Fall Further - The Original Thread

[Jean Elcard]

In truth, Grey Fox originally had it as Red->Blue->Yellow but I changed it (purely aesthetic reasons - preferred the other way round). If you wanted to turn it around, the easiest way would be to grab a copy of his download and then put the AlignmentMeter DDS in the relevant place.

Ok, thanks for the explanation. I know it's more or less nitpicking and I understand your aesthetic reasons, but I would actually prefer a more consistent approach using the known indicator colours. Something like "Red->Grey->Yellow. May help people to better understand the meaning of the bar more intuitively.

 

[xienwolf]

Or just change the colors of the alignment displays on the scoreboard to match the indicator.

 

[MaxAstro]

In our mp game Meditation Halls construction queue add caused OSS.

Are you sure everyone has the right version of Patch A? If some of your games think Mediatation Halls require Priesthood and some think they require Philosophy, and you have one tech but not the other, that could in theory cause the OoS.

 

[Slvynn]

Well some report, i played bit more... I can surely say that Kahd is very potent, strong civ. If played right they are very powerfull. They balanced however, because have really serious set of weaknesses. Very favour play )

Strats i forged during few quick (Oghma path only) games:

Ogma path - alot of cities, REX even, Cottage spam, Industry, Gates. Boosted resereach. Alot of summons, metamagic affinity. Gnostlings as rangers, Huge army of Followers at start, later with hard hitting Advisors. Alot of fighting using followers (direct combat). Thades haste, dance of blades, courage ( i disband less worthy thades waiting for better ones, and they spawn fast). Making, promoting and then dispelling different nodes. Best manas to use: Earth (Stoneskinn), Death (army of sceletors, Wraiths, Lichdom later) Fire (Forest burn and fireballs), Air (Maelstrom) , Law (o mighty Valor) for offence ; Earth, Mind for defence followers. Kahd advance depends of starting spells. Domination, metamagic node spam later, Djinns as summons if enough nodes, Air elementals if not enough nodes for Djinn.

 

[Slvynn]

Also : here is screenshot:
i dont know what you dont like in gates but working properly - here is result. Dont tell me that THAT GNOSTLING stack sucks.
All str 5 units with crazy speed of xp gain.



thades are chosen ones, mostly teleport scouts, hasters, charmers.
Faollowers comabt 3-5 stoneskin (earth 2) and malestrom (air 2) casters.

This is immortal level all options enabled except tech trading game. this stack going to kill , and alot.

Now update: check that, as you see it very few = 12 (!!!) turns later .

Compare 2 pictures. Same 5 str gnoslings stack but with combat 4-5.

IMO we should to be carefull and not to make Kahdi too overpowered. They are already are very very potent.

Btw, ~60 of my 219 tech i getting from city garnisoning follower casting insporation. 4 beakers X 30% boni from Repr and +20 from Scholarship = 6 X 10 cities = 60 beakers, more than 1/4 of my beakers output. This is powerfull too. And very refreshing tactic btw .

I ensure you that Kahdi already pretty ok, and need not much of tweaking. As using alot of sage buildings and scholarship soon , and great lib, most science come from sages/buildings/inspiration . as you sewe on that screenshot - i have my sci at 0% and have still 219 beakers per turn. that mean gambling houses add +10 happiness in city they being built.

They rock without religion and heroes. The stuff they posess is already powerfull and enough to kill stuff around . I cant imagine amounts of units in this stack once i resereach Strenght of will and build Rites of Oghma. 30 strenght ~8 combat 5 promoted units? thats already too much and such army ( str 8 combat 4 gnostlings) can wipe alot on its way.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

i dont think the change from ambitious to spiritual is very fitting for Khadi going Ogham... spiritual is THE MOST useless trait as a civ that cannot adopt a religion, and one that gets no UU priests... id chage it to regular arcane /summoning. or even philosophy.

about other gate creatures:

how about a Rakshasa (LINK)

 

[Slvynn]

i dont think the change from ambitious to spiritual is very fitting for Khadi going Ogham... spiritual is THE MOST useless trait as a civ that cannot adopt a religion, and one that gets no UU priests... id chage it to regular arcane /summoning. or even philosophy.

about other gate creatures:

how about a Rakshasa (LINK)

As i tested, atm i have opinnion that nothing should be added, though you have very strong point about Spiritual trait. I think with Ogma he should become "Charismatic" instead.

EDIT: changed opinion after further playing/testing. Should keep as it is.

 

[MaxAstro]

Knowing that Gnoslings have Metamagic affinity does wonders to improve my opinion of them, and makes the Gates much less underpowered. Mostly now I'd just like to see a bit more diversity from the gates; just two or so new creatures (especially something that excells at city defense) would make things a lot more interesting.

 

[Daijin]

Umm..where is the explore dungeon option? its getting irritating to have constantly spawning skeleton lairs.

 

[Slvynn]

Btw found bug - When Oghma path is chosen new gnostlings not getting "Strong" promotion.

My recipe for city defence : Follower earth 2 air 2 mind 2 combat 2. Make walls, Make inspiration in city, stoneskin and can charm. Just 1 unit inside ur empire per city and u fixed.

 

[Vehem]

Umm..where is the explore dungeon option? its getting irritating to have constantly spawning skeleton lairs.

Check here (also linked from the first page - I've made it bold now). Should only be an issue if installing over an old version, as I corrected an earlier mistake (but can't delete a file that already exists using a patch).

i dont think the change from ambitious to spiritual is very fitting for Khadi going Ogham... spiritual is THE MOST useless trait as a civ that cannot adopt a religion, and one that gets no UU priests... id chage it to regular arcane /summoning. or even philosophy.

It's actually deliberately weaker for balancing reasons and appropriate flavourwise. Ambition can be considered the desire to further oneself materialistically - a better position in society, more possessions greater power. Spiritualism is the "other way" - still concerned with furthering oneself, but on a personal and more intangible level. It also represents the fact that Kahd is stepping back from the Kadhi being all about him (driven by his traits).

They still maintain the strong Arcane trait (strong for their theme at least) - plus their "summons" are generally permanent through the vault gates and I'd like to keep the number of summoning leaders limited as that is their major "feature" (it's definitely Keelyn's, though creative is very nice too) - doesn't seem right to tag it on without a solid reason.

 

[Slvynn]

Check here (also linked from the first page - I've made it bold now). Should only be an issue if installing over an old version, as I corrected an earlier mistake (but can't delete a file that already exists using a patch).




It's actually deliberately weaker for balancing reasons and appropriate flavourwise. Ambition can be considered the desire to further oneself materialistically - a better position in society, more possessions greater power. Spiritualism is the "other way" - still concerned with furthering oneself, but on a personal and more intangible level. It also represents the fact that Kahd is stepping back from the Kadhi being all about him (driven by his traits).

They still maintain the strong Arcane trait (strong for their theme at least) - plus their "summons" are generally permanent through the vault gates and I'd like to keep the number of summoning leaders limited as that is their major "feature" (it's definitely Keelyn's, though creative is very nice too) - doesn't seem right to tag it on without a solid reason.

Quite right i think.......Oghma Kahdi are very powerfull (quite alot - advanced further in my game - loads of gate creatures, woah nice army (Also try nature mana with Gnoslings , Poison Blade, +1 str ) somewhat of magic bannor with tons of "free" good units) (didnt played Mammon yet). If "Strong" promotions will work as it should be with Enlightment, Kahdi need some drawback, being adjusted down abit. And spiritual is kinda flavour wise.
What i thin kthat we need to add more 1 type of creature and it should appear only for Oghma Kahdi. And it should be disciple (and benefit from spiritual trait with mobility free promo). May be some Oghma Angels or such....

Guessing about Mammon - more money, more Folowers, Liches-dominators, stack capable of performing 20 (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) dominations per turn in best case (Mind 3 enchantment 3 for liches, advisors and kahd. Add here 2 psions.) huge army of fireballing/maelstroming/blinding followers, that can kill by their own and boost their xp via ambitious trait. Dont build much gates then.
May be psions need to start with command 3 to balance and compete with Oghma path.

Best way to get hapiness: fast tech via sages and buildings and inspiration. Remove tech slider to 20% and will be enough. That make +8 hapiness for Gambling house, add here Public baths, and few minor mood buildings. If you have nice production you will sucess, likely. (Yah production is kinda important, esp if you go Oghma way)

No need tweaking. They ARE strong. As they are. Only need some nice disciple unit from gates ........

 

[Slvynn]

Knowing that Gnoslings have Metamagic affinity does wonders to improve my opinion of them, and makes the Gates much less underpowered. Mostly now I'd just like to see a bit more diversity from the gates; just two or so new creatures (especially something that excells at city defense) would make things a lot more interesting.

Earth + Mind + combat (+air) followers are perfect defence:
list of promos for city defence follower (by priority):

mind 2 (charm , inspiration - +4 beakers per city (before Repository/civics boni)
earth 2 (stone wall for city, stoneskin - greatly improves combat perfomance of follower)
Air 2 - optional - maelstrom incoming threat
combat 3-5


About Oghma path disciple gate creature - servants of Oghma, Priests in serve of her from Vault.
Sadvu. (Sahdvu, Sahvud)

Str 5. Can teleport (like thades). Can get command proms and CD 1 (like priests) as well as inquisition. Cast Cure Desease and Courage. Require Priesthood and access to spirit mana. Can teleport like thades. chance to get those somewhat like chances for Djinni. Start with Mobility. (can get mobility 2, starting move = 1).
White body, white robes, Light blue ornaments.

 

[Vehem]

Following a particularly frustrating game in which I had to explain that the "Armageddon counter is *not* broken - it just doesn't run from 0 to 100 in every game" (the game itself was fine - but given that I was playing Hyborem in an AC war against a human Bannor player who didn't quite "get it" - frustrating, but almost hilarious by the end) I looked at it again.

Working on the principal that "more information is good" and the fact that I kinda miss the Fire-era Armageddon counter, I implemented the following.

The screenshot shows 10 Rosiers (actually only 5, but there are 10 in the stack), adding +2 to the Armageddon Counter each.

The bottom right corner (which is where the AC is currently displayed now shows the "Raw Armageddon Counter" - in this case 20 out of 155, which is correct for 10 x +2 from Rosier.

The top left corner (where the old Fire-Era counter was) now shows the percentage value, which is used to trigger events. In this case, it's showing 12 (20 out of 155 = 12.9% - it always rounds down).

===

I also resolved the "AC Counter blocking the city buttons" issue - it now does not display at all when the city screen is up.

Will be included (along with some other interface changes for Broader Alignment once I work them out) with the next patch.

 

[Kasdar]

What would I need to change to reduce the frequency of barbarian spawning?

I am getting tired of nonstop barbarian attacks

 

[Slvynn]

What would I need to change to reduce the frequency of barbarian spawning?

I am getting tired of nonstop barbarian attacks

lol thats a quite awesome feature of FfH. Most of people around (at least ones i know) playing with Raging Barbs.

 

[Kasdar]

I prefer a more laid back method of play.

 

[Vehem]

I prefer a more laid back method of play.

The easiest way would be to use the "No Barbarians" option.

In Assets\XML\Gameinfo\CIV4Handicapinfo.xml, each difficulty level has a value named "iLairSpawnRate". If you reduce that value, the lairs spawn more slowly. In the same file there are also lines that look like;

            <iUnownedTilesPerBarbarianUnit>150</iUnownedTilesPerBarbarianUnit>
            <iUnownedWaterTilesPerBarbarianUnit>3000</iUnownedWaterTilesPerBarbarianUnit>
            <iUnownedTilesPerBarbarianCity>160</iUnownedTilesPerBarbarianCity>
            <iBarbarianCreationTurnsElapsed>50</iBarbarianCreationTurnsElapsed>
            <iBarbarianCityCreationTurnsElapsed>55</iBarbarianCityCreationTurnsElapsed>
            <iBarbarianCityCreationProb>4</iBarbarianCityCreationProb>

Each can influence the rate that Barbarians spawn.

 

[Kasdar]

Thank you Vehem

 

[GhostQ]

It's actually deliberately weaker for balancing reasons and appropriate flavourwise. Ambition can be considered the desire to further oneself materialistically - a better position in society, more possessions greater power. Spiritualism is the "other way" - still concerned with furthering oneself, but on a personal and more intangible level. It also represents the fact that Kahd is stepping back from the Kadhi being all about him (driven by his traits).

They still maintain the strong Arcane trait (strong for their theme at least) - plus their "summons" are generally permanent through the vault gates and I'd like to keep the number of summoning leaders limited as that is their major "feature" (it's definitely Keelyn's, though creative is very nice too) - doesn't seem right to tag it on without a solid reason.

I can understand that Oghma path should be weaker than the Mammon path. The weird part for me is that the traits get actually weaker when you turn to Oghma path from the original version of Kadhi. I think it's rather frustating when you go all the way to Strength of Will to get your ultimate just to get your traits weakened in the process (I admit the race gets stronger tho). By the way, I'm not saying Spiritual is weak, actually it's a quite good trait, it just doesn't work out for Kadhi. My suggestion would be, if you are looking for a passive trait for Kadhi (one which would be flavorful with Kadh stepping back a bit) after choosing Oghma path, I'd say Philosophical is a good choice. It fits them too, mages in pursuit of power and knowledge. That would be ending up with Dain's traits, not too good for originality's sake. Maybe create a new trait opposing Ambitious.