Fall Further - The Original Thread

[Ekolite]

Yeah, also, why do the Cualli have a unique tech? They get labour civics free and there are better civics for them in that group. I think B+S could do with something extra, or possibly be moved into ''compasion''?

 

[Slvynn]

Another note on Archos AI behaviour - he is extremelly agressive and make annoying sudden attacks , even if you have +3 with him, he comes to you over all map with load of brutes, declare war when you were friends, and kills you. Just lost my immortal game as Cualli , dam Daracaat :sniff:

 

[woodelf]

I agree that the lizzies need an early weaker Hero as well.

 

[woodelf]

Another note on Archos AI behaviour - he is extremelly agressive and make annoying sudden attacks , even if you have +3 with him, he comes to you over all map with load of brutes, declare war when you were friends, and kills you. Just lost my immortal game as Cualli , dam Daracaat :sniff:

I love that.

 

[xienwolf]

Catch is if you add another Hero deciding which one needs to die for the Shrine of the Champion or can be Ressurected. Only 1 slot to enter someone in on both of those cases.

 

[woodelf]

Decisions are good. Mine normally die anyhow.

 

[Lord Bayushi]

Seems like an easy choice to me, as the current Heroes were the intended champions of the tribes, they would get the Shrine and Res slots.

 

[xienwolf]

Well, in the case of the Meswaki (whichever one had a sub-par hero because they really don't exalt the single individual), they probably shouldn't even be able to build the Shrine of the Champion.

 

[CMHistory]

I've played games now with both lizzie civs and the Archos, and I get periodic CTD's with both lizzie civs, but not with the Archos (yet). It seems to start up right about the time I get to have my first priest units, and then the game starts crashing either when I create them, or after I hit the change turn button.

Anyone else experiencing this? I have a savegame from my first Cualli game where this happens, I can load it up and hit the change turn button, and I get a CTD everytime, even though I have New Random Seed checked.

 

[Ekolite]

I've just had a CtD in my Archos game, no idea what caused it. It was ~turn 200.

 

[Slvynn]

Another stuff i found - Jungle spread on mountains, and then swamplands being created. This give to Mountains very veyr odd look, - mountain with jungle with flat swampland on peak of it.

 

[CMHistory]

I've also experienced CTD's on map-start. I selected the Luchuirp to play, and no sooner does the map load, but I CTD. I'm really thinking this might be a combination of one or more of the new Civs and the Random Seed generator.

It also seems like the new civs are weighted more heavily for AI selection. I haven't played a game yet without at least three popping up on a Large map.

 

[Vehem]

Yeah, also, why do the Cualli have a unique tech? They get labour civics free and there are better civics for them in that group. I think B+S could do with something extra, or possibly be moved into ''compasion''?

Its main advantage is allowing Slavery from the very start - which gives them a very nice early boost (especially if they develop a good food-base from swamps etc). Switching to a "higher" civic later is pretty much assumed (and is why there is no upkeep for the Blood and Sacrifice - it's an early civic that helps encourage early building/expansion).

Another stuff i found - Jungle spread on mountains, and then swamplands being created. This give to Mountains very veyr odd look, - mountain with jungle with flat swampland on peak of it.

That one is a bit bizarre - though I have a vague idea of what may have caused it. Is the underlying terrain of the mountain "grassland", then later "wetland"? If so, I can solve that one fairly easily and will do so (it blocks wetland spread to hills, though it didn't occur to me that it could spread to peaks as well).

Hmmm... Well even if they do require horses still, I just can't imagine those blantantly WH dinosaurs roaming erebus.

The "horse" ones actually don't look much like "Cold Ones" at all (which is what the WH guys ride) though the Warsaurus is definitely Stegadon-like.

It also seems like the new civs are weighted more heavily for AI selection. I haven't played a game yet without at least three popping up on a Large map.

Nothing's been edited to make it so - though 3 out of 5 isn't too unusual in an 8 or 9 civ game. If there are 9 civs, ~1/5 of them are new (5 out of 26), so just under 2 of them on average should be from the new-guys. 3 would be just slightly above average.

==

Please keep the feedback coming - especially regarding the CtD issue. I'm fairly sure there's just one cause and I'd love to track it down, but thus far haven't been able to. The good (and bad for me) news is that it does not repeat upon loading an autosave. I'm not sure what sort of error is capable of causing that.

I've never seen the "crash on game start" though - I'll investigate that one further.

It will be Monday evening before I'm able to release the initial fixes - so any feedback you can offer by then will help to shape what makes it in.

 

[DuckAndCower]

I'm loving the new civs (I've played as Archos and Mozequ... the good lizards), but I've been getting infrequent CTDs. I've never gotten any with vanilla FfH, so I'm thinking it's caused by Fall Further. Normally, I just load up the autosave and keep playing... definitely worth the cost of the new civs.

However, in my current game I'm crashing every time I hit the end turn button. At first, it crashed when an enemy galley attacked mine. I figured I'd avoid the crash by moving my galley out of range, but that just seems to have made things worse.

I've attached the save file. Fall Further is the only mod mod I'm running. Hopefully you guys can figure it out, but in the meantime, anyone have a suggested workaround? I really don't want to load up the earlier autosave, as a lot has happened in those turns, and I'm afraid I'll just hit the CTD again anyway.

I just had an idea... maybe if I have it change up the random seed, it won't CTD. Anyone have any idea how to change that setting in a game in progress?

Oh, as for other info on the save, it's set to epic speed, huge map, 18 civs. Also, I'm playing as the Mazatle (though I experienced CTDs with the Archos as well).

Just to re-emphasize: with the attached save file, the game should crash whenever you hit the End Turn button. It's not random like the other crashes everyone seems to experience.

Last Edit: I finally figured out a way around the crash... I had that suspicious galley suicidally attack an enemy galley- no crash when I ended my turn. I might try disbanding it tomorrow and see if that does the trick as well, but it seems almost certain that my galley was, for some reason, causing the CTD. Hope this helps.

 

[tiberion02]

I've also started getting random CTDs with the Archos civ near turn 200.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

2. the Cualli world spell does not grant free civilian specialists to captured cities. i captured a couple of barb cities after i cast it and they didnt get the benefit, but my new settled cities did.

Hmm - shouldn't grant them to any city created/captured after it's initially cast. The timing is important for that reason. Are you sure they were added to newly settled cities?

oh, i just checked and newly settled ones dont either my bad, sorry

One last thought: The Agnostic trait limits the access to Hero units of the tribes that have it (All religions offer atleast one, most two). The Grigori are supplimented for this by the Adventurers, but both of the Lizzies still have only one late game hero at their disposal. I would suggest considering giving each an early to mid-game Hero to help balance this out.

YEAH!! more heroes! im thinking a powerful seer for the mazatle and a slave lord for mazatle...

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Regarding the crashes, i played a full game as cualli (well the AC got to 70 theni gave up. hell terrain killed me) i only had 2 CTD the entire game, one at turn 200, andother 100 turns later or so.

 

[Sarisin]

I'm finishing my game with v. 011 despite the frequent CTDs because it is such an interesting game. I'll move to 020 when I finish.

One thing that more than surprised me was when I saw the message "Keelyn has built Karlson." Later, sure enough, I saw him defending a Balserph city.

Now, the Dural were in the game, but were wiped out some time ago coincidently by Keelyn. However, I never have seen a civ build another civ's National Hero. The civilopedia entry doesn't say anything about it being a unique Dural unit.

As I said, I am playing with v. 011, but didn't see anything in this thread about this before or any fixes in subsequent patches.

 

[Ringtailed]

I like the two new lizard civs. Not so hot for the first three, but I think that's because they have no real precedent for inclusion into the FFH world whereas lizards do.

Anyway, I'm curious about whether the lack of extra attack/defense/movement in Deep Jungle for lizardkin is intended or an oversight. It was kind of irritating to me so I changed it in my copy's XML files, but if it was intended for balance I'm going to change it back x_x

edit: well, I *thought* I changed it the promotion says "double movement in deep jungle" but doesn't seem to work. I wonder why...

 

[Lord Bayushi]

The deep jungle feature was looked over in the Lizardkin promotion, it seems. To change it manually, you have to alter the promotion a bit:

Change the \Fall Further\Assets\XML\Units\CIV4PromotionInfos.xml file as follows:
Find the Lizardkin promotion (<Type>PROMOTION_LIZARDMAN</Type>)
and add an addition line to the TerrainDoubleMoves entry for the Deep Jungles (FEATURE_LIZ_JUNGLE) like so...

Spoiler :

<TerrainDoubleMoves>
<TerrainDoubleMove>
<TerrainType>TERRAIN_WETLAND</TerrainType>
<bTerrainDoubleMove>1</bTerrainDoubleMove>
</TerrainDoubleMove>
</TerrainDoubleMoves>
<FeatureDoubleMoves>
<FeatureDoubleMove>
<FeatureType>FEATURE_JUNGLE</FeatureType>
<bFeatureDoubleMove>1</bFeatureDoubleMove>
</FeatureDoubleMove>
<FeatureDoubleMove>
<FeatureType>FEATURE_LIZ_JUNGLE</FeatureType>
<bFeatureDoubleMove>1</bFeatureDoubleMove>
</FeatureDoubleMove>
</FeatureDoubleMoves>

Tested and working. Hope it helps.
Note: In order to have Offensive and Defensive bonuses in Deep Jungle with this promotion, you have to alter those settings as well. Woodsman promotions appear to be working correctly for Deep Jungle, though.

 

[Ekolite]

Oh, I think I forgot to say: When I captured a hippus (human) worker as the Cualli they turned into lizardmen workers.

Also, any chance of a Philosopher unit for the Danmos(name?) I just imagine them as being Philosophers/artists, also it would help seperate them flavourwise from the sidar and amurites.

Also, would you consider letting some other civs build trails instead of roads, just for the flavour of it. I'd say, the elves, the Archos etc.