Fall Further - The Original Thread

[Slvynn]

Just report of observations. Yesterday i played immortal OCC with Cualli AI near me, it was on Creation map by cephalo, and they were closing my acess to rest of world , when i was enclosed by chains of mountains inside of continent.
They were top 1 in ranks, and developed pretty well (they were teching very fast). They built ALOT ALOT of javelin throwers, and used Rangers as main force, and spammed Nature mana all over their empire. Only nature, x3 of it., some adepts and swordsmans, cats.
(went druids? )
Their AI seems be pretty ok, they explored my land with hasting mobility adepts.
But at end they were killed by my dragonkillers/mages pretty easy
(We need fire sphere being nerfed )
I would not stand a chance if i was using another tactics other than form of titan/adv guild/apprentship fire mages.

 

[woodelf]

I had my first CTD, but it was more of a hang than CTD. I'll have to go back and restart, reload an autosave, and then get to that point before posting a save. Vista makes a big deal of these crashes and offers full dumps. They don't offer much info I don't think.

 

[grumpylad]

Really enjoying your modmod, great fun and the new civs fit quite well. I have had two issues
CTD as reported elsewhere starting again makes all of the difference, seems to occur when one of the "new" disc units is made available and/or built first time

Second is the lizard RoK replacement seems not to gain xp like other priests.

Great work, I really appreciate it

 

[woodelf]

Here's my CTD. Hit enter and it crashes. I looked around the Wb and didn't see anything out of the ordinary...

 

[Slvynn]

Civ: Arashan

Leader : Ushas Sinshi,
A: Neutral,
T: Raiders, Charismatic.
Design:
Fierce Warring Feline Nation.
Combine Early China (Kung-Fu) fighter style with swords , Martial Arts with Feline Warloving culture.
Game –wise: strong Metal + Recon lines. There is a sentence “Cat have 9 lives” , and that mean that Cats are good to evade things, as well death. The special tint of Arashans is that All their melee(metal) + assasins have increased (race promo) (20% or more) retreat ratio (some units are bit weak though, like no mithril weapons for champions, swords). With using Flanking 2 promos you can achieve some great retreat ratios , and that change play style to some new, different way, unused be4. Their warriors are fierce, fast and extremelly agile.
So, speed 2 , hi withdraw rate (a-ka Arched Horses) cheap units in metal line.
Also, they are animal (Lions hey) friendly, and their UU champion unit have subdue animal promo.
They are great and Well-known martial arts users, that can be rivaled only by Elohim monks.
Ruled by Warchief, they are not barbaric, but containing some own culture tribe of riders, that all their epos are about heroic acts of their fathers. During age of Magic they were dwelling not far from Lizardmans, and were in constant war with them (they receive –5 diplo with both Lizzie civs)

-5 "You are green slime"


Their symbol is sign , that their legendary hero and warchief from age of magic Ashasa drawed with his (feline) finger on sand, b4 won legendary battle with lizardmans (who were one nation in age of magic) who opressed , enslaved and henocided pra-arashans, while being totally outnumbered. That prevented destruction of pra-arashans, and was a start of glorious rise of arashan nation. The sign resemble freedom, power, selfrighteousness of arashan nation. freedom, power, selfrighteousness are things that almost worshipped by arashan society as undoubted concept of being.
Also, Ying-Yang, Balance stuff as inspiration fits well.
Sure they should have their own adept units for Empyrean, RoK, Leaves. and weight -100 with OO, AV and Order (they are too tyranic religions for them) and full unability to adopt those religions.


Their hero is Shinas, is chosen, and is reincarnation of legenday Ashasa, who will be back to lead Arashan again into a battle in hard hours of Armageddon.He should be hero aviable late in game, somewhere in end of metal path (immortal tech or its pre-req?), and be very strong melee unit with enormous withdraw rate (almost unkillable) (cats are cats ).

also i found this one in net , and i like it : http://www.3dtotal.com/team/interviews/caroline_delen/ether_images/lunba02.jpg

 

[Ekolite]

-5 "You are green slime"

lol

I reloaded my Archos game from a save a while back and I got the CtD again at about turn 217. I have all the FF civs in the game so I don't know if its related to the archos or one of the others.

I will start a new game as archos without any other FF civs and see if you still get CtDs. Also, does anyone know if there's any particular strategy with the archosian spiders? I haven't been able to find a good use for them.

 

[DuckAndCower]

I'd really rather not see cat people in FfH. I don't think there's any precedent for them, they wouldn't fit into the mythology, it would seem too derivative of The Elder Scrolls, and they're just too... well, they make me think of furries.

I guess I don't like the idea of Fall Further turning into a collection of random, disjointed civs that don't really fit with the feel of the game.

The five civs already in place do fit quite nicely, though (except maybe for the dino-mounts of the lizzies).

[quote="Kol.7]Also, does anyone know if there's any particular strategy with the archosian spiders? I haven't been able to find a good use for them.[/quote]

I used them to harass my neighbors' workers and settlers early game. Late game, I used them as cannon fodder to weaken city defenders. Don't be afraid to let them die, since their chance of spawning at the nest depends on how many you control. Fewer spiders alive = greater chance for them to spawn.

EDIT: Dammit, I just got another CTD! The very next turn after the CTD that I managed to work around, it crashes every time I end turn. Here's the file. It's named like it is because I was so happy I managed to get around that first crash... it's like it's toying with me...

One thing I did notice is that this time it takes longer to crash... instead of happening almost as soon as I hit End Turn, it seems to happen directly after one of my city's borders expand.

 

[Slvynn]

I have good strat for spiders, better than mentioned above
1. Try to keep them being strong.
2. Use sometimes with natinality declared when more force needed.
3. Sign alot of Open Borders. Fortify 1 in your capital, and later 1 per city, barb orcs and all open bordes guys will be attacking them.... and die.... At end you will get hi level spider, and rivals will lose their exploring units.
4. Besides a roaming and eating random open porder guy (which you will do 100% rate whn spider have hi lvl) you can alway make fast hit and run back runs by your strong , trained spiders. I used mobility 2 for them, after i have combat 3. At end i was getting combat 5 mob 3 strong spider units. Alwasy try to end turn on hight defended tiles , like citadels / cities. The become your patrol, which eat any "friendly" target pretty fast. DONT LET THEM DIE, level them
5. Major one. The ritual called Nature's Revolt have huge power when used in hands of Archos. HUGE. When you have improved Ranger substititution Recluse, and load of animal units..... well i hope you people know , what Nature Revolt do, are you ?
I built:
Pact of Nillhorn (3 Giants, considered as Animal unit)
Load of hight leveled Giant Spiders, all striong , not strong were cannonfoddered as mentioned in post above.
and then Nature revolt... roamed around with recluses and got:

All giant spiders got + 2 str
Giants +2 str
30+ animals , captured by me , all with +2 str (Bears - 7 st, Lions 5 str)
There is a screenshot above, you can see my spiders have 8 str, and load of promos.
Its a OCC immortal level. (i playing with 1 city limit against AIs on immortal lvl). Which is actually suceed.

I was able to build also Baron, and call Mommy for +2 str stuff, but did it later and they got not such promos - i was hurrying abit, got much of war declares , i will do that next time too


As about of Arashans : well , they not flurries/furries as you say for sure, and i alwasy dreamed about Chm/Rai leader, and actually i inspired from Mrrshan (MOO2) more than Elder Scrolls, (a hate for lizzies is Elders scrolls idea though, but i like it very much )

PS: Mother is incredible city defender Imagine army of Charadon that atack your capital with 25 axes, no cats , each time he attack , he feed mother (and she heals) + new small spider born. He lost all 25 axes in 1 turn .... to Mother, only to her. She is very powerfull, dammit, and i like it.

 

[DuckAndCower]

As about of Arashans : well , they not flurries/furries as you say for sure, and i alwasy dreamed about Chm/Rai leader, and actually i inspired from Mrrshan (MOO2) more than Elder Scrolls, (a hate for lizzies is Elders scrolls idea though, but i like it very much )

Yeah, I guess I'm just rather biased for some reason. Actually, that makes me wonder... is there an easy way to turn off individual civs in Fall Further? I'd like to maybe do this so I can still set AI civs to Random without (possibly) increasing my chances to CTD, but in the future maybe it would be nice in case of a player's strange aversion to certain civs. Something built into the GUI would be nice, but failing that, is there a file to edit that would say "Don't pick these guys as a random civ"?

 

[Slvynn]

I had it only once, and after it i was able to load game and continue playing.
Played OCC with Grigori, fought Cualli

 

[MaxAstro]

Yeah, I guess I'm just rather biased for some reason. Actually, that makes me wonder... is there an easy way to turn off individual civs in Fall Further? I'd like to maybe do this so I can still set AI civs to Random without (possibly) increasing my chances to CTD, but in the future maybe it would be nice in case of a player's strange aversion to certain civs. Something built into the GUI would be nice, but failing that, is there a file to edit that would say "Don't pick these guys as a random civ"?

In the XML file CivilizationInfos.xml, in the Assets/XML/Civilizations folder, each civ has a "Playable" and "AIPlayable" line. Set Playable to 0 to make the civ unselectable by human players, set AIPlayable to 0 to make it unselectable by the AI.

 

[Vehem]

Thanks for posting the save games. I'm back home now and will trawl the three games to see if I can find something in common. For the moment the stability issue is the main concern, though I am still reading the feedback regarding balance etc - so please keep that coming too.

If I manage to find the cause, I'll post a fix straight away as a patch. I'm fairly sure it's graphics related (this style of CtD tends to be), and if so the fix should be simple once the cause is determined.

 

[woodelf]

I think you can safely look at just the lizzies unless you added stuff to the other three in this release. I only had problems when they were in game.

 

[DuckAndCower]

I've started experiencing crashes in a new game with the good lizzies (can't ever remember the name). Using MaxAstro's excellent instructions, I made sure none of the AI players were using Fall Further civs, so it's definitely not related to something the AI's screwing up.

Once again, the map is Huge, Epic, 18 civs. First crash came around turn 373... I only have an autosave, and I'm not sure it's got a reproducable crash, so I won't bother putting it up.

Good luck getting it figured out. I seem to have lost interest in vanilla FfH for some reason...

I think you can safely look at just the lizzies unless you added stuff to the other three in this release. I only had problems when they were in game.

I've actually experienced crashes with the Archos, before lizzies were introduced. I hadn't run into any unavoidable crashes, though, but I didn't play them for very long.

 

[Ringtailed]

okay, question time!

I'm playing Mazatl and running their unique civic... among other things, it says "+50% food and +50% hammers from trade routes" ... what does that mean? I'm not noticing anything...

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

yes, i was thinking about the lost lands civic also, and because trade routes do not normally generate food or hammers at all, giving "+50% food and +50% hammers from trade routes" means you get 50% of 0 hammers which is an extra... 0 hammers! perhaps this civic would be better if you said trade routes give a flat +1 food and flat +1 hammer rather than the modifyer?

 

[Ekolite]

I'm playing a new archos game with no other FF civs in and its past turn 300 - still no crash. I think the crashes are to do with one of the lizzie civs.

 

[frenzyslave]

CTD , good lizzies (Mazatl?), Prince, turn 406, Std terra map, all added civs (except duval who got knocked out) plus a few vanilla others (minus knocked out Balseraphs). CTD occurs when end turn . Ah well...

 

[Vehem]

yes, i was thinking about the lost lands civic also, and because trade routes do not normally generate food or hammers at all, giving "+50% food and +50% hammers from trade routes" means you get 50% of 0 hammers which is an extra... 0 hammers! perhaps this civic would be better if you said trade routes give a flat +1 food and flat +1 hammer rather than the modifyer?

If a trade route is worth 1 commerce, it produces 0.5 food and 0.5 hammer with the civic. This is rounded down so you don't see it. If you can get the trade route to be worth at least 2 commerce (population, Inn's, Taverns, Harbours) then you will start to see a +1 and +1 appear in the trade route window. A lot of profitable trade routes means a lot of bonus food/production. The downside is that you aren't allowed to trade outside your own empire, so it's really about developing your *own* empire to maximize the benefit.

Took me a while to work out how it worked too - but it's quite a nice benefit if you play to develop it. The trade routes have a base value, and the default setting is to produce 100% of this as Commerce, 0% as food and 0% as production. +50% food/hammers just means the setting becomes 100% commerce, 50% food, 50% hammers.

 

[woodelf]

I switched to Lost Lands before I should have once and had to go from 90% to 40% research to make up the cost. Oops.