Fastest Science Victory

[consentient]

Do you have a Plastics save? Those numbers are really good.

I checked that 150k beakers post-Plastics figure, and it seems to be wrong. For 4 cities I'm getting 182k if you don't go Fertilizer first, and 178k if you do. Each additional city adds around 7500 post-Plastics beakers required. Rationalism finisher shaves off 10k if you use it on Satellites.

So in your case with 1300 bpt and 15 GSs, that should be enough science to win in 30-35 turns after Plastics in theory.

Nope, sadly I actually cleaned out my save games folder last night because I only gave the Windows Partition a minimum amount and have to preserve space. Next time I play a SV (2020 maybe ) I'll hang on to some saves so you can look at them.

So the answer to how people get to Plastics earlier is that they built more cities? I guess that allows for more food caravans to the capital as well. But it does increase the cost of things like Oxford, which I built in one turn.

Ah well, SV is not my forte, perhaps I'll work on it again in the future.

 

[Iamteehee]

Usually, getting to Plastics is a bit slower with 6+ cities than 4-5 cities, but I think that map was good enough where that wasn't true.

 

[stormtrooper412]

I replayed the Spain map and finished on turn 213. Lots of stuff went wrong, I started on Apollo kind of late and I didn't remember to save a GE for Hubble, so I missed out on 2 free ones which might have even cut it down to 200. Liberty is much much fun. With some timely Pagodas, Circuses and city state alliances, I was very rarely unhappy. I even built zoos in all cities

 

[garmeth]

Alright, with the tips from this thread I wanted to try to get a 210-225 victory on a random Pangaea map and it was looking absolutely perfect until the unspeakable happened.

Spoiler :

http://imgur.com/gIVx43p
http://imgur.com/KdLoxjO

I literally had more than half of the CS allied on the map by the time the first picture was taken and was in control of the world's congress for the entire game having 1/2 the CS allied at the time of the second picture, but still someone proposes arts funding and it passes. Is there a way to stop this?

One more thing happened that I didn't even think was possible. How are there literally no faith CS on the map?? Considering someone built the Hanging Gardens at turn 50, and my capital wasn't directly on a river as well as one more of my cities, my great person generation was drastically hindered by these two facts. This murdered my finishing time. I got the max faith generation pantheon for my lands +4 faith from natural wonders and worked Mt. Sinai for the entire game but was only able to generate 1 GS. I was extremely close to getting a 2nd but the lack of faith CS really, really hurt me. This was my best first 150 turns by far, I had 4 city NC up by turn 72 and plastics at turn 185 or 186, and I allied every culture CS on the map and had two golden ages run during the World's Fair with 3 great writers. I gained over 12,000 culture from this but still I ran out of steam at the end game due to arts funding and only 1000 faith from GS. I was just sitting there waiting and clicking next turn as I only needed 2 more GS to win in the 220s but ended up winning on turn 242 :/. I got 4 GS from Hubble, PT, and LToP.

Also, I had another game on Pangea with a 242 Polish victory that was **significantly** worst in all regards except for no arts funding and a useful religion that yielded 3 great people. Its a shame that this fantastic start ended like this haha.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

sometimes you just can't do jack about it. in the ottoman NEW deity challenge arts funding was proposed as the first resolution. i would've finished T240, but lost to a CV ~T235. couldn't do anything about it.

for some reason almost all AIs will love arts funding. idk how the flavors work.

 

[consentient]

Alright, with the tips from this thread I wanted to try to get a 210-225 victory on a random Pangaea map and it was looking absolutely perfect until the unspeakable happened.

At the first WC vote in that Spain Prince game, I proposed Science Funding, knowing I could easily get it through. The other nominee puts forward....Arts Funding.

Both pass. P O I N T L E S S

It is definitely boring in BNW how the AI doesn't properly align itself to a VC, and most of them spend so much energy on Archaeology and Religion. Harald Bluetooth, as was said in the Acken Mod thread, should not care about either.

I guess I could have had an extra 1 or 2 GS if I had gotten Science Funding passed without Arts Funding, but the big thing for me is still going from an early education to an early Plastics as quickly as possible. And someone here was actually saying that in most cases more cities actually makes it slower. I'm trying to square that with how my fastest CV and fastest SV both came from wide games!

 

[yung.carl.jung]

I've never had that happen to me. That's insane

I agree that more cities get you a slower ST and Plastics. It is always the case for me. The reason to go beyond 4 City Trad is because you want stronger lategame bulbs, not because you want earlier ST or Plastics.

Even with the science penalty for additional cities taken into consideration, a few hundred beakers from 1 or 2 additional cities can mean everything in the lategame. Wide Freedom, especially with Korea, is an extremely powerful strat.

So here there are two different strategies: Getting to Plastics as fast as humanly possible (4 City Trad) and making the post-Plastics game go past as fast as possible (5-6 City Trad, 7-8 City Lib). All of them produce good finishing times, though personally I have to say that both 5-6 City Trad and 7-8 City Lib are much harder to pull off than 4 City Trad and not only require excessive micromanagement, but also thinking ahead in terms of smiles, ideology pressure, culture (because you can't just get your entire empire carried by cult. CS.. they don't scale..) and GP generation.

 

[poxpower]

It is definitely boring in BNW how the AI doesn't properly align itself to a VC, and most of them spend so much energy on Archaeology and Religion.

Yeah I've had the same happen haha. The one game where I spent all my energy getting enough influence to get science funding passed, the AI just passed arts funding to negative it.
They just won't let you have it, ever. As long as the human player is the leader in anything, every single AI will vote against you in the world congress, but if one of the AI is a huge wonder spammer, they will still happily pass cultural heritage sites or whatever that thing is that gives extra culture for world wonders.

Also they never ever pass Natural Heritage Sites for some reason.

 

[vadalaz]

Use diplomats. If you can't make the AI downvote Arts funding, make them vote for the other proposal so they don't put any votes into Arts funding at all. It also helps to have someone grumpy like Nebuchadnezzar or a warmonger in player 2 slot, so that they propose something irrelevant like embargo.

HOF got updated so I can post the Huns/Deity saves. I think Explorer's map pack is enabled for these though: http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ5/game_info.php?dsply=&entryID=10895

 

[poxpower]

Turn 168 on settler... still not even playing very efficiently. I'm sure you can do under 160 on this map... Alex stole desert folklore from me ( lol ) so I picked "+2 faith from foreign cities" which in the end might be worth more faith, or about the same, but does require I build Borobudur to spread my religion...

I tried +15% food and +15% production bonus instead of getting buildings, I think I should have gotten monasteries for the culture instead and now that I know where the culture cs are, I can discover them faster... I had to do world's fair entirely alone to get the last freedom, which delayed me by like 2-3 turns. Lol stupid settler AI, they had put like 100 hammers total into world fair after like 40 turns.

Spoiler :

 

[Iamteehee]

Is it possible to faithbuy 5 GS on settler? I think you could get 15k faith with pilgrimage and divine inspiration.
I think that pilgrimage is the best founder belief for settler. Tithe will probably be worse than church property which will be worse than pilgrimage because 2 faith>2 gold. Thoughts?

Btw, what map are you playing? Lakes?

 

[vadalaz]

Is it possible to faithbuy 5 GS on settler? I think you could get 15k faith with pilgrimage and divine inspiration.

Not in 160 turns I think. Assuming T110 industrial era and having 1200 faith stored, you'd need 280 fpt to get 15k.

 

[stormtrooper412]

I'm trying to square that with how my fastest CV and fastest SV both came from wide games!

Bulbs on a wide game are a lot more potent and your gpt is or at least should be much higher

I never bother with Sci Funding tbqh, in any of the really good games I had, I used first vote for WF and second for whatever I feel like it *might* help in the short time that's by that point left in the game

 

[poxpower]

Is it possible to faithbuy 5 GS on settler? I think you could get 15k faith with pilgrimage and divine inspiration.
I think that pilgrimage is the best founder belief for settler. Tithe will probably be worse than church property which will be worse than pilgrimage because 2 faith>2 gold. Thoughts?

Btw, what map are you playing? Lakes?

Highlands.
I bought 2 gs and 1 engineer for hubble.

The problem with pilgrimage on this map is that there's no oceans so all the cities are quite far apart and it takes missionaries to convert them.

Anyway it's very interesting and different to play this on settler. Very little RNG so I feel someone who comes up with an optimal build order/game plan would crack this and get a repeatable finish time.

 

[fimbul]

Well I had fun getting my first sub-200 on the spain coast mountain posted somewhere in this thread. Think I messed up on the post plastics part; double bulbed into it on T163 and then it took 35 turns to end it which seems wrong.

 

[vadalaz]

Congrats on the sub-200

 

[consentient]

Which save was that, fimbul? That looks like a really nice map

 

[poxpower]

Yusss turn 161 on settler. Is that the fastest time?
That's just on the first try for this map as well. This time I got desert folklore and monasteries, which allowed me to have plenty of culture and faith. I bought 3 GS with faith and 1 GE in the end, with 1000 faith to spare still.

I'm finding a big problem is how the game forces you to only get 1 tech per turn unless you bulb a great scientist. Even if you had enough science for 10 techs, it will only advance by 1 tech so by the end that's like 20 turns of you slowly going through the tech tree basically waiting for the interface to catch up to where you should really be. Kind of a lame artificial limiation. It also forces you to waste scientists for overflow I'd bet.

Spoiler :

 

[Acken]

Thats not exactly how it works only the overflow is capped not the amount you bulb. Each time you bulb the science is applied on a tech and if you get the tech the rest is put into an overflow pool that cannot be used before the next turn. It is that pool that is limited.

The overflow cannot give you a tech eiher before being emptied next turn. This is why you will see your tech as if completed but still saying it needs 1 turn.

If you have many scientists and many techs requiring 7ish turns of science you will not have a problem getting multiple of those in a single turn.

 

[poxpower]

The problem is that in the last turns after rocketry I have to go through like 30 techs, but the way the game works, you can only get one per turn, plus one extra for each scientist, no matter how much science is required.

So that limits how fast you can get the last techs no matter how much science you have, sadly.