Fall Further - The Original Thread

[Ekolite]

I'd be tempted to keep him as he is but stop him from using weapon promotions.

 

[Tarquelne]

Any thoughts or suggestions?

I like it - IMO he's quite "IMBA" even for FFH.
I think the most significant thing is the +2 Affinity - dropping it to +1 might be enough.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I personally think that the only problem with him is Pillar of Fire. He doesn't need another offensive spell, as Crown of Brillance is useful enough. Taking advantage of both Crown of Brillance and Pillar of Fire in the same turn is too much. He's still be one of the best heroes without it.

I personally think that Pillar of fire should be either a second Order High Priest spell or as a spell for Murcurian Seraphs (Fireballs and Fire elemental don't make nearly as much sense for them. Their promotions were given to them to let them use Ring of Flames and Pillar of Fire, before the magic lines were merged.)

 

[Demus]

i thought of the same thing as magister... remove pillar of flame. strenghtwise he isn't that much stronger than some of the other heroes around those techs, it's the -50% strenght on his opponents that's the catch.

 

[Vehem]

i thought of the same thing as magister... remove pillar of flame. strenghtwise he isn't that much stronger than some of the other heroes around those techs, it's the -50% strenght on his opponents that's the catch.

Aye - I don't mind his strength/potential strength (in principle it's about right for a "warrior-hero" at that tech) and I don't mind his spells (good spell set for a "caster-hero") - but the two in combination is seeming a little over-the-top. Dual classed characters are generally supposed to be a little weaker in each class to make up for the versatility.

Looking at Pillar of Flame now to see what would be the best way to deal with it.

 

[MaxAstro]

I like Pillar as a Chalid-only spell; I think lowering his affinity and limiting his weapon use is probably best. Maybe -1 strength, only +1 affinity, and can only use Bronze/Iron weapons?

 

[Vehem]

Just a quick preview of a couple of the Austerin units. The first image is of the Rogue - a scout unique unit which has a habit of turning up where it doesn't belong, ignoring all national borders. They're also quite good at investigating rival cities. The second two are both of the hero unit, Harmatt. The first is his natural state, whilst the second is his mounted version.

Austerin Archmages have the innate ability to summon Pegasi - permanent summons, one per Channelling3 caster. Any Melee, Adept or Archer unit may ride these, giving them +2 Movement and the ability to Fly as well as changing the graphic. The unit is otherwise unchanged (keeps unit-type/combat/promotions) - the pegasus is a graphic/promotion only upgrade.

Harmatt himself is an explorer and follower of Tali. An early Hero with some mid game potential through affinity/weapons.

Harmatt

• Strength 3
• Air Affinity: 1
• Requires Cartography
• 2 Moves
• Ignores Terrain Cost
• High Withdrawl chance (offensive and defensive).
• May use all weapon types
• Requires Cartography

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Very nice. I'm not really a fan of the name Austerin though. It sounds too much like austere, which is the opposite of what this civ embodies.



I would also prefer if Summon Pegasus were availible to the Hippus too.

It might also be good if the Pegasus promotion also gave a weakness to the anti-mounted promotions.

May I assume that the Pegasus unit is deleted when it becomes a promotion? That could cause problems, since they would then cease to count against the limit on permanent summons. One archmage could summon pegasos for the whole army, 1 per turn. (I'm assuming that you don't want high priests to summon these too, so make sure the spell also requires unitcombat_adept)

 

[Vehem]

Very nice. I'm not really a fan of the name Austerin though. It sounds too much like austere, which is the opposite of what this civ embodies.

Aye - words are odd. It's actually based on Auster, which is the south wind personified (Roman name, based on the Greek mythos). I know what you mean though.

May I assume that the Pegasus unit is deleted when it becomes a promotion? That could cause problems, since they would then cease to count against the limit on permanent summons. One archmage could summon pegasos for the whole army, 1 per turn. (I'm assuming that you don't want high priests to summon these too, so make sure the spell also requires unitcombat_adept)

The normal limit on permanent summons isn't used - it's rewritten in the python-reqs to check the number of Pegasus units and Pegasus-rider promotions in total. I may actually have it based on Air3 in the end rather than Channelling3 though...

I would also prefer if Summon Pegasus were availible to the Hippus too.
It might also be good if the Pegasus promotion also gave a weakness to the anti-mounted promotions.

Hadn't thought about the Hippus, though it does seem feasible as the original "Air Sphere Civ" and especially with the equine connection.
I've actually got Pegasi and their riders susceptible to Archery units at the moment (an arrow in your mount's wing will soon bring you back to earth). I can see an easy way to make it vulnerable to a specific formation Promotion (either 1 or 2), but not to both of them (the PromotionCombat field is for a single entry only).

 

[Suuljin]

if you are looking for a name of the (south)wind, here are some:

...different mythologies:
suðri - norse god of southwind
notos - greek god of southwind
livos - greek god of southwest-wind
apeliotes - greek god of southeast-wind
vayu - hindu god of wind
fūjin - japanese wind god

...and regions:
scirocco or sirocco - mediterranean wind (southeast)
leveche - spain, south
kona - hawaiian storm (south/southeast)
levanto - canary islands, hot southeasterly wind
shar-ki - persian gulf, southeast

could find some more, if just a cool-sounding wind-related name is needed

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Aye - words are odd. It's actually based on Auster, which is the south wind personified (Roman name, based on the Greek mythos). I know what you mean though.

Oh, I hadn't thought of the Southwind. Maybe it would be better to base the name off of another wind (either Greek or Roman), so they don't sound austere. Zephyrus is for to kind, and probably far too well known. (Ironically, the Greek name of Auster, Notus (/Notos) means well know in Latin.) Boreas was closely associated with horses, just like Tali. He is also older and tougher than his brothers though, and seems to lack the puerility of Tali. The youth and stormy nature of Notos/Auster is probably a good choice, but he (like Boreas) seems a little to malevolent in my opinion. The youthful and disheveled Eurus, who brings very dangerous storms but is still considered to have a kind personality, might be a little better though.



I still think that Austerin is too close to austere though. You should loose the "e." Auster is a second declension r stem, like vir or magister. The root is Austr-, with the e only present in the masculine nominative singular. The adjective form of the name is Austrin(us), not Austerin(us).

The normal limit on permanent summons isn't used - it's rewritten in the python-reqs to check the number of Pegasus units and Pegasus-rider promotions in total. I may actually have it based on Air3 in the end rather than Channelling3 though...

Ok, just checking. I do worry that a python prereq that has to check all the units might slow the game down. At least it would only run the check for units with Channeling II (or Air III)

I can see an easy way to make it vulnerable to a specific formation Promotion (either 1 or 2), but not to both of them (the PromotionCombat field is for a single entry only).

Yeah, I've been asking Kael to change the schema to allow promotions to have bonuses vs multiple promotions, but he hasn't done so. He said that he thinks it is a good idea and that there have been a couple of times where he wished it worked like that, but that that type of change would take a fair amount of work and that he doesn't want to do it until he really needs to use it for something.

Feel free to change the schema yourself though. This is one of those changes that is pretty important to a few things I have planned for my modmod. I'd really like to have it if I end up borrowing your SDK. You should add it right after you include the latest version of xienwolf's xml modcomp (Although you can go ahead and include UnitStats and FFHBUG first if you want to )

 

[xienwolf]

See now Magister, if you had learned yourself enough C++ to update this idea and all the FF and other MOD codes to the latest BtS Patch you would have a decent shot at getting Kael to just use that as his updated FfH version when he gets back this weekend

I'd do it myself if I wasn't finishing up a class and getting ready for a 2 week vacation.

 

[Slvynn]

I have idea for Air civ.

Longbowmans should be substituted by some Rogue units using throwing weapons (air and luck helps them alot).
Some knive throwers. May be lbs that have marksman promo and no additional defence ?

 

[Slvynn]

About manual progress - i have hard time with texts, i lack alot of information. I need help how i can locate all texts not using game itself (i am not similar with xml)

 

[Vehem]

The youth and stormy nature of Notos/Auster is probably a good choice, but he (like Boreas) seems a little to malevolent in my opinion. The youthful and disheveled Eurus, who brings very dangerous storms but is still considered to have a kind personality, might be a little better though.

It was actually the "malevolent" part that drew me to Auster/Notos - Tali isn't really "nice" from my understanding of him. He can be cruel or kind, changing his mind as the wind blows.

Eurus was the other option I considered, though again in his Roman form, Vulturnus to give the "Vulturin" though that sounded too much like "Vulture" for my liking.

Austrin may be an option though...

Ok, just checking. I do worry that a python prereq that has to check all the units might slow the game down. At least it would only run the check for units with Channeling II (or Air III)

Aye - it'll only actually hit the python for Aust(e)rin Archmages, so it'll only be checking for 4 units.

if you are looking for a name of the (south)wind, here are some:

I think you may have found one of the same pages I did - lots of names to choose from.

 

[Suuljin]

I think you may have found one of the same pages I did - lots of names to choose from

true for the regions part mythology is kinda a hobby, thou...
so if its not just about the sound of it (and not limited to roman/greek myth), i could try to find a spirit/god fitting to the characteristics of the civ.
but since you are all kinda firm in mythologie yourself, i ll wait and see how you skillfully avoid strange interrelationships (since most names in ffh2 are from some myth)

 

[MacGyverInSpace]

I like the Pegasi, very cool. I agree that they're definitely in the Hippus department too.

Not sure if its been done, but I went ahead and made a compatibility patch for FF 33 and Xienwolfs Religious Interface HUD mod - just merged the code from the two conflicting python files. Its a bit broken I'm sure, but playable. Just install FF 33, then the Religious hud mod, and unzip my edited files in the FFH 32e directory. Note, this may break savegames, if you want, back up the two replaced files and test it.

Don't bother reporting bugs, as there is no thread in which to do so, but PM me if it doesn't something insane to your game or if your Vehem or Xienwolf and want this taken down. This will probably be obsolete within a week - I suspect Kael's got something brewing that involves BTS 3.17, Xienwolf's code and Sez. . .

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Any ETA on a 0.32g compatible version? Any chance that you'll update to the latest xienwolf xml modcomp and the latest marnok's explorable lairs (and maybe include UnitStats and FFHBUG) when you get the new version ready.

 

[MaxAstro]

Any chance that you'll update to the latest xienwolf modcomp and NOT the latest Marnok's explorable lairs? XD

Sorry, I love explorable lairs, but the latest version seems to have issues with flooding the map with hundreds of barbarians and slowing the game to a crawl... I'm all for including the new tribal villiage and hero mechanics and everything, but do make sure to tweak the barbarian spawn rate so it isn't so insane?

 

[DuckAndCower]

I love how you've added the ability to toggle each FF civ on and off. Would it be possible to add the same functionality for other aspects of the modmod? (i.e. the worker mod, the alignment mod, and Mardok's mod)