Fall Further - The Original Thread

[Vehem]

Yeah, the modules for improvements that upgrade flat out fail The lines which are important for upgrade timers and next level of improvement associate numerically instead of with the type they are entered into. Hence any changes to the start of the improvements file will cause problems with those modules.

Vehem, if you could move any changes you made in the ImprovementInfos.xml to the end of the file instead of the beginning that would clear the issue up for anybody who uses the Modular FfH in conjunction with Fall Further. Same issue will happen if you put any promotions which have pre-reqs or combatapplies in the beginning of the PromotionInfos.xml, my modules which have no requirements will overwrite the fields stating that there are requirements

The only problem I have with putting entries at the end of the files is that GIT (version management software) relies on having "static-context" around it to perform the diff's when I update for a new patch. Basically, it needs to be able to find something that exists in both the base-mod, and the FF version in order to re-insert the FF content automatically.

If I move all the entries to a specific place (especially either end of the file), it can have trouble finding enough "context" to work out where the new entries should go (this is actually how the unique unit entries/blocks for different Civilizations got messed up a while back).

I'll have an experiment using only a single-commit for the FF content when the next patch is released - it may be possible to pull it off if all the entries are inserted at the same time (at the moment they're incremental with the changes I made as I went along).

 

[Itambu]

HI All

Trying to install this mod to FfH2 and can't seem to get it to operate. Looking for some advice. I downloaded the modmod file FFH-2030k-FF020 and the patch D. I extracted both using windows unzip. Following the steps as listed at the front I copied and renamed the Fall From Heaven 2030 foulder and called it Fall Further. Then I copy the assets mod there. Windows tells me there are already foulders containing the names of Assets Art Units etc and so I hit replace all (leaves me no other choice yes / yes to all / no / cancel. No and cancel = nothing installs)

I copy the patch assets foulder and again asks to replace all I click yes. (not sure if this is correct as when I look inot the foulders they only contain the new civs and not those in FfH2.

When I to load the mod (now called Fall Further) I get numerous errors and the game wont load. Im not sure what I am doing wrong other than to individually copy all files from within the foulders and into FfH 2 foulders without replacing them.

Yes noob here with mods any help would be appreciated. Somone in this forum mentioned something about the extracting winrar or such. And I extracted the file to my desktop before moving it into Fall Further mod.

Cheers

 

[DuckAndCower]

It seems to me that you did it right. Here's the steps again, though...

1. Make a copy of your FfH folder, rename it to Fall Further.
2. Extract the contents of the Fall Further download into your new Fall Further folder. Pick "Replace All" when prompted.
3. Extract the contents of Patch D to your Fall Further download. Once again, select "Replace All".
4. Start up Fall Further (either by loading the mod through Vanilla BtS or by modifying the FfH shortcut).

Looking at what you've said, though, I have a feeling that maybe your Fall Further download didn't finish or was corrupted. Or maybe the entire FfH folder didn't copy completely. I'd try deleting the new Fall Further folder and starting over.

Also, you didn't happen to run out of disk space, did you?

 

[Vehem]

When I to load the mod (now called Fall Further) I get numerous errors and the game wont load. Im not sure what I am doing wrong other than to individually copy all files from within the foulders and into FfH 2 foulders without replacing them.
Cheers

Can you post what these errors are?

It sounds vaguely as though you may have installed the patch to the FFH-base mod and are trying to load FFH itself rather than FF (which would cause all manner of XML errors). If it's not that, it does sound like you've done things correctly, but the errors may shed some light on what the problem is.

 

[woodelf]

I'm glad you got the CTDs potentially figured out. I haven't had time to play lately so couldn't check the saves.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

Out of curiosity - what was the "mechanic" for it? I'm not finding the programming side of things too tricky on the whole, more the "what should it actually do" when it comes to Morale.

If it's something that works nicely in-game, it'd certainly make for a good side-mod (plus you'd get to use it too ).

Well its been a while since we had moral, but iirc i think there was a new number given to each units basic stats (like strength and movement) which was moral. the moral number was out of 100 i think and it starts at specifi numbers according to what kind of unit it was (for example a goblin would have 20 moral whereas an elf would have 70) the base percentage would then either be affected by what buildings are present in a city they are in or near (ie palace increases moral by x % in area y) or according to what units are near by (ie if a unit of gobblins were lead by Orthus their Moral could be booseted by x%, or if a unit tried to attack Acheron the moral could drop y%) i think war wearynessa also affected moral to an extent, where the longer war wearyness lasts the greater the moral penalty.

if you get something like this working it would also be nice if a units moral increased or decreased according to the number of battles they won, lost (fled) from

Low moral could result in the unit running away from the attacking unit and the attacker getting the choice to chase them and get an additional bonus in attacking them the second time round, orto stand ground. the fleeing unit could have a chance to rally and stop fleeing, to regain their moral. High moral could provide some bonus to strength, first strikes or resistance to fleeing?

i have no idea if any of this would work, its just trying to remember some of the ideas we had before. i know some of it worked, but most of it is theory.

 

[bit_cynical]

When Hell terrain spreads to a horse tile, horses change to nightmares, so is it possible/worthwhile to allow swamp terrain to spread to horse tiles and change them to something more Lizzie appropriate?

"With the land becoming increasingly boggy horses died out, but it became the ideal habitat for the rarely seen 20' gecko"

 

[Ekolite]

Vehem, not sure if you know about this but if you use advanced start you can place swamp ''improvements''. I was lurchip at the time so its likely you can do it with any civ.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

"With the land becoming increasingly boggy horses died out, but it became the ideal habitat for the rarely seen 20' gecko"

i like that idea

On another note, would it be possible to make plains turn into a lizzy terrain too? like Bog or Mire or something? i just had an all plains start as the lizzies, and all plains is crippling for them, if they were changed to provide an extra hammer or something it would be better, but i think it could get wuite unbalanced if we did that ...

 

[Kinjiru]

Interesting modmod. I've been enjoying it for the past couple of days but keep hitting CTDs.

In the linked post, I have a reproducible (from reloading the game on the turn previous to the CTD) example.

I wonder if the offending code is liked to Hidden Nationality? My Giant Spider is likely going to be attacked by the Khazad warrior.

 

[Vehem]

Interesting modmod. I've been enjoying it for the past couple of days but keep hitting CTDs.

In the linked post, I have a reproducible (from reloading the game on the turn previous to the CTD) example.

I wonder if the offending code is liked to Hidden Nationality? My Giant Spider is likely going to be attacked by the Khazad warrior.

The Khazad didn't actually attack - they just sat there (the game didn't CtD either).

Odd as it sounds, but at the moment it's getting a tad annoying that I *don't* crash. I never thought I'd be hoping for a CtD, but I need to see what to fix before I can do anything...

Just to check - do you have any other modifications in game other than Fall Further? We found a few issues relating to FF with Modules based on FfH files.

EDIT: Just as a random thought - can you tell me what options you are using? Not so much the game settings (though feel free to post those too) but the "Graphics" and "Gameplay" (and "Audio" - but I doubt that's relevant). It's been known to have options cause issues before - and it would explain a lot.

Same request goes to anyone else who has posted a save that I've failed to get a CtD from. If there's something in common there, we'd be a step closer to solving it.

 

[frenzyslave]

In the linked post, I have a reproducible (from reloading the game on the turn previous to the CTD) example.

I wonder if the offending code is liked to Hidden Nationality? My Giant Spider is likely going to be attacked by the Khazad warrior.

Same kinda CTD, except im Malakim HN spider (with all fall further civs added) getting jumped on by calabim. reproducable. Was doing well too

 

[Vehem]

Same kinda CTD, except im Malakim HN spider (with all fall further civs added) getting jumped on by calabim. reproducable. Was doing well too

Can you post the game-options for that game (the ones mentioned in the bold part above)?

 

[frenzyslave]

Can you post the game-options for that game (the ones mentioned in the bold part above)?

Prince, Hemispheres, raging barbs, aggressive ai, random seed on reload, wildlands, blessings of amaranthdjkdhjdorother, living world, 12-13 civs

Game: quick combat (attack+defense), show enemy moves, quick moves, advisor popups, wait at endturn, automated leave old improv and forests, english.
Graphics: 1280x1024, 2x anti-aliasing (??), all four graphic catagories are high, detailed city info, full screen, high detail terrain.
Audio: no changes from norm

 

[Kinjiru]

Just as a random thought - can you tell me what options you are using? Not so much the game settings (though feel free to post those too) but the "Graphics" and "Gameplay" (and "Audio" - but I doubt that's relevant). It's been known to have options cause issues before - and it would explain a lot.

My settings were:
- FFH2 .30 patch K (no other FFH mods or anything),
- Blue Marble is installed, but I didn't check the option for "Use Blue Marble Terrain"
- Custom Game
- Creation script map (the one linked early in this thread)
- Huge Map, default number of civs
- The only custom game setting changes were to disable the Time Victory and enable Living World

Game:
- Advisor popups and Sid Help are on, the rest are off

Graphics:
- 1680x1050 rez
- 4x AA
- Graphics Level, Render, Globe and Movie Quality all at High
- Opening Menu - Civ 4
- Detailed City Info is on
- High Detail Terrain is on


Audio -
- Enable voice chat is off

Other-
- Clock is on


Any other settings you need to know?

Oh, I was actually able to continue by loading an auto save from a couple turns back. I've played an additional 40 turns or so with no further CTDs.

 

[Falc]

Been playing as Chislev and I can still build Scouts and Hunters even though I've teched up to Rangers by now...

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

ive just played another game as Mazatl (on Creation map, jungle start, blessings of amalthon, wildlands, living world, compact enforced). and i think they ARE actually quite overpowered by their swamps. all of my cities were between 20-35 pop, my science production by turn 200 was well over 1000 beakers / turn, by turn 500 i have finished researching every tech in the tree. i have vassalized more than half the civs on the map, because my points are more than 10 times theirs, i have built every wonder(!).

this kind of lead is usually unheard of in my games because im definately not the best civ player in the world, so i came to the conclusion that it must be the civ that did it.
in all honesty that game was my most enjoyable game yet (even though it isnt finished) but i seriously think the swamp bonuses needs to be toned down significantly, or made to spread slower (i remember i complained about it spreading too slow before, but now ive changed my mind again )

i went through the entire game without a glitch or error. nothing odd cropped up and everything was just DANDY! now get to work on those Villafar Vehem (just kidding, i want to play with my favourite lizzies some more before you bring out anothe favourit civ )

 

[Psykoyul]

I played two games as Mazatl and two games as Cualli.

I'm beginning to think that Mazatl are a bit overpowered, but I don't think that it comes from the Swamp's bonuses, because Cualli on its side is really underpowered.

ATM, I don't have any good idea to balance those two civs, but maybe add a trait for Cualli and changing the Financial trait for Mazatl would be a good idea.

 

[Demus]

Financial could have something to do with it, or simply the lost land civic (which is basically a GoN with additional commerce instead of health). Maibe tuning down lost land to 0.5 happiness per tile?

Btw Psychic, what's the strat you're using? Swamps on flatlands, mines on hills, rush tracking, then temples?

 

[Ekolite]

I think the overpowerednes is definately coming from the lost lands civic - the happiness bonus should be lower definately. Also to balance I'd increase the bonuses from the blood + sacrifice civic. Give them extra gold or something.