Fastest Science Victory

[Acken]

I have a turn 185 win with spain on prince. A good great plains with 3 wonders that another user shared. While you dont get some of deity bonuses the ai is so bad that it makes some other stuff easier and to your advantage.

Its the map consentient linked.

Emperor and immortal may be the worse difficulty due to the ai being annoying without any way to leverage their nonuses

 

[consentient]

Its the map consentient linked.

Me? Are you sure?

 

[Acken]

Sorry its not you I got confused. It's

I tried it once. I think with a strong enough start, prince is easier than diety, but I think I enjoy playing Diety more. It just feels very weird to me being unable to have a good early economy, steal workers etc.

I tried it with awhile ago this save, resulting in a t218 SV. I think I could probably get sub200 with this map, but it just doesn't seem very fun. This map is very strong though, I think faith buying 4 GS is possible if you take divine inspiration.

 

[poxpower]

I just tried on settler with shoshone. I thought I was so clever but then I checked this topic again and the record time had the same idea, only did it 30 turns faster :,(
I played very suboptimally though as a test run and got turn 192.

It's very funny and broken.

 

[vadalaz]

What is the earliest that the AI get Education for example? If the AI have awesome dirt etc., can they tech it in order for it to be stolen via Assyria's UA before it can be teched normally by the human player on god dirt?

This post and another one in General Discussions got me thinking. Does anyone know if you can cheese it with Assyrian UA by gifting AI a city and then conquering it back on the same turn? Plant a city, get a free tech. That'd be a really funny way to expand.

Edit: Nope, doesn't work. Too bad.

 

[stormtrooper412]

I tried it once. I think with a strong enough start, prince is easier than diety, but I think I enjoy playing Diety more. It just feels very weird to me being unable to have a good early economy, steal workers etc.

I tried it with awhile ago this save, resulting in a t218 SV. I think I could probably get sub200 with this map, but it just doesn't seem very fun. This map is very strong though, I think faith buying 4 GS is possible if you take divine inspiration.

I remember that map, I think I got a T205 win

 

[Acken]

This post and another one in General Discussions got me thinking. Does anyone know if you can cheese it with Assyrian UA by gifting AI a city and then conquering it back on the same turn? Plant a city, get a free tech. That'd be a really funny way to expand.

Edit: Nope, doesn't work. Too bad.

It checks if you ever earned the city.

 

[consentient]

What about the answer to my original question? Is it possible for a Deity AI on great dirt to hit Education before an Acken, Vadalaz, Babinski, etc. can hit it? If so, a well-timed Assyrian capital snipe could a) get Education super early, b) pillage gold on city capture to help with the cost of Universities, and c) (with the right city capture) add a nice city to produce more beakers over the course of a game.

I mean, it would require everything to be just perfect, but if you captured a size 15 Delhi with a ton of wonders on great dirt, and Gandhi had gone Piety so your CBs, Pikes and Siege towers were enough, I could envisage it being viable.

Or am I completely wrong?

 

[Chum]

What about the answer to my original question? Is it possible for a Deity AI on great dirt to hit Education before an Acken, Vadalaz, Babinski, etc. can hit it? If so, a well-timed Assyrian capital snipe could a) get Education super early, b) pillage gold on city capture to help with the cost of Universities, and c) (with the right city capture) add a nice city to produce more beakers over the course of a game.

I mean, it would require everything to be just perfect, but if you captured a size 15 Delhi with a ton of wonders on great dirt, and Gandhi had gone Piety so your CBs, Pikes and Siege towers were enough, I could envisage it being viable.

Or am I completely wrong?

The problem is getting education with it.

On my Assyria games, I've had the flattest tech tree I've ever had. I couldn't beeline if I tried, because their UA seems to give you the cheapest tech you don't have. So in order for it to work, you'd have to know the AI has education, and also not have education yourself, whilst simultaneously having all of the other techs the AI has.

 

[poxpower]

Down to 176 on settler/standard/shoshone/highlands now...
Still 12 turns slower than record guy though...

 

[consentient]

I remember that map, I think I got a T205 win

Inspired by you, I gave it a try, but could only manage T233.

I must be doing something really wrong, I guess.

I had 15 GS ready by turn 195, which was 8 turns after Plastics.

But when I bulb them, they seem not to chew through the tech tree as fast as people are talking about. The lower bit especially, towards the Stasis Chamber, took forever.

BPT was 1300ish and the cities were massive and I feel I did everything as well as I could have, so it occurs to me that maybe I am jsut missing one important part of the theory.

Also, how are people getting plastics 30 turns earlier than I did??? Wow.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

1300 beakers sounds very good to me, I don't know how 15GS couldn't have been enough. Maybe you bulbed too many in one turn and therefore wasted overflow? It's the only way I can explain it.

 

[Iamteehee]

How many cities are you going?

You can easily go 6+ cities thanks to +32 free fpt.

 

[stormtrooper412]

Inspired by you, I gave it a try, but could only manage T233.

I must be doing something really wrong, I guess.

I had 15 GS ready by turn 195, which was 8 turns after Plastics.

But when I bulb them, they seem not to chew through the tech tree as fast as people are talking about. The lower bit especially, towards the Stasis Chamber, took forever.

BPT was 1300ish and the cities were massive and I feel I did everything as well as I could have, so it occurs to me that maybe I am jsut missing one important part of the theory.

Also, how are people getting plastics 30 turns earlier than I did??? Wow.

I think I settler 8 or 9 in that game. I bulbed plastics so it was a bit earlier that yours but I played the map a real while ago so I don't really remember anything other that the finish time

 

[consentient]

How many cities are you going?

You can easily go 6+ cities thanks to +32 free fpt.

Four cities. I didn't see a whole lot of room for much more than that, unless I settled weird disconnected cities. Did you all do that?

I think I settler 8 or 9 in that game. I bulbed plastics so it was a bit earlier that yours but I played the map a real while ago so I don't really remember anything other that the finish time

I don't think I will replay, but I'm assuming from what you both said that you settled more cities. Also happiness was a problem early on because of available luxuries, so I'm not sure how I would have grappled with that.

In my opinion, it's not that great a map. I mean, yeah there is gold available from the UA but the actual city spots are not fantastic. I think the dirt on the Mayan Deity Challenge is far better, for example. You SV nuts should take a crack at that (bearing in mind the NQ mod nerfs Science a fair bit so you'll have to adjust your strategy!)

 

[Acken]

I went 8 cities in the spain game lol

 

[poxpower]

171 now on settler... so close, so close.

Acken, did you ever consider The Mausoleum of Hallicarnassus for your freedom strategy?

It's one of the cheapest and easiest wonders to get, but by the end it's worth probably as much gold as Big Ben.
Rough math here, but I'd say 2 prophets, 15-20 scientists, 4 artists, 6 writers... that's 3000-3500 gold you get from the Mausoleum by the time the game is done.

I found that building it on Settler difficulty is really good because the AI have no gold to give you, now I'm wondering how good it would be for Deity...

 

[Acken]

I would make it on settler. Its somewhat less available on deity

 

[vadalaz]

Inspired by you, I gave it a try, but could only manage T233.

I must be doing something really wrong, I guess.

I had 15 GS ready by turn 195, which was 8 turns after Plastics.

But when I bulb them, they seem not to chew through the tech tree as fast as people are talking about. The lower bit especially, towards the Stasis Chamber, took forever.

BPT was 1300ish and the cities were massive and I feel I did everything as well as I could have, so it occurs to me that maybe I am jsut missing one important part of the theory.

Do you have a Plastics save? Those numbers are really good.

I checked that 150k beakers post-Plastics figure, and it seems to be wrong. For 4 cities I'm getting 182k if you don't go Fertilizer first, and 178k if you do. Each additional city adds around 7500 post-Plastics beakers required. Rationalism finisher shaves off 10k if you use it on Satellites.

So in your case with 1300 bpt and 15 GSs, that should be enough science to win in 30-35 turns after Plastics in theory.

 

[stormtrooper412]

My strategy is to always try and use the Ratio finisher on Satellites and Oxford on Nanotechnology while I bulb away the rest