beeri is spamming Wood Golems non-stop and will be threat later, if we don't take him out now. In worst case scenario we might accidently end up switching to Beeri.
Fleme
Obey the Kitty!
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9% chance to flip is no joke and extremely hard to counter. Even if his influence on Ithralia is only 11% (it's around that somewhere), it will still massively outdo ours and choke the city and our economy along with it. It's not something that can be written off by dispatching 3 garrison units - more like 15 if you want to eliminate the threat which in turn slows us down and diverts us from our path.
Furthermore on that point, if we have guys stationed in Ithralia, they will have to double back around the mountain range if they wish to make ground on Beeri.
Now, I find it realistic that Beeri might have 2 or 3 more cities remaining and out of those probably 1 or tops 2 are at least to a degree developed. I'm also not seeing the risk of Wood Golems very high at this point because the AI likes to stack all it's eggs in one basket - that basket being the capital.
Also, I'm not saying we go all out on Perp but rather take out whatever it is pressing Ithralia (my money is on that it's his capital), finish Beeri and then finish Perp. While I can see the point in this being quite a hassle, I honestly am not seeing how the alternative would be any better. If the city down south is indeed on flat - which I'm pretty sure it is - the superaxe can just grind away the defenses. Then, with Perp on the recovery leave a few C1 axes to station the clown city and finish off Beeri with our main army. With Beeri out I am fairly sure our score will still be miles from the switch as I'm having a hard time believing that Perpentach would be the top dog out of everyone and would just lead to a natural continuation of the war with Perpentach.
Therefore my suggestion is this and I hope there's support
1) Get some 5 axes to accompany the superaxe in Ithralia -> check revolt rate -> if it remains at unbearable levels, declare on Perp and start moving on the Balseraph city down south.
2) Bring an axe near Ithralia - promote with Mobility so it can move on the city if and when it flips - I honestly think it will.
3) Finish Trade, milk Beeri for what he's got for a cease fire.
4) Take Perpentachs city -> cease fire and milk him for what he'd give us.
5) Redeclare on Beeri, finish him off
6) Redeclare on Perpentach, finish him off.
During which pretty much every city should be building just Axes although the new city up north with it's heavy production could alternatively build Catacomb Libralus for the score. Either way is fine.
Furthermore on that point, if we have guys stationed in Ithralia, they will have to double back around the mountain range if they wish to make ground on Beeri.
Now, I find it realistic that Beeri might have 2 or 3 more cities remaining and out of those probably 1 or tops 2 are at least to a degree developed. I'm also not seeing the risk of Wood Golems very high at this point because the AI likes to stack all it's eggs in one basket - that basket being the capital.
Also, I'm not saying we go all out on Perp but rather take out whatever it is pressing Ithralia (my money is on that it's his capital), finish Beeri and then finish Perp. While I can see the point in this being quite a hassle, I honestly am not seeing how the alternative would be any better. If the city down south is indeed on flat - which I'm pretty sure it is - the superaxe can just grind away the defenses. Then, with Perp on the recovery leave a few C1 axes to station the clown city and finish off Beeri with our main army. With Beeri out I am fairly sure our score will still be miles from the switch as I'm having a hard time believing that Perpentach would be the top dog out of everyone and would just lead to a natural continuation of the war with Perpentach.
Therefore my suggestion is this and I hope there's support
1) Get some 5 axes to accompany the superaxe in Ithralia -> check revolt rate -> if it remains at unbearable levels, declare on Perp and start moving on the Balseraph city down south.
2) Bring an axe near Ithralia - promote with Mobility so it can move on the city if and when it flips - I honestly think it will.
3) Finish Trade, milk Beeri for what he's got for a cease fire.
4) Take Perpentachs city -> cease fire and milk him for what he'd give us.
5) Redeclare on Beeri, finish him off
6) Redeclare on Perpentach, finish him off.
During which pretty much every city should be building just Axes although the new city up north with it's heavy production could alternatively build Catacomb Libralus for the score. Either way is fine.
If that's the path we choose, we should definetly adopt Nationalism. It will increase our unit production by 35%, given that we lose Pacifism at the same time. That would be very welcome to our slow production cities. Also Training Yards will yield one happiness.
Also in a High to Low game, I wouldn't make too many interim peaces. They might come back to bite you.
Also in a High to Low game, I wouldn't make too many interim peaces. They might come back to bite you.
Bill Bisco
Callous Calling
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2007
- Messages
- 590
It looks like my visit with my fiancee is pre-occupying my time. Please skip me for this round. I apologize for the wait!
Agree that Nationalism is better than Pacifism now, was good to get some research done but we want production now. Axes, axes and more axes and some horsemen as well.
Since Brian had to skip a couple of rounds (and he said earlier that he can play on friday), I recommend that we play in this order:
1. Brian Shanahan
2. Ozbenno
3. Jusos2108
4. Brian Shanahan
5. Fleme
6. Bill Bisco
-> Back to normal roster
Everybody okey with it?
1. Brian Shanahan
2. Ozbenno
3. Jusos2108
4. Brian Shanahan
5. Fleme
6. Bill Bisco
-> Back to normal roster
Everybody okey with it?
Brian Shanahan
Permanoob
Ok I can grab this now, sorry for the delay in reply, was over at my cousin's and he had a sick daughter and am just in the door from the bus.
Brian Shanahan
Permanoob
Ok I've played the turnset and it went rather slow. I took no further cities, and actually cease fired with Beeri (on turn 287), due mainly to a very annoying wood golem up in the Northern city, and due to me forgetting 2 movement on Wood Golems lost me a worker.
I bulbed KoTE, researched HBR and Warfare. Trading with Balseraph I also got Festivals, Masony (for KoTE), Earthmother (HBR) and from Auric I got Archery and Sailing for KoTE and HBR. I pulled these trades mostly for the points (even though it is trading with two strong leaders).
Morrtebio (the Dwarf City nearest us) fell to Loki on turn 288, and now he's plaguing our northern city Latito.
On builds Celo completed the GLib, and is now churning out a training yard. All other cities are building axes except for Latito which went monument>warrior(barb defense)>Mage Guild in preparation for the Catacomb and Skarlas which went over to a stable shortly after HBR.
Ithralia is down to 1.7% revolt now mainly because of the garrison I have there (most of my axes basically).
Iwould have gone after Beeri again except he has a genuine stack of doom going around plus a nasty garrison in his current capital Tiaran:
He later showed off Barnaxus for effect. We basically need a bit more, something that will guarantee a 2 turn (max) capture of Tiaran. Going after the Perps is too iffy at the moment due mainly to the lay of the land.
On the last turn I popped the dungeon with the super Axe (hoping for a GP or somewhat) and only got hurt. The XP wont hurt but that was a pretty bad dice roll.
I bulbed KoTE, researched HBR and Warfare. Trading with Balseraph I also got Festivals, Masony (for KoTE), Earthmother (HBR) and from Auric I got Archery and Sailing for KoTE and HBR. I pulled these trades mostly for the points (even though it is trading with two strong leaders).
Morrtebio (the Dwarf City nearest us) fell to Loki on turn 288, and now he's plaguing our northern city Latito.
On builds Celo completed the GLib, and is now churning out a training yard. All other cities are building axes except for Latito which went monument>warrior(barb defense)>Mage Guild in preparation for the Catacomb and Skarlas which went over to a stable shortly after HBR.
Ithralia is down to 1.7% revolt now mainly because of the garrison I have there (most of my axes basically).
Iwould have gone after Beeri again except he has a genuine stack of doom going around plus a nasty garrison in his current capital Tiaran:
Spoiler :
He later showed off Barnaxus for effect. We basically need a bit more, something that will guarantee a 2 turn (max) capture of Tiaran. Going after the Perps is too iffy at the moment due mainly to the lay of the land.
On the last turn I popped the dungeon with the super Axe (hoping for a GP or somewhat) and only got hurt. The XP wont hurt but that was a pretty bad dice roll.
Attachments
OK looks like I'm up, any suggestions as to what we do??
We have to attack someone, Perp or others, that culture situation is pretty dire so maybe Perp should be who we attack??
We have to attack someone, Perp or others, that culture situation is pretty dire so maybe Perp should be who we attack??
Brian Shanahan
Permanoob
I'm thinking Perp is more of a long-term target myself after playing 20 turns, they're about 200 points ahead of us, which means either a significant tech or military lead on us. After playing I'd take out Beeri (which means more military) then go for the Perp.
Fleme
Obey the Kitty!
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2003
- Messages
- 1,205
Looking at the save I make this much out of it: Beeri is down to 1 city. Diplo shows no option to ask for any cities, looks like Loki has been busy. Additionally, that "stack" is 6/9 workers and warriors aren't an issue any more. I do agree that Barnaxus and any Golem following him are a genuine threat and should not be taken lightly.
Furthermore, Perp is WHEOOHRN - most likely on Beeri given how Loki most likely claimed all his outlying cultureless cities.
Last time I saw Perps units they were stock swords (axe equivalent) - meaning he had no access to Copper. Furthermore, referring to my earlier post, whatever city is pressing on Ithralia (Likely Jubilee, his capital), is just due south and on flat land.
Perp is becoming increasingly strong and is, as far as I can see it, on the verge of becoming too strong for us to tackle with the kind of material we have to throw at him and even if we do, he'll at some point advance to a level from which we can't dislodge him. I was hoping a DOW on him in the last turnset and I really don't know what to do with him anymore since when Mimics are up, we're done. There's honestly not a single thing we can do for at least a hundred turns when he fields Mimics. Even lesser units like (lucky) Freaks and Archers would be enough to stop us.
Yeah, take Beeri out. His stack consists of workers and warriors. Sure, we have to sacrifice a few axes to take out Barnaxus and that Wood Golem but again, time is of the essence. Barnaxus becomes stronger every turn and as a result every golem becomes strongers as well. Get rid of Beeri and go from there.
For some longer term tech choices, the Sidar pretty much only have the recon line. I suggest we go there.
Furthermore, Perp is WHEOOHRN - most likely on Beeri given how Loki most likely claimed all his outlying cultureless cities.
Last time I saw Perps units they were stock swords (axe equivalent) - meaning he had no access to Copper. Furthermore, referring to my earlier post, whatever city is pressing on Ithralia (Likely Jubilee, his capital), is just due south and on flat land.
Perp is becoming increasingly strong and is, as far as I can see it, on the verge of becoming too strong for us to tackle with the kind of material we have to throw at him and even if we do, he'll at some point advance to a level from which we can't dislodge him. I was hoping a DOW on him in the last turnset and I really don't know what to do with him anymore since when Mimics are up, we're done. There's honestly not a single thing we can do for at least a hundred turns when he fields Mimics. Even lesser units like (lucky) Freaks and Archers would be enough to stop us.
Yeah, take Beeri out. His stack consists of workers and warriors. Sure, we have to sacrifice a few axes to take out Barnaxus and that Wood Golem but again, time is of the essence. Barnaxus becomes stronger every turn and as a result every golem becomes strongers as well. Get rid of Beeri and go from there.
For some longer term tech choices, the Sidar pretty much only have the recon line. I suggest we go there.
I'm worried about Perp as well, my inclination is to have at him now to at least get some relief, can leave the dwarves for later (although need them to be gone before we switch). If we leave Perp we can't overtake him I think. Thoughts??
Brian Shanahan
Permanoob
I was thinking a quick overthrow of the Dwarves (as they'd likely stab us in the back first chance), and then go after Perps.
Fleme
Obey the Kitty!
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2003
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The thing about Perp is that he is really on the verge of becoming too powerful for our current level of development; He might already be there for all we know since we have very little current knowledge of what he has. Either way, I'm sure no-one here thinks that going on Perp would be smart if he fields Mimics - let alone if those Mimics have Iron Weapons which is a genuine threat since he didn't have Bronze and his empire is, judging by score, large. 7 Strength units that steal promotions, wah.
That said, it's a difficult task to conjure up a plan that would enable us to switch fast because with Beeri down to 1 city we are inevitably facing a war with Perpentach, be it on our initiative or his and we have to prepare for it.
Question is about what we do now? Do we hire scientists and make a desperate run for a tech that might give us the edge or do we stack all our eggs in the axe basket and try to zerg him? I don't think the latter option is viable because there are just so many things that can go wrong now but on the other hand reaching techs that would give us a genuine edge is very tricky.
I'm open to any and all suggestions and I hope we can get the ball rolling once again.
That said, it's a difficult task to conjure up a plan that would enable us to switch fast because with Beeri down to 1 city we are inevitably facing a war with Perpentach, be it on our initiative or his and we have to prepare for it.
Question is about what we do now? Do we hire scientists and make a desperate run for a tech that might give us the edge or do we stack all our eggs in the axe basket and try to zerg him? I don't think the latter option is viable because there are just so many things that can go wrong now but on the other hand reaching techs that would give us a genuine edge is very tricky.
I'm open to any and all suggestions and I hope we can get the ball rolling once again.
Brian Shanahan
Permanoob
Maybe we're being too focused on Perp here. What are the chances of bringing war to the Icy wastes of our former fields? If we took out Auric (or at least crippled him), we would have the production to at least Zerg the Perps later on.
I don't know how realistic it is to do this, but it may be worth considering.
Otherwise I think if we have to go after the madmen we should tech towards it, maybe by farming some of our axes off barbs for the GPs, trying to play to the strengths of our current Civ. We do have over 600 turns left in the game so a longish race won't neccessarily kill us completely.
I don't know how realistic it is to do this, but it may be worth considering.
Otherwise I think if we have to go after the madmen we should tech towards it, maybe by farming some of our axes off barbs for the GPs, trying to play to the strengths of our current Civ. We do have over 600 turns left in the game so a longish race won't neccessarily kill us completely.
