Fall Further - The Original Thread

[Psychic_Llamas]

Hey Vehem

ive been looking back over your civs, and id like to use you chislev mechanics as well as the mazatl mechanics in Warhammer. i think the chislev stuff fits the chaos civs perfectly. if its ok with you that is

also ive finished my mod mod, and am trying to upload it, (have been for 3 days) but it crashes each time it nears the end. (503MB) ill try uploading in 2 sepparate files next...

 

[Bitwise]

Playing as the Svartalfar yesterday Guardian of Nature was giving me ~300 happiness in all my cities. Not that it didn't help, but I think maybe the changes for the Lizards may have messed up the civic for everyone.

 

[Vehem]

Hey Vehem

ive been looking back over your civs, and id like to use you chislev mechanics as well as the mazatl mechanics in Warhammer. i think the chislev stuff fits the chaos civs perfectly. if its ok with you that is

Feel free to help yourself to anything in it that you want. Do you still want me to try to integrate the Jungle mechanics into the mod once you get an updated version or are you ok doing that yourself now?

 

[Grunthex]

Go figure. My first game of FF results in my first ever FFH game that I finished. Had my choice of victory conditions, elected for the thematically appropriate (kinda) Altar victory with the Mazatl.

Final thoughts on them:

The Order of the Wyverns -50% war weariness is incredibly powerful. You're right near Bannor Crusade territory, from a no-competition wonder. For comparison, Pillar of Chains is -10%, with side effects. I think this would still be excellent at -25%.

The Mazatl are agnostic, but while the Grigori specifically have temples/religious units disabled in vanilla I think, they can build them all, allowing them to spread all the religions to their cities, and more importantly given their incredible Great People synergy (huge cities), lets them fit in 4-5 more priests per city. I think all non-lizard priests/temples should be blocked.

I think in 0.31, Kael allowed priests to promote to Paladins/Eidolons. Since the lizard priests don't have a high-priest equivalency, it seems fair that they could promote to Paladins (Mazatl) and Eidolons (Cualli).

The hero was perfect. No hero trait for free xp, but enough strength he didn't need it, and the movement to go kill things easily. And yet he comes late enough to not overpower everything early.

Overall I thoroughly enjoyed the game, and the total differentness of the swamp mechanics. And bonus points to whoever designed the lizard mage-line, they were great (as were most of the units, but those really caught my eye)

Oh and one other thing I noticed late after conquering the Cualli -- you can't build a city on swamp (though at least your patch will allow me to scorch that away in the future)

More thumbs up Vehem -- think I'll go try a spider-game now, see how they work out!

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

Feel free to help yourself to anything in it that you want. Do you still want me to try to integrate the Jungle mechanics into the mod once you get an updated version or are you ok doing that yourself now?

awsome and i would hugely appreciate it if you could still help with the swamp/jungle mechanics ill pm you when its uploaded

 

[Vehem]

Playing as the Svartalfar yesterday Guardian of Nature was giving me ~300 happiness in all my cities. Not that it didn't help, but I think maybe the changes for the Lizards may have messed up the civic for everyone.

Have you got a save game of that? I've just tried it out and got +15 Happiness for a city with full Ancient forest.

It actually sounds exactly like what would happen if you had the XML, but not the correct DLL. Is it the FF DLL that you're using or have you replaced it?

awsome and i would hugely appreciate it if you could still help with the swamp/jungle mechanics ill pm you when its uploaded

No problem - it actually got reworked in the 031 transition a little (Kael moved a lot of the doMapTurn() code around so I just moved the LizardJungle stuff into it's own function) - and so it's quite a bit easier to extract it from the rest of the code now.

 

[Vehem]

Final thoughts on them:

The Order of the Wyverns -50% war weariness is incredibly powerful. You're right near Bannor Crusade territory, from a no-competition wonder. For comparison, Pillar of Chains is -10%, with side effects. I think this would still be excellent at -25%.

Worth a look - my main concern with OoW was always the possible length of the Golden Ages - I must admit I never really looked too carefully at the relative strength of the WW reduction.

The Mazatl are agnostic, but while the Grigori specifically have temples/religious units disabled in vanilla I think, they can build them all, allowing them to spread all the religions to their cities, and more importantly given their incredible Great People synergy (huge cities), lets them fit in 4-5 more priests per city. I think all non-lizard priests/temples should be blocked.

They should be aye - and if I recall they were in the 020 release. If so, it's a transition issue from the 031 switch and easy enough to fix. If not - I'm just going senile and forgot to block them in the first place.

I think in 0.31, Kael allowed priests to promote to Paladins/Eidolons. Since the lizard priests don't have a high-priest equivalency, it seems fair that they could promote to Paladins (Mazatl) and Eidolons (Cualli).

The Cualli Shadow Priests are arguably more useful than the Eidolons (invisible, marksman divine-ish-casters), though I can see the argument for Mazatl Paladins. I'd love to have some artwork to go with it if I go that way though.

The hero was perfect. No hero trait for free xp, but enough strength he didn't need it, and the movement to go kill things easily. And yet he comes late enough to not overpower everything early.

I quite like him myself - even more so since Winddelay reworked the mesh to make him a true Wyvern - and he even reskinned it to make it look like the 'pedia art too (which he also found).

Overall I thoroughly enjoyed the game, and the total differentness of the swamp mechanics. And bonus points to whoever designed the lizard mage-line, they were great (as were most of the units, but those really caught my eye)

Yay - bonus points for me (kinda). The Liz-wiz line is really just a hack job of the original Lizard Druid staff (from C.Roland) with the new lizards that Woodelf, Winddelay and Darque made for Dragonia II. All I did was grab the pieces of each nif file that were needed and put them together to make the "skull-staff" for each rank. The Arch-mage bone-helmet is actually the head from C.Roland's lizard (as it looks more Draconic) with a bone reskin.

Oh and one other thing I noticed late after conquering the Cualli -- you can't build a city on swamp (though at least your patch will allow me to scorch that away in the future)

Aye - it'd probably sink If I remember rightly, you can't create a swamp on a city tile either. It's an intended part of the mechanic to make lizard-lands more of a pain in the backside for other races to deal with. Partially to boost the usefulness of Scorch - though Kael also did that in 031.

More thumbs up Vehem -- think I'll go try a spider-game now, see how they work out!

Glad you enjoyed them - I'm a big fan of the Archos myself - though if I were you I'd make a few notes of the tactics people have mentioned in the last couple of pages for them. Their play style is a little different...

 

[Rothos]

Seems alright, no problems after that first Dural CtD. Maybe it was just a fluke?

 

[BeefontheBone]

Aye - it'd probably sink

Or burn down, fall over and THEN sink into the swamp

 

[Calbrenar]

Or burn down, fall over and THEN sink into the swamp

The fourth one would stay up though.

 

[Vehem]

Or burn down, fall over and THEN sink into the swamp

I really need to find some 'pedia entry somewhere for that one

Already got a few Python quotes in FF - one more can't hurt (much).

 

[xienwolf]

What... Is the Capitol of Asiria?

 

[Bitwise]

Have you got a save game of that? I've just tried it out and got +15 Happiness for a city with full Ancient forest.

It actually sounds exactly like what would happen if you had the XML, but not the correct DLL. Is it the FF DLL that you're using or have you replaced it?

Ah, of course, that's it. I was playing with the alignment options mod that replaces the dll if I'm not mistaken. That must be causing it.

 

[Dogfax]

so are you and Kael going to bang your heads together and merge this mod into the next release?? Seems that this runs so well with it that it would make sense.

Only one small prob I have noticed.. it seems to me that you can wander into others teritory without an open border treaty? anyone else notice this?

Any plans for any more units?? I particually like the tough barbarian units that are spawning now. Any plans for some more barbarian heros??

 

[Vehem]

so are you and Kael going to bang your heads together and merge this mod into the next release?? Seems that this runs so well with it that it would make sense.

Any part of this mod can be used by anyone for any purpose, so if Kael wanted it he's more than welcome to it. I suspect he's still working to the master plan laid out long ago in the design document though. He once said that a new civ would be "a hard sell" even for a team member - so 5 new civs are probably out of the question

 

[Dogfax]

Any part of this mod can be used by anyone for any purpose, so if Kael wanted it he's more than welcome to it. I suspect he's still working to the master plan laid out long ago in the design document though. He once said that a new civ would be "a hard sell" even for a team member - so 5 new civs are probably out of the question

well just call it evolution then... I think we are all agreed that the more the merrier.. having loads more civs is a good thing.

Keep em coming!

 

[Demus]

more civs are good only if they're both balanced, and fit with the theme of FFH. It's tough to think up new original civs that fit with those rules

 

[woodelf]

The 21 civs are fairly hardcoded in Kael's brain. This is a nice add-on for those of us who have played so much FfH that we need new blood. I'm sure some of Vehem's work has made it's way to Kael, but these civs won't be in the main game.

 

[CMHistory]

I've been experiencing a CTD on game start ever since I installed FF for .031 and the patch. The symptom and timing as reviewed in Kael's .031 Bug List thread suggests that this is a failure to have BTS 3.13 installed (which I have had for quite a while). I went back in, deleted the FFH .031 mod folder in my BTS directory, reinstalled BTS 3.13 and reinstalled FFH .031...and I'm still getting the CTD on game start. Please be advised that I can load a game I had previously just fine...I just can't start any new games without the CTD. The only thing I can think of is that your patch might have altered a core BTS file? Any suggestions for getting up and running again?

 

[Vehem]

I've been experiencing a CTD on game start ever since I installed FF for .031 and the patch. The symptom and timing as reviewed in Kael's .031 Bug List thread suggests that this is a failure to have BTS 3.13 installed (which I have had for quite a while). I went back in, deleted the FFH .031 mod folder in my BTS directory, reinstalled BTS 3.13 and reinstalled FFH .031...and I'm still getting the CTD on game start. Please be advised that I can load a game I had previously just fine...I just can't start any new games without the CTD. The only thing I can think of is that your patch might have altered a core BTS file? Any suggestions for getting up and running again?

The patch (and the ModMod as a whole) is just a zip file, so it can only alter files in the directory that you put it in - there's no installer there that is able to put files anywhere else. If I'm understanding right, you're able to load the mod (and see the main menu screen), but have problems when starting a game.

Do you get as far as the "Finishing" prompt at the end of map generation? Crashes at that point are generally related to graphics issues (failure to find an ArtDefine for something or similar).

If it's crashing before that point, you're normally looking at a DLL or other resource issue.

==

That being said - the ArtDefines/DLL for FfH and FF should both be fine, so it's looking more likely that there's been a faulty install of one or the other, possibly overwriting BtS assets. This can only really happen if you extracted FF in the wrong place, or gave FfH a wrong path (even then it seems unlikely) - and as it sounds like you know what you're doing from your post, that is probably not the case either.

==

Do you have a problem starting BtS games as well as Fall from Heaven based ones? That'd be a good indication of whether any BtS files have a problem.

==

The surefire way to resolve it (albeit not exactly quickly) is to Uninstall/Reinstall. You can probably get away with just doing BtS, and leaving your Civ4/Warlords installs intact. Sorry I can't really be much more help, but it's not an easy problem to remote diagnose. All I can say really is that short of having copied the FF Assets folder over the BtS assets instead of the FfH assets, I can't see how FF could have caused this sort of problem.