Fall Further - The Original Thread
- Thread starter Vehem
- Start date
RogueThunder
Warlord
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2007
- Messages
- 173
Oi. Awsome mod. Found a little bit of an issue/bug though.
Turn 0, every jungle seems to be a deep jungle in the world?...?...?... But this goes away turn 1?... O.o... I imagine this could be messing with the computer(well, non lizardman computers) a fair bit depening how they place cities... I mean, they place them bad enough already... o.O
Heres some screenies for those who... Wish to see. O.o...
Turn 0
Turn 1
Turn 0, every jungle seems to be a deep jungle in the world?...?...?... But this goes away turn 1?... O.o... I imagine this could be messing with the computer(well, non lizardman computers) a fair bit depening how they place cities... I mean, they place them bad enough already... o.O
Heres some screenies for those who... Wish to see. O.o...
Turn 0
Turn 1
CyberRoadRunner
Chieftain
I notice you have slightly modified cephalo's creation mapscript but which version of the mapscript is it?
Vehem
Modmod Monkey
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2005
- Messages
- 3,219
Oi. Awsome mod. Found a little bit of an issue/bug though.
Turn 0, every jungle seems to be a deep jungle in the world?...?...?... But this goes away turn 1?... O.o... I imagine this could be messing with the computer(well, non lizardman computers) a fair bit depening how they place cities... I mean, they place them bad enough already... o.O
Heres some screenies for those who... Wish to see. O.o...
Turn 0
Turn 1
It won't be every jungle, but some mapscripts look through every terrain type/feature-type and spawn a little bit of everything, so some will be deep. These revert back to whatever form they should be after the first turn.
Ideally they'd be considered invalid for the MapScripts, in the same way that Fallout seems to be, but I'm not sure if that is set somewhere in the FeatureInfo or in the Mapscript itself.
EDIT: I've asked Kael how he managed it. I suspect I've just missed something fairly straightforward.
EDIT2: Kael pointed me in the right direction (thanks) but it's not as straightforward as I would have liked. The jungles are being spawned by the "Normalize" function - which will spawn any feature that (a) does not provide negative food and (b) does provide at least 1 hammer in an attempt to "improve" the area. That leaves the options of (a) coding an additional XML tag ("ignore this when normalizing") into the FeatureInfos - which is DLL work and a fair bit of it [the option Kael used for Hell Terrain] (b) reduce the food available from deep jungle as with normal jungle (c) let it be.
CyberRoadRunner said:
Version 1.04 - which was the most recent at the time.
Just wondering, why can't the Cualli get slaves in any way what so ever? It makes thematical sense for them to use both Blood & Sacrifice, and Slavery. However, they can only use one. Would it make sense to move B&S to Compassion?
Vehem
Modmod Monkey
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2005
- Messages
- 3,219
True, though Blood and Sacrifice includes "Slavery" as part of it. They don't "trade slaves" as such, just force them to work until they die of exhaustion (pop-rushing). There's not really any reason for the soldiers to go out and capture slaves (as they can't profit themselves by selling them) or at least if they do, you can be sure that they won't give them to Kolsehvahn - they'd rather keep them for themselves.
A little tenuous I know, but in truth the Cualli are designed to alternate between "Blood and Sacrifice" and "Military State" (this is the main reason that Cold Blooded grants free upkeep for Labor civics - Military State can be a real gold-drain without it). Slavery does fit thematically, but the Cualli take it in a different direction.
As for the undercouncil slaves - I posted my opinion on how powerful they are elsewhere. I modded out the ability for any slave to hurry buildings for my own version - but I don't want to tread on that territory with this mod. FF is for extra content, with minimal impact on existing mechanics.
It might do a little *too* well with the Chislev and the Mazatl if I'm honest, though the Mazatl have calmed down a bit since I added the partial feature happiness to the DLL (0.5 happy per Jungle). Still - I have seen games where the Chislev don't do too well (they once expanded quickly, declared war on the Archos and got thrashed all the way back to only their second city remaining before capitulating). I do love Daracaat when he gets in a bad mood
Psychic_Llamas
Wizard in the Making
in my last game chislev had the largest empire by far, and they were ALWAYS (seriously) at war with someone somewhere. the poor mazatl had been wiped out by the chislev fairly early and cassiel is almost there too. im sure glad im on the opposite side of the world, with ocean and mountains sepparating me (on creation map script)
Psychic_Llamas
Wizard in the Making
goin' montezuma style
....
It might do a little *too* well with the Chislev and the Mazatl if I'm honest, though the Mazatl have calmed down a bit since I added the partial feature happiness to the DLL (0.5 happy per Jungle). Still - I have seen games where the Chislev don't do too well (they once expanded quickly, declared war on the Archos and got thrashed all the way back to only their second city remaining before capitulating). I do love Daracaat when he gets in a bad mood
hey, what do you think is the reason they do so well?
are they doing better than FfH II civs?
If so, do you think you can check with Kael about some tweaks on AI or settings or whatever, to improve Civ behaviour of FfHs regular civs?
the reason the mazatl do well is obvious: their swamps are incredible (swamp + hidden lands with +1 happiness was loads better than FoL + GoN with elves, and it's still a bit better with the nerf). 5 food, 1 hammer and 3 commerce per tile, added with +0,5 happiness and +0,5 health is practically unbeatable. Their religious units aren't 2 bad eighter, even though with the recent change in the magic system they've split up into a battle healer (stoneskin etc.) and a supporting unit.
Haven't played the Chislev as much, so i wouldn't know if it's the civ or the AI that's winning their wars.
Haven't played the Chislev as much, so i wouldn't know if it's the civ or the AI that's winning their wars.
I need to play them myself, but it appears that they don't suffer as much from the poor choices the AI is prone to make during wartime once they can adopt Tribal Law. How many times have you seen a civ conquer another nation only to trash it's economy in the process? The Chislev suffer less economically from warfare.
I'm not sure it will be as big an advantage for a human player who can better manage a wartime economy with the other civs, but like I said I need to try them out myself.
I'm not sure it will be as big an advantage for a human player who can better manage a wartime economy with the other civs, but like I said I need to try them out myself.
Vehem
Modmod Monkey
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2005
- Messages
- 3,219
Daracaat is just more aggressive in his settings - and it seems to work for him. The Chislev seem to minimize the areas the AI struggles with (maintaining economy during a war of conquest). The Mazatl could probably do with another small reduction in their economy potential, but not sure what to do there yet. They do generally manage to tech up quickly - which again, the AI doesn't always prioritize as much as it could.
i still think the swamps need -1 food somewhere along the line, maybe remove the bonus at tracking? The only problem with this is the cuatli needing somewhat of a boost to counter their loss of food.
Another option would be tuning down their temples a bit.
Another option would be tuning down their temples a bit.
Vehem
Modmod Monkey
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2005
- Messages
- 3,219
I agree that food is the key thing really. I might actually do exactly that (remove the tracking bonus) and give the Cualli a "1.5 food per population" on Blood and Sacrifice (helps them generate a population worth whipping - plus they're probably not concerned too much with feeding the slaves anyway). I recently modded fractional food-consumption values into a DLL for a different project, so it shouldn't be hard to port that code over.
In case anyone was wondering what exactly I mean by "1.5 food", it's the floor of the decimal value given by 1.5*Population. Or you can just look at the table and you'll get the idea.
Code:
Population 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Food Consumed
StW 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
B&S 1 3 4 6 7 9 10 12
Normal 2 4 6 8 10 12 14 16scaramouche
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2007
- Messages
- 64
Maybe I'm doing something wrong but somehow I have never ever seen any swamps in Fall Further. I'm using the creation map script and playing as the lizards - and I'm often in jungles. Do swamps just show up naturally or do I need to do something to get them to happen? Sorry about the stupid question!
