Fall Further - The Original Thread

[BeefontheBone]

Following a particularly frustrating game in which I had to explain that the "Armageddon counter is *not* broken - it just doesn't run from 0 to 100 in every game" (the game itself was fine - but given that I was playing Hyborem in an AC war against a human Bannor player who didn't quite "get it" - frustrating, but almost hilarious by the end) I looked at it again.

Working on the principal that "more information is good" and the fact that I kinda miss the Fire-era Armageddon counter, I implemented the following.

The screenshot shows 10 Rosiers (actually only 5, but there are 10 in the stack), adding +2 to the Armageddon Counter each.

The bottom right corner (which is where the AC is currently displayed now shows the "Raw Armageddon Counter" - in this case 20 out of 155, which is correct for 10 x +2 from Rosier.

The top left corner (where the old Fire-Era counter was) now shows the percentage value, which is used to trigger events. In this case, it's showing 12 (20 out of 155 = 12.9% - it always rounds down).

===

I also resolved the "AC Counter blocking the city buttons" issue - it now does not display at all when the city screen is up.

Will be included (along with some other interface changes for Broader Alignment once I work them out) with the next patch.

Might be worth prodding Kael about that - I love it, it'll reduce possibly the most frequently asked question (I think I made it clear in the FAQ now - ran out of characters in the post and had to scale it back a bit!) and it's far more noticeable and sexy up there.

 

[Slvynn]

I can understand that Oghma path should be weaker than the Mammon path. The weird part for me is that the traits get actually weaker when you turn to Oghma path from the original version of Kadhi. I think it's rather frustating when you go all the way to Strength of Will to get your ultimate just to get your traits weakened in the process (I admit the race gets stronger tho). By the way, I'm not saying Spiritual is weak, actually it's a quite good trait, it just doesn't work out for Kadhi. My suggestion would be, if you are looking for a passive trait for Kadhi (one which would be flavorful with Kadh stepping back a bit) after choosing Oghma path, I'd say Philosophical is a good choice. It fits them too, mages in pursuit of power and knowledge. That would be ending up with Dain's traits, not too good for originality's sake. Maybe create a new trait opposing Ambitious.

Mmm or we can use another trait - Creative , instead of Spiritual. But , yes, Kahdi Oghma path are very powerfull due their gate summons and affinities (i like them so much!!!!!! esp my gnostling army ). So it should be "calmed down" with "passive" trait.
Spiritual can work with adding new plannar disciple units too....Kahd The Great Sahvu. (Guru?)

Also more 1 time props to Vehem for balancing worldspells, after tasting and testing they seem be really cool, flavorfull and balanced.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

its just the fact that spiritual is completely useless as khadi....

 

[DharmaMcLaren]

Perhaps leaving the Spiritual Trait but allowing Oghma Kahdi to build a Temple of Oghma or similar that gives a new unit (perhaps non-combat/defensive - a unit that can cast Hope and Inspiration, and maybe a new, unique spell that produces a similar building with +40% to research and +4 happiness but -20% military unit production - with a cap of 3 or something) from the Vault Gate, as well as adding religious happiness and received a bonus from Spiritual could give the Path of Enlightenment the boost it needs. Perhaps also a monument like the Monument to Avarice, maybe buildable by a spell possessed by Oghma Kahd? That way, Enlightenment would be the "builder" path, and... the other one would be the "military" path.

 

[Slvynn]

Perhaps leaving the Spiritual Trait but allowing Oghma Kahdi to build a Temple of Oghma or similar that gives a new unit (perhaps non-combat/defensive - a unit that can cast Hope and Inspiration, and maybe a new, unique spell that produces a similar building with +40% to research and +4 happiness but -20% military unit production - with a cap of 3 or something) from the Vault Gate, as well as adding religious happiness and received a bonus from Spiritual could give the Path of Enlightenment the boost it needs. Perhaps also a monument like the Monument to Avarice, maybe buildable by a spell possessed by Oghma Kahd? That way, Enlightenment would be the "builder" path, and... the other one would be the "military" path.

this sounds good, i like this
however a boni from shrine/whatever should be lowered.
Ensure you Oghma Kahdi are set pretty well. Strong and Potent. With 2 mana nodes and ok industry you have very nice army.
Also sages/ inspirations / followers.
...

my screenshots i posted above are expample of standard immortal game. I have low score but i going for conquest victory
can post a save ))

 

[Vehem]

its just the fact that spiritual is completely useless as khadi....

With the exception of temple build times (because they don't have them), it's actually identical to Vanilla civ. Another alternative would be to just drop the second trait altogether, leaving him with just Arcane/Agnostic? Current thinking however involves including a Disciple gate creature.

 

[GhostQ]

With the exception of temple build times (because they don't have them), it's actually identical to Vanilla civ. Another alternative would be to just drop the second trait altogether, leaving him with just Arcane/Agnostic? Current thinking however involves including a Disciple gate creature.

That's actually something though, isn't it? I mean double temple production cost is the most important part of spiritual trait. If you don't mind duplicating Dain or Perpentach, Philosophical or Creative as Slvynn suggested are nice and fitting.

Also, I've got a few requests about the first page. Could you state the latest version, with subpatches, on the topmost line? As in "Fall Further v0.30a for Fall from Heaven v0.31e". Helps people not miss the latest subpatches. Also in the post where you tell us the changelog and additions, could subpatches stay on top instead of on the bottom of the post; it's harder to locate them that way, because people are used to (or at least that's what I think) "latest patch on top". Thanks.

P.S.: Will you delay the next version till FfH v0.32(next Friday)? Or will we be getting a new version earlier than that? By the way, if I haven't said before, v0.30 is awesome, thank you!

 

[GhostQ]

In my last game I eliminated Kadh, but there was no pop-up of Kadh saying his last words. I was wondering what he had to say .

 

[Ekolite]

Oh yeah, I didn't get one on my Cualli game either.

 

[Vehem]

In my last game I eliminated Kadh, but there was no pop-up of Kadh saying his last words. I was wondering what he had to say .

"D'oh!"

 

[Perkin Warbeck]

"D'oh!"

Awesome last words there

For a moment I had a dumb moment when I was missing stables- but then I realized riders don't need them.

 

[Vehem]

I've just added a numerical display of alignment to the scorelist (simply the number after the alignment - "Evil: -290" etc) and added a "right click" window to the meter ready to display current "per turn" changes.

In doing so, I've noticed that civic alignment changes don't appear to be applied. Going to take a look at that, but may not fix it as I'm planning to change the way it works anyway. Civics will provide "per turn changes" - as these are the choices that your people have to live with everyday. A brief period of Public Health care doesn't mean that you're a instantly a nice guy - but if you've maintained that policy for over a century, odds are you do really care.

==

I also changed the Max/Min values to 500/-500 instead of 511/-511. The "change points" are 166 and -166 (giving 334 Good, 334 Evil and 333 Neutral points - I think, might need to be 165). Basically this is to make it a little easier to work with.


EDIT: I did fix the Civic changes in the end - turned out to be a very simple fix once I looked at Grey Fox's code. It was checking if the modifier was > 0 (so positive modifiers would be applied), when it should be != 0 (any value other than 0 is applied).

 

[Slvynn]

i have idea to run some lil poll here , in thread:

Please post your top 3 civs of FF (only new not-vanilla ones). Rely on game mechanics / favour / RP whatever.
If can pls also comment
Mine are:
Kahdi : my flavour like also option of choice
Chislev : Like them mechanics wise and like them by flavour. Like disciple path too. shamaaaans!
Archos: Like them as AI, like them as powerfull agressive FoL evil worshippers/fanatics.
Also like Lizzies much but its just not my RP/flavour. Not lizzy personality here

 

[Ekolite]

Vehem I think RoK shifts a civ too far towards good. Khazad become good and the Dural become so good its off the scale. Rok is IMO very traditionalist and in a way quite isolationist and suspicious of other cultures. They should be far, far more neutrally aligned then they are now.

Also, just played my first ever Dural game. I like the idea of the college and proffessor but there are some problems. Firstly, they're too spread out across the tech tree. Also, I found they came too late to be of any use. I already had mind 2 spirit 2 mages at the time who do everything a proffesor does and more. I think the college should be put back to Education so it actually has an effect, perhaps with an increase in cost to help balance it. The Proffessor can stay at priesthood I guess, although I don't really see the thematic connection between it and proffessors other then the fact that the Dural study religion.

It might be good if students could upgrade to Proffesors. Perhaps if you could make it so that they'd get an extra spell or two by upgrading them as opposed to building them outright.

 

[mahazel]

i have idea to run some lil poll here , in thread:

Please post your top 3 civs of FF (only new not-vanilla ones). Rely on game mechanics / favour / RP whatever.
If can pls also comment
Mine are:
Kahdi : my flavour like also option of choice
Chislev : Like them mechanics wise and like them by flavour. Like disciple path too. shamaaaans!
Archos: Like them as AI, like them as powerfull agressive FoL evil worshippers/fanatics.
Also like Lizzies much but its just not my RP/flavour. Not lizzy personality here

Mazatl : My favorite civilization, I love swamps and lizzie But especially swamps... And I like them as the "shield vs Armaggedon" , 12 guards+ Wywern Order + hero = -18AC (I don`t like the Order religion, also 3 from Holy City + 2 x 3 from hero = only -9 AC). Also they have greate bonus to Golden Age length.

Cuali : swamp + lizzie the dark side of the lizard race, Shadow Priests are great, and they hero is my favorite hero from all FFH. Vehem, please give him sword as the item! And I`m waiting for lizard assasin model.

Chislev: they are good as opponents (the same like Archos).

 

[woodelf]

Can treants be removed from dungeon exploring? 2 turn games stink.

 

[Kasdar]

The spidermine event is missing the text for the archos option

what is it supposed to be?

Edit: I Also noticed that when exploring a ruin, barrow, ect. with a hunter who is carrying a hawk, that the whak gets all of the promotions which should go to the hunter.

 

[Vehem]

Patch B

1. Kahdi Gate builds twice as quickly with Spiritual
2. Meditation Hall builds twice as quickly with Spiritual
3. Thade is now a Disciple unit
4. Thade chance per spell sphere increased from 12.5% to 20%
5. Meditation Hall allows a sage
6. Meditation Hall grants 1 happiness with Incense
7. Monument to Avarice builds twice as quickly with Gold resource
8. Min/Max Alignments shifted to -500/+500
9. Numerical Alignment now displayed on score list (and when right clicking alignment meter
10. Armageddon counter now displays the "Raw Counter" and "Counter Limit"
11. Fire-style Armageddon counter readded, displaying the percentage (city screen issue resolved.
12. Religion Alignment shift rebalanced for new scale (Order/Ashen +/- 500, Empyrean/Esus +/- 250, Runes/Overlords +/- 125)
13. Spidermine text fixed

 

[Vehem]

Edit: I Also noticed that when exploring a ruin, barrow, ect. with a hunter who is carrying a hawk, that the whak gets all of the promotions which should go to the hunter.

Thanks - will take a look

 

[mahazel]

Two things about ruins- got message about Lich, but appeared Gargoyle, also when I got the message about tresure vault- got nothing.

The armaggedon counter is a big pink square:/