[BTS] Favorite Oracle yield

[Fish Man]

Metal casting, to open up the path for an engineering rush. Those are fun . Also for some reason most AIs don't tech MC until they're well within the medieval era, so it's good trade bait if you get it for (relatively) free. The idea is to trade for currency, CoL, maybe even alphabet with MC; AIs are reluctant to trade it away since it unlocks so many things, meaning you'll have a large window of opportunity for that. So if you play the trading game wisely you might as well have gotten 4 techs from a single Oracle. Finally forges are very good buildings if you have one or more of the mining luxes, and decent even if you don't (3rd most important building in the game tbh).

 

[Major Tom]

Born with myst, take the common path to BW and pottery, writing. Then at crossroads. Of course aesthetics is good play too as trade bait, but getting alpha early (although not monopoly,but being 2nd good enough) I find flexible and give instant trade opportunities (no "we don't want to trade it yet" and so on). Keeping Aesthetic as a later monopoly, perhaps.

In this trade flurry you also happened to get mono too so Theo is a choice too. Surprised that CoL is more popular than Theology.

 

[sampsa]

Surprised that CoL is more popular than Theology.

What is Theo good for though? Both CoL and CS (on the same path) are very valuable techs.

 

[krikav]

Currency is really awesome if you go down the myst-line, because you get so many small techs to sell to the AIs. It's quite insane how much gold you can get if you are abit lucky.
The problem is that you need alfa or math, which isn't really possible. Getting writing in time isn't easy.

 

[lymond]

Ha..I don't even think about Theo. Many games, I never ever have the tech unless I just happen to get it in some peacedeal. Exception, ofc, is an RDV, but how often does one even go for that one...only HOF or GOTM for me. (and you don't need Theo for RDV unless going for fastest finish)

CoL is immensely more valuable than Theo for multiple reasons. Theo is just something you let the AIs worry about.

 

[krikav]

If you are looking for a game to try it out, the NC200 game is ideal:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/nobles-club-200-willem-of-the-dutch.638242/
You can settle your capital and then quickly settle a second city on a PH-marble, and the cities are connected w/o sailing or TW.
It's questionable if oracle is ideal though, but I have a hard time designing a scenario where it makes more sense.

 

[krikav]

If there is any strategy or tactic involving theocracy I would like to hear about it.
Even if it's judged as suboptimal.
High beakercount makes for a good trading chip.
Haga sophia if you have marble and are in the middle of the jungle perhaps?
Theocracy is the fav civic of quite alot of religoius zealots, so that is something.

 

[Major Tom]

If there is any strategy or tactic involving theocracy I would like to hear about it.
Even if it's judged as suboptimal.
High beakercount makes for a good trading chip.
Haga sophia if you have marble and are in the middle of the jungle perhaps?
Theocracy is the fav civic of quite alot of religoius zealots, so that is something.

Good question. Not a big fan of theocracy myself, but a great trading chip as you mention and also a shortcut to paper,edu,lib? (assuming doublebulbed edu, philo. 3 GS, not too hard under certain circumstances.)

 

[Fish Man]

If you are looking for a game to try it out, the NC200 game is ideal:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/nobles-club-200-willem-of-the-dutch.638242/
You can settle your capital and then quickly settle a second city on a PH-marble, and the cities are connected w/o sailing or TW.
It's questionable if oracle is ideal though, but I have a hard time designing a scenario where it makes more sense.

Regarding my opinion of the Oracle play on that map, I've said it once and I'll say it again.

IMO the things you should ask yourself when going Oracle are:
1. What are my chances of getting it,
2. How many beakers will I save compared to how many beakers/hammer I spend, and
3. What, if anything, can I do with the tech/beaker advantage I get with it

 

[Kaitzilla]

If there is any strategy or tactic involving theocracy I would like to hear about it.
Even if it's judged as suboptimal.
High beakercount makes for a good trading chip.
Haga sophia if you have marble and are in the middle of the jungle perhaps?
Theocracy is the fav civic of quite alot of religoius zealots, so that is something.

If I am playing a large, hopeless Pangea map, I will sometimes go out of my way to get Theology just to build and control the AP.

Forcing the AI to join your holy wars against other AI (the victim can't have a single city with AP religion), forcing open borders with shared war (good for teleporting abuse), voting yourself cities, and forcing 10 turns of peace among all members when convenient are all very fun.

Make those nasty 8 turn wars last 2 turns, just long enough to get the goods before a counter attack.

Don't really care about AP victory itself.

 

[Fippy]

Outside of HoF games, i think Oracle only makes sense with Myst starters on deity.
In Iso if i start with somebody like Justi or Sal, i will certainly consider it cos getting CoL not only gives x beakers,
but also +2 happy with temples. Like playing with Cha.
Or if you are in semi iso, bringing the AI Confu can really relax diplo.

Basically the value of Oracle increases with few (or none in Iso) trading partners,
on Pangaea we can usually tech Aest and trade around, but if you are alone getting that Reli & solving some happy problems can be really good. Esp if there are not many good city spots around, ofc with gold mines or long rivers waiting i would not bother
Imo it's a bad start wonder (not counting HoF again), if i already have great commerce there would be no need for taking some risks.

 

[krikav]

In that situation, with the spi leader with the cheap temples it's like you are cha, but going through meditation, getting CoL early opens up the possibility of an very early pacifism too.
There is not even the need to build a library, you just run 3-4 scientists and in a few turns you have pacifism.
Now you are imp/spi/cha/phi.

 

[Tonny]

What if you are playing an OCC game? Then CoL is a no-brainer!

 

[ArchGhost]

Huh, it's been awhile since I've ever even tried for Oracle. I'm still green enough a player that the super early CoL stuff kinda goes over my head and MC is my go-to simply because it's on the Lib and Engineering bulb paths, has a decent cost, Forges are great early, etc. Don't think I've even been in a position to go Currency since it requires Math or Alpha first and Theo is an interesting consideration, but sometimes you can do that (or Divine Right) with a Prophet FROM Oracle instead if you really need a religion for Pacifism or something and Tao is gone already.

Personally I dislike having to consider Marble for something likely to "go" as quickly as the Oracle can; which depends on your AI field. Like many things (and as happened to me in my first attempt at NC200) basing decisions on what the AI usually does can backfire:

Spoiler NC200 :

Neighbor was Pacal, big cultural guy and likes to wonder build? I wrote off Oracle to him or someone else in the fog, even with our Marble, and figured I'd go fast Writing > Alpha so i wasn't waiting on my only Ai partner to trade it for Aes....he didn't build it or any other wonder (owing to his crap production), he didn't get any religion, and had Alpha a couple turns before I would complete it on T70...

That's Masonry + Wheel + at least 6-8 worker turns not spent chopping, yet if you go BW instead some overflow whipping and pre-chopping until ready to pull the trigger can make up some ground compared to not hooking marble.

If you aren't a Myst starter as Fippy mentions it just seems kinda out of the way; that gets you on the path to both Masonry and Priesthood right away. Not having Mining start either means more slow-build time too.

IND makes it a lot more attractive or at least doable then, especially as the MC bulb has some synergy with an IND leader as well. And With IND you don't even have to consider Marble for such a cheap wonder, really, so you save even more without the extra tech diversion and worker turns if you don't start with either Wheel/Myst as an IND leader.

That said I do still build the GLH all the time without IND, but only with about 4+ forests to chop and some overflows.

 

[gaash2]

I almost never worry about marble if I go for Oracle. Not worth the time cost. Mostly play on IMM just started diety, so cant comment to much there but even on IMM I go for it if I have really good commerce or occasionally start w myst and have crap commerce so I can get at least some trade bait even if it’s jusy monarchy