Fall Further - The Original Thread

Vehem I believe you missed my previous post(page 25, post 490) about Lizardmen priests being able to cast Shield of Faith. This happens because a unit can have any of the religions present in the city which created it; and since the priests have the proper promotions; they can cast Shield of Faith which should be available to RoK priests only.
 
Regarding crashing - you did install the FfH patch to version f and then the latest FF, right? Only getting the previous unpatched FfH would probably cause the knid of issue you described.
 
i just noticed something extremely odd (and strangely fun):
all druids, haruspex and Meskwaki can cross mountains.:s im not sure what you did, but they can, and asside from the fact that its overpowering them, extremly fun :)
 
Vehem I believe you missed my previous post(page 25, post 490) about Lizardmen priests being able to cast Shield of Faith. This happens because a unit can have any of the religions present in the city which created it; and since the priests have the proper promotions; they can cast Shield of Faith which should be available to RoK priests only.

I saw it - sorry for not replying - just added it to my mental list of "things that need fixing with the priest spells". I've pretty much decided to remove all of the Divine/Sphere promotions and make a few Lizard-priest unit spells that combine the effects they should have in the first place (Purify - a spell that cures disease in the tile and removes hell terrain in adjacent tiles at the same time for instance). Means a little duplication of code, but does make sure that they have the correct abilities (and solves the religion issue at the same time).

Regarding crashing - you did install the FfH patch to version f and then the latest FF, right? Only getting the previous unpatched FfH would probably cause the knid of issue you described.

Good point - though I think you mean Patch d of 031.

@CMHistory - If you haven't patched FfH upto Patch d before installing FF, you probably would get exactly the problem you described. I try to keep FF up-to-date with the latest patch of FfH - so you need to make sure you have the latest version of both.

Good thinking there BotB :goodjob:

Psychic Llamas said:
i just noticed something extremely odd (and strangely fun):
all druids, haruspex and Meskwaki can cross mountains.:s im not sure what you did, but they can, and asside from the fact that its overpowering them, extremly fun

Druids always could, Haruspex can as an extension of the fact they are Druid-class. Meskwaki had the ability added as part of his backstory, though I actually think I may have left that part of his story out in the end to concentrate on the "Furious" side of things a little more. Might need looking at again now that he's a cheaper research, but it was part of the justification for him requiring Strength of Will originally.
 
So. Ive been working on my Chislev strat. And I have some comments.

Creation Mapscript
Cephalo's Creation script for FFH2 has become very popular (I play it most of the time myself) and a request was made that the new races started in favourable terrain. To this end, I've added civ-preferences to the script for the Lizards, Chislev and the Archos. The Lizards will start in lowland-wet terrain where possible, the Chislev should favour the plains and the Archos favour areas with a decent food-potential (allowing their Capital to grow).

Plains are horrible terrain early game for the Chislev. If this is supposed to be favorable. I dunno where you got that idea. Mid-late game its mostly irrelivant. But still not positive.
On other maptypes they often start on grasslands--and can use early game agriculture and an early worker to build their first few suttlers very fast... Personaly my favorite tactic so far.

I only bring this up because you mentioned that the ajusted creation map was so that the new civs would start on FAVOURABLE terrain. Which, after many started runs-I cant see plains being for the Chislev. Grassland? Yes. Forests? Scarily enough somewhat so. Flood plains-god yes... *shudder*...
Okay. So jungles still suck more. But well. That's true for anyone that isn't the lizardmen ^.^'

I rather deal with the slight swamps issue on normal maps than plains... That should about say it.

Other than that my comments are much nicer.

I love the Chislev's expantion potential. Yea-it could probobly be turned into ICS. But massive well placed countries that dont waste a square are not ICS... ^.^ And not normaly really plausible in Civ4(though, Ive come pretty damned close before...)

I like the concept behind them too. Even if it doesn't quite fluidly fit in from FFH2's pov perfectly-it fills a nitch.

XD Nice graphics. They fit.
 
I only bring this up because you mentioned that the ajusted creation map was so that the new civs would start on FAVOURABLE terrain. Which, after many started runs-I cant see plains being for the Chislev.

I should probably rephrase that to "suitable" terrain. Slowing down their start a little is generally intentional, though I've scaled back some of the obstacles they had in the very first releases. I know that a plains start will slow them down a fair bit in the first 100 or so turns, after that they tend to expand quite happily. In my games with them, I tend to end up "expanding" by whacking the nearest neighbour with the warriors/axemen surplus I've developed due to the plains production. Admittedly it's only on one map-script, but it seems to be by far the most popular one for FfH.

One option I may consider is increasing the effect of rivers on their neighbouring terrain, such that plains next to a river have a much higher chance of becoming grassland (on map generation). I did play around with that on my own version before starting FF.
 
Druids always could, Haruspex can as an extension of the fact they are Druid-class. Meskwaki had the ability added as part of his backstory, though I actually think I may have left that part of his story out in the end to concentrate on the "Furious" side of things a little more. Might need looking at again now that he's a cheaper research, but it was part of the justification for him requiring Strength of Will originally.

wow, i never knew that :wow: shows you how often i play neutral civs lol


and on the note of chislev i just had a plains start game as them and admitedly the start was pretty crap, so i rushed Fellowship of the leaves and druids for terraforming (after getting Meskwaki of course) thats how i noticed the druids crossing mountains thing. anyway, i ended up doing really well with a decent production in all my citys as well as speciallised grasslands/ancientforests or grasslands/river/farm, growth wasnt really an issue *shrudge* although i do play on Noble so....
 
Ok, another , but really refreshing race request to Vehem. Goes for new Metamagic addtion to game , and thus some direct Oghma worshippers.

Kadhi
kadhikk2.jpg

kadhi2zg7.jpg

(1st logo is better = metronome, gremlins, time and such, but second color is more exact)
theme: loyal to Oghma Creatures from Oghma plane. The race is Dimensional (work like shaeim , only get other types of creatures.), strong knowledge/metamagic plane, total neutrality (Agnostic), Summoning, Arcane (changed from Philosophical) wizard leader, additional multiplier for Diplo different alignment penalty. ("-4 you are good" instead -2, same with evil)
Fav wonder: Nexus. Fav civic: Scholarship.
So they are actually Oghma creatures from Oghma heaven, that come for retribution to gods for using their heaven as battlefield. they hate Good and Evil, see them as same, negative destruction force to all what they posses and place they came from.

Starting mana: Metamagic, Mind, Dimensional.
Early mage hero with dimensional affinity +3. sorcery tech is prereq.
color : royal neon blue (Survayaman color from BTS).

the race is relied upon boosted tech resereach, unique mage units and unique units from Plannar Gates , like Gremlins ( :D, i miss them in ffh ), Anomalies (illusion units that come with random positive promos and random 1 lvl 1 spell), Psions (hi move combat units with Mind 3, aviable only late in game, and there is very low chance to have them from gate + need hi lvl building,) Djinns .

worldspell : Time Stop. Stop every single unit in world (Can not move) and makes anarchy for 5 turns for all civs except Kadhi.

to be continued.
 
sounds interesting, but i'm not sure how they'd go with the general theme in FFH (and FF for that matter). These creatures generally are the summons, not the summoners. Also, +3 affinity on any unit is way to strong. Traits seem ok, they're the same type of agnostic as cassiel is (he knows they exist, he just refuses to worship them). I'd tweak it to agnostic, summoning and arcane though.
 
yeah summoning and arcane is better really, also they seem fit pretty well to FFH theme and lore about oghma heavens. Kadhi are mix of Greater lvl summons (which are inhibitants of Oghma heaven) + summoners who summon them (Like Sheaim + Demon units from lower planes).

about Dimensional affinity : dimensional mana is useless, and hero starting power is 4 (normal mage). Its just plain normal mage, that you should build alot of dimentional nodes (which are uselass in other puproses) to make it really hero unit. Plain mage with dimensional affinity 3 not sound too overpowered. to get it to str 13 you need 4 dimensional nodes. also being mage unit it have not any combat promos (like commander, shock, Cr etc.) , so this hero will be tough mage with 2 speres only ! = metamagic + mind. (djinn + dominate) (you gonna use all nodes for dimensional, right?), so for me seems very mediocre unit. Real power comes from summons and tech pace + World spell.
 
Nice. The best part of any of these add-ons is that people can choose not to play them or disable them if they want. The more the merrier. Anyone played the werewolf civ? Any good?
 
Woodelf, any desire to design Kadhi palace? :P
It would be awesome :)
 
i still want a civ like this:

personally i would love to see a civ based around an Bird/humanoid race, lets call them 'Avians' for now.
(Im making all this up on the spot btw )
Avians should be a race of birdlike people who live in great eeires on the tops of mountains. they do not worship the gods and angels as the other races do, and neither do they worship the dragons. instead they worship the Earth itself, each individual piece of it, from every rock, to every tree, and every other living being. above all they worship the sun and acknowledge its gifts to the world.
they strive to develope an understanding of the natural bounds of the earth, and read the signs in nature, particulary those left upon the winds as they carry the knowlege and information from every corner of Erebus to the next, and this knowlege is eternal as wind will never cease to exist, it is a permanent record of the history of the world.
Avian are generally a peaceful race, living above the clouds they rarely meet any other inhabitants of Erebus except when they go down below the cloudscape to examine the world. however, if they are threatened they protect themselves as best they can. they would use their knowlege gained from their studies to persuade the winds of the world to do their bidding, to seek the suns aid, and to use the worlds spirit to defend themselves. they would call together flocks of warrior Avains, armed with javelins, spears, bows and lances, and charge any opponent as well as any blood lusted race.

so

Palace should provide Air, Sun, and Spirit mana.
all their units should have be able to do little recon runs like the hawk, but with shorter distances, they should specialise in long shafted weapons (lances, spears etc, and ranges weapons that can be used from the sky. all units should ignore wall defence bonuses (would a wall stop a bird?) but they should all get sever penalties vs enemy ranged units. they should get bonuses in research, but be agnostic (and instead of getting priests etc, they should get 'scryers' who scry the winds for knowlege and meaning. with divine spells for Air and sun spheres etc.) they could be able to build cities in peaks, but if they do, enemy units can also enter the peaks, and perhaps unable to build cities on flatlands (only on hills and peaks)

anyway, those are my ideas, i doubt they will ammount to anything , but there you have it

id be willing to make unit art if thats a drawback. though i cant animate.
 
I like that too :goodjob: fit me for RP personality, as well as oghma dudes
 
id be willing to make unit art if thats a drawback. though i cant animate.

The main thing that I struggled with with this one is that it's a big diversion from the pre-existing races. The Archos are about as far from the lore as I want to go (human, but mutated) whilst the Lizardmen were established to exist *somewhere* by the original lore.

The Oghma-creatures would have a similar problem - plus I'm not sure that the followers of Wisdom and Knowledge would be seeking retribution against human followers for the actions of their patron deity.

==

That being said - keep the ideas coming. There are parts of each that are sparking my interest - I just don't want to turn "dark-fantasy" into "high-fantasy" by diverting too far from what Kael has set out.
 
The main thing that I struggled with with this one is that it's a big diversion from the pre-existing races. The Archos are about as far from the lore as I want to go (human, but mutated) whilst the Lizardmen were established to exist *somewhere* by the original lore.

The Oghma-creatures would have a similar problem - plus I'm not sure that the followers of Wisdom and Knowledge would be seeking retribution against human followers for the actions of their patron deity.

==

That being said - keep the ideas coming. There are parts of each that are sparking my interest - I just don't want to turn "dark-fantasy" into "high-fantasy" by diverting too far from what Kael has set out.

Well Oghma isnt wisdom, she is Knowledge... Intelligence and Wisdom are different things, and Knowledge = Int, according D&D. Sirona is FfH Erebus god of Wisdom, according Kael's set. so Oghma is not wisdom by all means, just plain knowledge, studying, intelligence, magic, and somewhat unhuman and snobbish, while wisdom driven sirona is much much humane.
Kadhi are led by ambitious wizard Kadh ("Followers of Kadh"), that percieve his own interests of power and knowledge, while he is Oghma worshipper so tend to remain neutral side, instead getting AV side. His power and manipulation through summoning and magic of those plannar creatures and thing that Oghma haven was battlefield of gods, is enough for actually Dark Fantasy game to bring them to a scene as side that values knowledge most than all, but , actually untolerable, snobish and somewhat evil towards normal common human beings. Gremlins and djinns are also not strict hight fantasy, and there is tint of dark fantasy to make them hostile toward "puny humans"

If people like it why not to add it, its also differs from all other civ material that currently exist.
Really trying to convince you, because it seems (and seem not only for me) interesting idea, and you are main modmod dev and drive.

Idea seem original, and can get some changes on way, but surely Oghma creatures can fight human under possesion of some very powerfull wizard-Oghma champion-summoner.
 
That being said - keep the ideas coming. There are parts of each that are sparking my interest - I just don't want to turn "dark-fantasy" into "high-fantasy" by diverting too far from what Kael has set out.

I'm all for diverting personally. It helps keep the game fresh. Since this is a modmod I don't feel that much harm is done. Imagine if Kael hadn't wanted to divert what Firaxis had set out to do...
 
Send me a pic and I'll definitely try.

sorry for so horrible looking sketch, i am just at job atm so have not time to draw much, and while working in Corel can do this 2 minutes job :



The top of it, above mazes:


its floating tower with mazes and such, traps, riddles, tricks, gates to nowhere, time anomalies etc.
Some crazy wizard heaven.

Later i may draw it more detailed or just find pics than can used as detailed inspiration/sample.

Is it possible to make it floating in air?
 
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