Fall with Fleme

Well looking at the opening screenshot, I'd move the scout 1NE to see what Fleme has hidden behind the mountain.

Otherwise I'm not sure. Where we are gets at least 4 resources, but has two mountains, though the FP's balance this out. So it is a decent spot to settle. East looks a bit Jungly and West a bit to hilly, so at the moment SIP is looking attractive.
 
I would like to settle right where we stand.
 
On the spot looks just fine. Terrain appears to be pretty rough in all directions and it would be plain embarrassing if we wandered off and the settler got eaten by some random creature.
 
Also, we do not have to worry at all about place for other cities. With Austrin it is not a problem :)
 
Oh and I forgot to mention, you'll recognize quest markers as landmarks. Basically, they're like the signs you'd do on alt+s except on black background. Don't confuse them with map features such as the Broken Sepulcher and Letum Frigus eventhough the signs are similar.
 
Alright! Let's Rock!

I guess we can have a bit of discussion before I work up a plan. Here's my thoughts (I always like to itemize):

1) SIP looks pretty strong and i think the terrain and resources look pretty good actually. Plenty of food and windmills will be solid here later.

2) I think we should move the warrior 1N onto the Ancient Tower since the tower provides an extended view of things.

3) I'll be honest. I've played quite a bit of FFH, but most of it was quite some time ago before I was even remotely good at even basic CIV. I have been playing around with it more lately as well as with the FF mod. With that said, I don't always feel that strong with tech paths in FFH, so I would definitely welcome input.

4) What I've found with FF, is that workers can start building just about any improvement, but they take a very long time until certain techs come in. So...

5) Do we go for something like Ag first to build faster farms? Do we make an early play for Harmatt by teching to Tracking (still need Cart)? Do we head to Myst now for God King? AH for subdue animals?

- I've always thought the requirements for Harmatt were a bit steep

6) What are your thoughts on religion for the Austrin? I think FoL works well with them. However, Fleme might have is own ideas on which direction we head in that regard.


If you want I can do 0 turn warrior move to 1N if we all agree and post a screenshot. Since SIP is likely, I won't move the scout until we settle, since I assume we will want to snag that hut first turn.
 
^^^I agree...any thoughts on the 0 turn warrior move?

more thoughts:

-Should we build a worker first? This is my usual move but I don't know if it's always best in FFH since you need defenses quite early

-Should we just use the Rogue to Scout and keep the warrior at home or at least in the general area

- I assume we want to Rogue to sweep around and grab the huts for better results. Also, I guess I should pop that ruin to the south of the Rogue. We might get unlucky but at least it will prevent Lizardmen from spawning so close. Of course, I could end up popping a bunch of Lizardmen :)
 
Ag first with techs, build at least one warrior before the worker, barbs can kill us almost straight away, and I never saw recognised the tower, so yeah move the warrior onto it.

We can move the scout towards the eastern hut and let our borders pop the one just outside them.

As regards scouting, I'd say let the warrior do a small bit then bring him back.
 
BS (ha...your initials are BS)....do you mean move the scout to the hut to the NW near the coast?

Sounds like AG is the first tech and a 0 turn warrior move 1N is acceptable. However, I'll wait for all members of the team to at least check-in and chime-in.

Still need to hear from Old Lion and Dienekes
 
Yeah west not east. Sorry heavy head cold, making me stupider.

Oh, and you want funny?

Spoiler :
I went to school in Nicker:p
 
Ag first with techs, build at least one warrior before the worker, barbs can kill us almost straight away, and I never saw recognised the tower, so yeah move the warrior onto it.

We can move the scout towards the eastern hut and let our borders pop the one just outside them.

As regards scouting, I'd say let the warrior do a small bit then bring him back.

Hear, hear. All in agreement.

Hoping that Fleme would play out his role as DM, I figured we'd be surrounded by hills. RoK seems viable, wouldn't you think?
 
I believe that teching agriculture first is not a bad move. After that, we should try to get second tier recon units ASAP. They have flat movement cost, which is awesome.
I also think that our first unit built should be scout. At baginning, barbs are not such problem (I mean in the first 30-50 turns), and scout can level up killing animals. If it wa my call, I will produce: scout, warrior, worker, or, with less caution: scout, worker, warrior.
We should also remember about possibility of funding new cities with "expedition". it is more expensive than creating settler, but possibly has 2 advantages:
1. funding city as soon as scout gets there, no need to go with escorted settler.
2. building expedition does not stop city growth (food is not used for that).
 
I'm actually not quite sure what level of intervention you wanted so I figured I'd let you get a relatively "regular" start and go from there. Your preferences are most welcome as I'm more than happy to meddle as much as you guys want me to.

To answer on the point of religions lymond brought up; You can go any which way you want with them but certain types of heroes will be available for specific religions and forbidden with others but more on that topic when you guys come to the first switch. Really, you can find interesting options in all the religions; Their outlines are simple enough and those will be reflected in your gameplay, should you opt for a religious approach - a lesser focus on religions will result in lesser "divine" intervention.

Back on the topic of heroes, since you might be interested at the types of "custom" heroes I have in store, read the spoiler on the details

Spoiler :


First of all, in an attempt to not tilt the gameplay too much in your favor, its forbidden to use the custom heroes to offensively wage war against the AI until a certain point in the game. They will not cost upkeep to you so it's not a financial loss to you. Basically, as far as the beginning of the game is concerned, the heroes and your empire are separate entities - consider them as mercenaries hired by the Austrin to solve various matters around the empire but at the same time a bunch of people who would rather not risk their lives waging war unless necessary. Their commitment increases over time.

Additionally, there is a limitation of five custom heroes at one time so if one of your heroes dies he can be replaced by some means. Additionally, there may be ways to resurrect your heroes but these are matters to be considered if and when heroes perish.

On to the classes.

First let's outline the basic classes of heroes available: Fighter, Spellcaster, Cleric, Ranger, Thief, Naturalist, Rider, which are then divided into subcategories: I mean come on, you didn't want your pick to be that easy did you?

Fighters are divided into Berserker, Master of Arms and Champion. Berserkers are adept attackers who are weaker on defense and their custom promotions will reflect this. Masters of Arms on the other hand will be able to wield a much wider range of equipment (FF has a good selection) and are most like the stock FfH heroes - I'd imagine them being like Donal Lugh/Valin Phanuel towards the end. Lastly, the Champion is something that is dependant on your religion or the lack thereof. An Empyrean champion will build entirely differently than a champion of Esus (who will borderline be a warrior/rogue dual class).

Spellcasters are just that, mages. They are not as much dependant on your available mana or your alignment but rather on the fact what types of casters you stumble on during your travels and what kinds of tomes of magic you discover through questing. Obviously, it's a very unlikely chance to have a Death3 caster when you're all in on holy but it might happen. There may also be opportunities to create battlemages, which are warrior/mage hybrids or if your chosen path leads you there, cleric/mage? Could be. Personally I'd like to see what I'd come up with when you're practicing Esus and have a thief/mage hybrid. Hmp! There really are infinite combinations. Type/name of the mage will be defined by the spells they use. Who knows, maybe certain mages will even have familiars to support them?

Moving on, Clerics represent the regular priest class and will ultimately be above the power your average high priest would have. Considering you'd play a devout game, these heroes along with the champion heroes have the potential to be the strongest of the lot.

Rangers are the protectors of your homeland. Warder, Guardian and Marksman are the subclasses of the Ranger class. Warders have access to various traps, are resistant to magic and are focused on defending the stack by the aid of traps (enabled in FF) and being resistant to magic. Additionally, Warders are influenced by your chosen religion and any Warder under Fol, Rok or CoE will gain access to limited magical abilities and various other goodies. Guardians are protectors and scouts. They have access to certain scouting abilities and are well versed in defending your stack. Skilled Guardians will also gain ability to command other units in battle and boost them through this. Lastly, the Marksman is an adept bowman. They define ranged combat and are unparalleled in this.

Thieves are the stealthy scoundrels and assassins at your disposal. They're well suited for exploring and stalking on the weak. They don't necessarily divide into subclasses but can specialize in various dark arts. For example, thieves can specialize in poisons, mageslaying or plain old slice and dice. Poisons are reflected in promotions and access to traps. Mageslayers specialize in being the assassins to focus enemy spellcasters. They become adept in resisting magic and will ultimately become immune to it entirely. Slice and dice is represented in increased specialization to weaponry and gear. However, thieves in general are opportunists and not as clearly defined - as opportunity arises they adjust to it.

The Naturalist is technically an extension or the sibling class of the ranger but with an entirely different focus. This class divides into Druid, Shaman and Beastmaster. They are all in tune with nature in various ways and the first two subclasses are in fact dependant on the religion/faction you play however the world of Erebus holds various secrets and perhaps even a Shaman might join you if you play your cards right. (Technically they are restricted to only the Chislev, Horde, both Lizard factions and a few others). Druids on the other hand rely on the fact that you follow either RoK of FoL as your state religion and their skillset will depend on your religion of choice. However, here I must again state that even though you might follow Order, you might have a devout FoL druid in your hero party - it just won't gain the religion benefits it would if you followed the religion. Basically Shamans are a combination of minor healing abilities and offensive spells. They are elementalists and have access to spells of all natural schools and as such offer a very broad base to build on. Druids on the other hand, are more focused in healing and command the elements of earth and nature with later opportunities to specialize in air. However, their increased healing/summoning abilities make up for the loss of offensive spells. Both the Shaman and the Druid prefer neutral alignment with the shaman tilting slightly on the evil side and the druid to the good side. Lastly, the Beastmaster. They are not bound by religion or alignment and are those who wander alone. Simply put, they command powerful animals to combat all the while being potent fighters themselves.

Finally, the Rider. These are the only mounted hero type and their innate strength is speed. The class divides into Outrunner, Knight and Lancer. Outrunners are light units capable of traveling great distances in short periods. They are the ultimate scout but their combat abilities are lesser than most other heroes. In the early game, however, these heroes shine. The Knight is a heavy cavalryman and is built for battle. They are much like Masters of Arms with the exception that they are mounted and exchange some of their punch for mobility. Knights, however, are not available until you unlock specific civics. Lastly, the Lancer is a mix between the two. It is mobile and capable of using various items to supplement its abilities. As with other mounted heroes, it exchanges special abilities in favor of being faster than other heroes.

Additionally, I'd like to point out that the models of heroes change through the game to reflect their development. They may start out ragged but they'll end up something fancy!

That's a lot of text isn't it. You will be given details on how to get your first hero when you are doing the first switch. The first hero will be special in the sense that you can decide which of the available hero types it will be. While you have a say on which heroes you enroll to your party later on, they may not be the types you'd hope to see.


 
Actually, I played through with Austrin not too long ago and found that eventually the expeditions become much quicker to build than settlers, which is interesting since Diedra gets a bonus on settlers with her trait. All that may be relative to how much production you get. Anyway, I do think expeditions are the best and most flexible approach and you can build some and settle at your leisure with your recon units and Harmatt.

Still haven't heard from Old Lion and Dienekes. Since everyone so far has agree on the warrior move, I will at least perform that move now and post a screenshot so we can determine whether there is some impact to our settling situation. Then I can really formulate the first plan.

I do like build a rogue first, but I think we should get a worker up sooner than later. We can keep the warrior we have close by for now and just let the rogues do the scouting.

Should we pop that ruin to the south now to avoid lizardmen spawn?
 
I'm in two minds about popping the ruins, if it were SP I would, but then if it went belly-up I'd just reroll a new map. But we could always park a unit on it until about turn 50, maybe the warrior?
 
Okay, here is a view after the warrior moved onto the tower. Nothing eyeopening revealed by the move. I was hoping the tower would reveal more of the water.

Spoiler :


[/URL]


My initial plan based on discussion:

SIP
Start a Rogue (should I work jumbo tile for faster 2nd rogue or FP for faster growth)
1st Rogue will first move to Ruin to pop it and then head East
Warrior will roam a bit to the West but come back to the city
2nd Rogue once built will head NW to pop the hut and then head West and SW to explore
Start worker (or warrior) after 2nd Rogue completes. I doubt a worker will complete during my turnset.

Edit: Tech Agriculture (doubt this will finish)

What is the next tech?


Questions:

1) Do we want to try and pop ruins and dungeons (and other poppable landmarks) as we come upon them first thing or wait?

2) Except for some early experience, should we avoid killing some animals in order to subdue them later. Some animals like spiders may be a bit much for our rogues at this point.

3) I'm assuming 10 turns, but should a play a bit longer if I don't hit a quest. I'm not even sure what I'm looking for unless a message pops up? :)
 

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I'm in two minds about popping the ruins, if it were SP I would, but then if it went belly-up I'd just reroll a new map. But we could always park a unit on it until about turn 50, maybe the warrior?

I've never tried that. Does that prevent spawns? Interestingly the ruin just south is right next to a possible next city site so posting a warrior there may be a good thing anyway.
 
1) Close to us it may be better to leave them until 2-3 warriors in the cap. That's why I suggested parking a unit on the ruins.

2) Kill the more common animals (Lions, Wolves) if we can, but if we see e.g. an ape don't kill as they are a bit rare.

Don't the Austrin explorer units get subdue animal as a promotion without tech requirements though?

Edit: Parking units prevent spawns on ruins etc. if they're empty first (only applicable to Barb civs like the Clan). Unless FF has reversed that mechanic from the base game.
 
First, rerolling the map would ruin my work royally as there are a lot of features I've created there so let's hope you don't die early - I at least didn't create anything to kill you any sooner than any regular map would. *Grumble*

Second, quest marker is a black sign. These will remain on the map until the lines they provide are completed. So, if a black sign (similar you'd do with alt+s) is active, there's a quest to be had. There aren't too many quests available right away, but a couple are within your immediate reach.

Also, unless I'm mistaken, Dienekes is now known as AntiTwelve.

Lastly, I think standing on ruins/barrows/goblin forts and the like prevents spawn if you keep standing there but don't quote me on that. Austrin recon get the adventurer promo which reduces the chance of bad rolls but these are decisions for you guys.
 
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