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Fallout 4

Discussion in 'All Other Games' started by civvver, Nov 10, 2015.

  1. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Warlord

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    I'm not sure if this is what you mean by "general feeling", but I feel like the game really embodies the old saw "a mile wide and an inch deep." They've created a really great play area, sort of a platform upon which a great game could be built. It reminds of my days game-mastering tabletop roleplaying games for a group of players: I would spend ages detailing the game world and then go light on the story, because I wanted to see what my players came up with.

    Fallout 4 has created a huge game world, introduced a pile of groups and game mechanics, and then done fairly little with them, much like the "campaign books" you can buy for a tabletop RPG. If I had the ability to meddle, to start conflicts and form alliances and to generally get the Commonwealth moving, then it would be great. As it is, in a CRPG the player is essentially powerless and can only do what the designers have given her to do. So far, all of the mods I've seen have been cosmetic and don't appear to expand the gameplay at all. I don't know if that's a function of the mod tools or not.


    p.s. I forgot to mention that the main storyline pretty much blows. The ending was just awful.
     
  2. Turquoiside

    Turquoiside Chieftain

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    Hmm. I've still never bought this but I was considering it if it went on sale. Can anyone tell me if 4 plays more like Fallout 3 or New Vegas? I know a lot of mechanics are different compared to both games and Bethesda was the maker like with 3, but overall which one does it feel more like? I only ask because one of those is probably the best non-Civ 4 game I've ever played and one of them left me bored out of my skull. I'm afraid of spending literally any amount of money on 4 if it's going to be that boring.
     
  3. Zack

    Zack 99% hot gas

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    it doesn't really play like either

    the shooting/looting/guns mechanics in 4 are much much better than either, however the writing/"RPG"-ness is not on new vegas' level. The circlejerk against it is a bit harsh though, the story/writing/characters are still noticeably better than 3. It's the first bethesda game I've played where I was only mildly disappointed with the writing, rather than hugely disappointed, for what it's worth. There are some great moments and characters, as well as lackluster moments and characters. But the most enjoyable part for me was the gunplay and upgrading my weapons and stuff.

    I enjoyed 4, but for different reasons than I enjoyed new vegas. I didn't really enjoy 3.
     
  4. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

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    It plays like 3 but with better gunplay and more gun/armor customization. The writing and characters are better but I still am amazed at how Bethesda's animations for a new game look so much cruder than animations on Witcher 2 and far too often veer into the uncanny valley.
    The RPG mechanics though are pretty lacking - especially when it comes to character building. I don't know what it is but I'm never that excited to level up my character. Rather than "Yes! Level up." it is more "Oh, I leveled up. I'll get a new perk eventually".

    It borrows Fallout NVs ability to side with various factions -although not to the same extent as NV- and actual companies. And here Bethesda did a better job with companion quests than Obsidian. None of the stupid "you must have this NPC in your party the first time you visit a location otherwise you might screw yourself out of their questline" that required you to basically play with a guide in front of you and lead to moments like "Oh no! I went to Red Rock without Boone so I missed a dialogue trigger that will cause his quest not to activate. Better reload or muck about in the console."

    Given you prefer NV to F3 I'd wait until its on a 50% steam sale and pick it up then; but it is a solid game. It is just so many good open world games and RPGs have come out we've all been spoiled and Bethesda can't rely on "we make the only good RPG unless you want to head into the 'so bad its good' category like Two Worlds".Witcher 3 and DAI showed what can be done with an open world and story. I'll cut Bethesda some slack because they may have been constrained by what they can do with the same game engine they used in Skyrim but for their next game they really need to step it up.
     
  5. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    Two Worlds' voice acting was definitely in the "so bad" category, but often veered into "... it's good" territory. :)
     
  6. Maniacal

    Maniacal the green Napoleon

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  7. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Warlord

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    Far Harbor downloaded this morning. For some reason I thought it wasn't out until tomorrow. I'm looking forward to starting it when I get home tonight.

    Last night I spent some time trying to make the house at Jamaica Plain habitable, and holy mother of God the construction module is a freakin' dumpster fire. I swear I must have spent 15 minutes just trying to cover a hole in the floor that I kept falling through. Eventually I gave up and cordoned it off with railings. :lol: They could use a whole new DLC just making that part of the game playable.
     
  8. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    Two Worlds did have some good ideas in it (particularly the merging of identical items to make better items), but man, the horse riding was super frustrating.
     
  9. Wolfbeckett

    Wolfbeckett Jerkin' and nonsense.

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    Yeah the construction system is a hot mess. I hope they don't make a DLC out of fixing it, having to pay to fix something that should have worked better in the first place is ridiculous. The modders can probably sort it out.

    Re: the game's writing. All I can say is no kidding it's bad. I've said it would be since they announced it. Bethesda's writing staff could not write their way out of a wet paper bag. Morrowind had a lot of quality stuff, but after Mark Nelson, Michael Kirkbride, and Ken Rolston all left it's been a downhill plummet. More like a cliff than a hill really.
     
  10. Maniacal

    Maniacal the green Napoleon

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    I have a feeling that the writers are super buddy buddy with Todd and whoever else is in charge, and it really seems like the popularity and fame of the Bethesda's games has long since gone to Todd's head.

    Or having looked at their IMDB profiles, it looks like almost none of them have any other experience than Fallout 4 or maybe Fallout 3 aside from one guy who worked on KotOR 2 and DAO.
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4741306/fullcredits?ref_=ttco_sa_1
     
  11. Zack

    Zack 99% hot gas

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    i mean, the writing in video games in general is bad. I don't think fallout 4's is especially bad.
     
  12. Wolfbeckett

    Wolfbeckett Jerkin' and nonsense.

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    If we're comparing it to all video games, no, it's not terrible. But single player cRPG's are generally held to a higher standard, one that Bethesda regularly falls well short of.
     
  13. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    Much of Skyrim's writing was really lazy, especially regarding the inability to decline quests and being forced to join multiple guilds just to complete the MQ.
     
  14. Maniacal

    Maniacal the green Napoleon

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    That doesn't make it excusable.
     
  15. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

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    I can't say that Morrowind's writing was all that good - rather Kirkbride's fevered ramblings created an engaging enough world. For example:
    I don't see the difference besides Morrowind dialogue being wordier and way too often collapsing into infodumps.
    Quest writing wasn't much better. Just about every quest in Morrowind was a non-interactive fetch quest with faction questlines being pretty bland with any story painted in broad strokes. For example, the Fighters Guild has a backstory with how the guild is being taken over by the Cammona Tong but basically nothing comes of it. Eydis Fire-Eye (first Fighters Guild quest giver) stands there and you learn later she is corrupt. That's some character right there. :rolleyes:
    I won't deny that Bethesda has gotten lazy; but it isn't like their writing is any worse. They just lack Kirkbride's fevered ramblings and ability to devote paragraphs to minor NPCs in stilted language.
    Unfortunately, the Fallout wiki doesn't list all of the character dialogue for FNV but I don't remember being particularly blown away by the quality of the writing - especially when compared to F4's companies. I'll give up a bit of writing quality for not having to play with a guide open to avoid screwing myself out of the companion quest because I didn't have an NPC in my party when I first visited a location.

    I think part of the issue is that all of Bethesda's NPC interactions have to be character neutral. For example, in the Witcher games you are Geralt. Geralt's character and approach to situations is pretty much set in stone. Same with Mass Effect to an extent. Expecting Bethesda to write dialogue for NPCs taking into account your faction, reputation, and prior actions isn't feasible. One of the big decisions in Witcher 2 is whether you sided with Roche or Iorveth after Flotsam. It is pretty easy to write good dialogue that takes into a controlled event in the game. Suppose however that you were under no obligation to choose Roche or Iorveth before proceeding in the game, and instead decided to wander around the Kaedweni camp and make A Very Important Decision before making your decision regarding Iorveth or Roche. That would be a lot harder to write for and would require either basic dialogue or have audio files so large it would eat up several hard drives.


    It does, however, make it an odd thing to single out Bethesda for.
     
  16. Zack

    Zack 99% hot gas

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    it makes it a weird thing to harp on

    not like it was worse than skyrim, yet i don't remember people making a big deal out of that game's writing. After Fallout 3, my expectations were prettty low and I was pleasantly surprised that the writing was mediocre instead of abjectly terrible. idk what people were expecting, this is bethesda, by their standards the writing was actually fairly good.
     
  17. Maniacal

    Maniacal the green Napoleon

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    Hardly an odd thing to single out (nor is it my only complaint) when the dialogue and story are a major focus of the games and a critical part of this type of RPG. Morrowind's writing may not have been all that great overall, but it's also been FOURTEEN YEARS. Expecting it to be better and see some improvement is only natural, and the fact there hasn't been any should be quite embarrassing for them. They have zero excuses for not improving it, it's not like they lack the money or fame to attract decent writers.

    Especially when the bad writing stands out like a sore thumb, detracts greatly from the game, and the rest of the game doesn't really quite make up for it.
     
  18. Wolfbeckett

    Wolfbeckett Jerkin' and nonsense.

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    I did!

    I've been giving them hell for their writing ever since Fallout 3.
     
  19. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Warlord

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    The writing of Bethesda games has marginally improved. But that still hasn't improved their replayability of the games. I haven't touched Fallout 4 since last year. The game is missing something, and I'm not sure what. The biggest thing for me is the ability to role play quests in different ways. Why play the game again when nearly all the quests play out in the same fashion? To be fair, Skyrim, Oblivion, Fallout 3, and Morrowind also had this problem. Lacking a proper "Fallout" ending also hurt this game. I know people want to play after finishing, but why? This isn't a MMO.
     
  20. Turquoiside

    Turquoiside Chieftain

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    Thanks everyone. I think I'll pick it up at some point then; it sounds like it has potential. If the changes work, I'm not the type to get too upset at seeing the old mechanics get left behind.
    And yeah, it's kind of comforting that I didn't even need to say which one of them I didn't enjoy for it to be obvious. :lol: I get the feeling it's not an uncommon opinion.
     

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