Fall Further 050 Bug Report Thread

[Valkrionn]

I love the new Great Engineer... Mootus Pont.

 

[MrPopov]

in patch 'k' jungle is giving +1 food +1 hammer for the Cualli (to offset the -1 food) while just +1 hammer for the Mazatl.

 

[Vehem]

I love the new Great Engineer... Mootus Pont.

The quote for him from Tarq was a work of genius - it's actually a FfH-appropriate description of the DLL-Load/Save problem.

in patch 'k' jungle is giving +1 food +1 hammer for the Cualli (to offset the -1 food) while just +1 hammer for the Mazatl.

Thanks - will sort it.

 

[stupidnewbie]

This seems pretty obvious, but I haven't seen anything posted about it... ever since patch J, automated work boats will not expand to unused fish resources. The AI also never seems to build work boats in the first place.

 

[WarKirby]

so dont expand, QUOTE]

and then you fall behind in research because you don't have enough commerce from your 1 city.

Then the AI beats you to the religion you wanted to found, etc.

Being forced to not expand is pretty crippling. Someone beat me to Order because of it, and I called that game a write off.

 

[Thunder_Gr]

so dont expand,

and then you fall behind in research because you don't have enough commerce from your 1 city.

Then the AI beats you to the religion you wanted to found, etc.

Being forced to not expand is pretty crippling. Someone beat me to Order because of it, and I called that game a write off.

OK, I don't think this is a real reason. You can always start a new game, if you are not willing to do something different than in most of your games. If you want to always win, pick another difficulty. If you are prepared to do whatever it takes to save a difficult game, then go for it. I do not think complaining about it is helpful in any way or that it makes any difference.

And, please, do not take this personaly. It is something that should be considered by all the people complaining about this sort of things. Complaining for things are bound to happen in less than 50% of your games or for things that are tied to difficulty levels do not really make any sense, IMO.

 

[Vehem]

OK, I don't think this is a real reason. You can always start a new game, if you are not willing to do something different than in most of your games. If you want to always win, pick another difficulty. If you are prepared to do whatever it takes to save a difficult game, then go for it. I do not think complaining about it is helpful in any way or that it makes any difference.

Pretty much my take on things too. If "Event-X" causes you to not be able to play the game the same way you usually do, then "Event-X" is a good thing(tm). The only time it becomes bad is when there genuinely isn't anything you can do to overcome it.

I rarely give up on a game until (a) I spot something I want to change and go off into modding mode instead or (b) I lose the last city. Even a poor early game can be won - it's just a lot harder.

As Thunder said, the difficulty levels are there if you prefer less challenge/to be able to play a specific way. I do use them to try out a specific strategy that I've come up with, then if they work I move them back to normal difficulty (used to be Emperor, though I've had to drop to Monarch since the Demons turned up).

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In the case of "I want that religion", you'll still be able to get it. You get your disciple and spread it as you wish. If it's a case of "I want that Holy City", you'll have to go capture it. If it's "I want that hero" - then you'd better get it built before your rival does - otherwise... the AI beat you to something! (the horror! the shame!)

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All that being said - I'm still undecided whether the spiders are too much of an obstacle or just something you need to deal with. Any Recon unit should be able to see them, so any party sent to hunt them should include a couple of Recons. I did resist the urge to include a 6th variant being a Stealth Spider (INVISIBLE_LAND, rather than INVISIBLE_ANIMAL), so they shouldn't be too hard to spot so long as you're aware they exist.

 

[WarKirby]

All buildings that normally give great commander points instead give neutral GP points, allowing you to fill up your gp bar and then switch to the specialist you want for one turn to pop that type of gp.

I think we need more things that give neutral gpp points, personally.

Can I suggest making the Inspiration spell give neutral, instead of sage GPP ?
Considering mammon is the god of greed, I think it would make sense that one of his spells could be used for great merchants if you choose.

 

[Vehem]

I think we need more things that give neutral gpp points, personally.

Can I suggest making the Inspiration spell give neutral, instead of sage GPP ?
Considering mammon is the god of greed, I think it would make sense that one of his spells could be used for great merchants if you choose.

Right - having just written an essay on balance issues myself - I suggest we all flee the Bug Report thread and find somewhere more appropriate before Xienwolf comes and starts taking names...

 

[Iceciro]

We need a Balance Discussion thread. Don't we have one of those somewhere, but labeled for the old versions?

 

[WarKirby]

Good idea. no moar balance discussion then.

Just bugs:

Started another new jotnar game, this time on patch K. I was previously playing on my jotnar-hacked-into-patch-j version.

1. I'm seeing the same issue with Jotnar being unable to change civics.

2. Egrass got a new model already? When I was playing with him yesterday, he had shiny blue and gold armor, and no weapons or tools. Now he has a more rough look, plus a sword and shield. It looks odd, seeing him dig roads with his sword. And considering that metalworking hasn' been invented yet, I'm thinking he might be best to stay barehanded. If he must have a weapon, it should at least be something more primitive like a club

3. Has there been some change to citizen spawning? Yesterday I was getting more of them than I knew what to do with. But right now, it's turn 54, my capital is size 6, and not a single citizen spawn yet.

4. The jotnar theme music seems to be the Mercurian theme. Is this a bug, or do they just not have a unique theme tune?


Edit, now turn 70. Maxed out capital size, still no citizens. I think it's broken.

 

[WarKirby]

I just invaded the Mazatl with Egrass, and killed one of their shapers.

"You have captured a slave"

Lo and behold, I have.
But I'm not running slavery. Shouldn't it be a worker, or preferably a shaper?

 

[WarKirby]

Jotnar workers don't get the special Giantkin promotions as they age. It worked for Egrass so they're not broken, just not working on workers.

Also, turn 97. I have 3 cities, two of size 8, and one of size 2. And I FINALLY just got my first citizen birth. I think something is really wrong there.

It's worth noting though, that I got a worker on the turn after I took a city from the mazatl. Perhaps capturing a city triggered something.
One turn later, another citizen too.

 

[WarKirby]

2 turns later, another citizen.

I'm definitely convinced that taking a city triggered something.

 

[WarKirby]

Not sure if this is a bug, but making the AI's current research invalid doesn't stop it.
I tried removing mysticism from the Khazad 1 turn before they finished researching Way of the Earthmother, so they wouldn't be able to found RoK so soon. They still did it.

 

[WarKirby]

Egrass doesn't have combat animations, despite his big sword. He just stands up and crouches like workers do.

Is it possible to fix that? I understand he needs worker anims for his worker stuff. Can the two be combined ?

 

[WarKirby]

Probably due to AC's tweaking, Hill Giants no longer have their -50% city strength.

I don't have a problem with this at all, and always thought that was silly. But I felt should report it anyway.

 

[Vehem]

Good idea. no moar balance discussion then.

Just bugs:

Started another new jotnar game, this time on patch K. I was previously playing on my jotnar-hacked-into-patch-j version.

1. I'm seeing the same issue with Jotnar being unable to change civics.

2. Egrass got a new model already? When I was playing with him yesterday, he had shiny blue and gold armor, and no weapons or tools. Now he has a more rough look, plus a sword and shield. It looks odd, seeing him dig roads with his sword. And considering that metalworking hasn' been invented yet, I'm thinking he might be best to stay barehanded. If he must have a weapon, it should at least be something more primitive like a club

3. Has there been some change to citizen spawning? Yesterday I was getting more of them than I knew what to do with. But right now, it's turn 54, my capital is size 6, and not a single citizen spawn yet.

4. The jotnar theme music seems to be the Mercurian theme. Is this a bug, or do they just not have a unique theme tune?


Edit, now turn 70. Maxed out capital size, still no citizens. I think it's broken.

1. Will have to do some digging on that. Sounds like Python though. Might actually be my fault, as I changed something in there to speed up a loop (thinking about it now, I know exactly what I did...)

2. Aye - think I may ditch the shield and switch the sword for a "do-it-all" tool of some description.

3. Nothing that I've done so far as I know - anyone else having the same problem?

4. Will dig up something more suitable.

I just invaded the Mazatl with Egrass, and killed one of their shapers.

"You have captured a slave"

Lo and behold, I have.
But I'm not running slavery. Shouldn't it be a worker, or preferably a shaper?

If I remember correctly you can only ever enslave the lizard workers. Mostly to stop you from capturing shapers.

Jotnar workers don't get the special Giantkin promotions as they age. It worked for Egrass so they're not broken, just not working on workers.

Also, turn 97. I have 3 cities, two of size 8, and one of size 2. And I FINALLY just got my first citizen birth. I think something is really wrong there.

It's worth noting though, that I got a worker on the turn after I took a city from the mazatl. Perhaps capturing a city triggered something.
One turn later, another citizen too.

2 turns later, another citizen.

I'm definitely convinced that taking a city triggered something.

Will see what AC says regarding that.

Not sure if this is a bug, but making the AI's current research invalid doesn't stop it.
I tried removing mysticism from the Khazad 1 turn before they finished researching Way of the Earthmother, so they wouldn't be able to found RoK so soon. They still did it.

Would make sense the other way, but not an urgent issue (messing around with world-builder voids your warranty).

Egrass doesn't have combat animations, despite his big sword. He just stands up and crouches like workers do.

Is it possible to fix that? I understand he needs worker anims for his worker stuff. Can the two be combined ?

If anyone knows of any examples where it is, I'll be glad to use it. I can only associate a single KFM however, so I'd need one that includes worker/combat anims.

Probably due to AC's tweaking, Hill Giants no longer have their -50% city strength.

I don't have a problem with this at all, and always thought that was silly. But I felt should report it anyway.

Will see how it plays out. Might become a balance issue later.

 

[WarKirby]

An oddity.

I killed the mazatl, took both of their cities. And got the "Why save the world for such as you? It is better off ended" death message.

But the Mazatl Tribe remained in the score list. I was still able to talk to them, and make peace with them. I found out why. Right next to their last city, was a Ring of Striking, owned by them. Just lying onto the ground. Moving a troll onto it captured it, even though we were at peace, and the Mazatl death message came up again .This time they finally disappeared.

Require Complete Kills was not enabled.

As far as I can tell, the unit that was carrying it, just dropped dead when the civ died, and the item remained on the ground, somehow reviving them.

I can't think of any simple solution to this, but I can think of a "right" one. I'd say, when a civ dies, their remaining units should become barbarians, instead of just vanishing. That would solve this issue neatly

 

[WarKirby]

If I remember correctly you can only ever enslave the lizard workers. Mostly to stop you from capturing shapers.

The resulting slave was human, too.

Perhaps, the most logical solution, would be to give a lizardman laborer instead. Complete with the actual lizardman graphic, and racial promo. But without their spells.

Will see what AC says regarding that.

The citizen spawning was working fine in the version that AC uploaded the other day, though. This behaviour is different. I'd suggest looking inward for the source of the problem. Perhaps you did something to the python that broke it?