Favorite Star Trek Doctor

[_random_]

EMH: Ensued Much Hilarity

He combined the frequent grumpiness and sarcasm of McCoy (even saying "I'm a doctor, not a doorstop" in First Contact) with the "ridiculously likable" traits that later showed up in Phlox. Favorite moment: hearing the ship's computer say "Last chance to be a hero, doctor..." in the daydream episode.

I don't think EMH had any of Phlox's likeable traits. Sure, he was likable enough in his own way, but he was neither cheerful nor enthusiastic.

Bollix. Enterprise is the second best series, after TNG, and Phlox was one of the best parts of it. He delightfully combines the nerdy obsession with stuff with the traditionalism of an old man (even though he isn't), and a compassion for humans where most other aliens in the series show them disregard or scorn, even after being beaten or outsmarted by them.

Well said. I totally agree that a lot of Trek fans underrate Enterprise.

 

[holy king]

this isnt even a contest.

 

[Serutan]

What holy king said.

 

[Plotinus]

I hate Wesley because he's nails on the chalkboard compared to the rest of the characters. In another setting, he might be more appropriate (he'll always be a Wally Cleaver level of nauseating, though), but against the backdrop of people like Picard, Data, and LaForge, he's utterly intolerable. I understand that having one or two characters who contrast with the rest of the cast can be desirable and useful, but Wesley's character does that in all the wrong ways; it's destructive rather than constructive. Jar Jar is similarly so, except that in Wesley's case his physical presence can be justified (his mom is there, it's part of his Starfleet training, etc), Jar Jar's simply cannot. Compare Wesley to Riker, whose contrasting character compliments the team.

Every word of this is exactly right. I think the comparison to Riker is very insightful.

On the topic, The Doctor all the way. An absolutely superb character brilliantly portrayed, head and shoulders above most of the others in Voyager. McCoy would probably be second, because he is a strong character whereas most of the others seem fairly bloodless, but I didn't like him much. I just wanted to keep shouting: "He's a Vulcan! Of course he's not reacting the way you would! Haven't you learned that yet?"

 

[Leoreth]

I always thought he knew that and just liked to annoy Spock.

 

[Verarde]

VOY was the first series I've seen all the way through. We're working through TNG now, and I like the Doctor better than Crusher. I've also seen a bunch of TOS episodes, and McCoy is great. But I would give my nod to the Doctor, just because he was the first one I ever "met."

 

[Terxpahseyton]

"He's a Vulcan! Of course he's not reacting the way you would! Haven't you learned that yet?"

Half-Vulcan

 

[Leoreth]

Half-Vulcan

In all fairness, even Star Trek writers forgot about that most of the time.

 

[Plotinus]

He self-identifies, and behaves, as Vulcan, though. If McCoy is trying to goad him into acting as his human side dictates, rather than his Vulcan side, then he's being grossly patronising and insensitive.

 

[holy king]

THAT's our mccoy.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

I admit, that I also at times found that McCoy overdid his complaining about Spock and was kind of an ass about it. But I also like him enough to forgive it, because his general nature still delights me. In contrast, the EHM's nature developed to be a pain in my ass in the later stages of VOY. Sort of a whiny pretentious showmanship if that makes any sense.

 

[Leoreth]

In contrast, the EHM's nature developed to be a pain in my ass in the later stages of VOY. Sort of a whiny pretentious showmanship if that makes any sense.

I know exactly what you mean. I also think that Star Trek writers love "not human character desperately wants to become human" plot way too much and that ultimately ruined his character. He always had to explore ways to "express himself" which was only annoying. I don't think I would say that about Voyager but less attempts at character development would've been better here. Or at least apply it to some of the bland, uninteresting characters in the cast (Kim, Chakotay?)!

 

[NinjaCow64]

Ah, a Star Trek thread.

I voted EMH. He was really good and he was quite funny. However, I do have to agree with Leoreth...

I know exactly what you mean. I also think that Star Trek writers love "not human character desperately wants to become human" plot way too much and that ultimately ruined his character. He always had to explore ways to "express himself" which was only annoying. I don't think I would say that about Voyager but less attempts at character development would've been better here. Or at least apply it to some of the bland, uninteresting characters in the cast (Kim, Chakotay?)!

Yeah, that was stupid. However, even this silly plot thread had some good moments (like that hilarious holodeck program he makes ).

 

[Plotinus]

I thought the EMH worked well. The "wanting to be human" thing is perhaps overdone, but they did it very differently with him compared to Data. Data is unemotional and wants emotions and wants to understand and blend in with human society. The EMH, by contrast, seems highly emotional, but what he wants is simply to be taken seriously. He doesn't want to change himself as Data does - except sometimes by refining his program in an attempt to give himself more accomplishments - he just wants respect.

I thought that the character works very well because he's such a mass of contradictions: absurdly pompous and egotistical, while also insecure. He always made sense to me as a character. His contradictions are also what make him a genuinely funny character, although he has enough depth to be used in non-comic roles in the series as well. The fact that his attempts to humanise himself are generally quite pathetic, but obviously heartfelt, seemed to me to tread a nice line between humour and seriousness. And "Tinker, Tenor, Doctor, Spy" is probably the best outright comedy episode of Star Trek ever made.

Contrast with Neelix, a character whom the writers constantly used as comic relief despite the fact that he's about as funny as an autopsy. There's nothing in Neelix's character that makes him funny, which is why he doesn't work as a comic character (or a serious one, come to that). The Doctor is an intrinsically funny character but he also works on a serious level.

 

[NinjaCow64]

I thought the EMH worked well. The "wanting to be human" thing is perhaps overdone, but they did it very differently with him compared to Data. Data is unemotional and wants emotions and wants to understand and blend in with human society. The EMH, by contrast, seems highly emotional, but what he wants is simply to be taken seriously. He doesn't want to change himself as Data does - except sometimes by refining his program in an attempt to give himself more accomplishments - he just wants respect.

I thought that the character works very well because he's such a mass of contradictions: absurdly pompous and egotistical, while also insecure. He always made sense to me as a character. His contradictions are also what make him a genuinely funny character, although he has enough depth to be used in non-comic roles in the series as well. The fact that his attempts to humanise himself are generally quite pathetic, but obviously heartfelt, seemed to me to tread a nice line between humour and seriousness. And "Tinker, Tenor, Doctor, Spy" is probably the best outright comedy episode of Star Trek ever made.

Yeah, that is all quite true. Is "Tinker, Tenor, Doctor, Spy" the one where he daydreams or the one where he impersonates half the crew? They were both great.

Contrast with Neelix, a character whom the writers constantly used as comic relief despite the fact that he's about as funny as an autopsy. There's nothing in Neelix's character that makes him funny, which is why he doesn't work as a comic character (or a serious one, come to that). The Doctor is an intrinsically funny character but he also works on a serious level.

I can't agree with you there. I've never understood Neelix hate, or Voyger hate for that matter. I found that Neelix was a decent character, although it might have purely been his interactions with Tuvok, which were hilarious. Even by himself he wasn't by any means a BAD character. He certainly was no Jar Jar.

It makes me confused when I see quotes on Tv Tropes (edited out long ago) along the lines of: "At least they wrote Jar Jar out Star Wars, instead of that they put Neelix in even more shows and wrote off his spunky girlfriend and replaced her with cardboard cut out Seven of Nine" and I was like, whoa, are we watching different shows? That's exactly the opposite what I think. Neeliz was all right, Kez was downright annoying and Seven of Nine was a major improvement. [/RANT]

 

[Plotinus]

Yeah, that is all quite true. Is "Tinker, Tenor, Doctor, Spy" the one where he daydreams or the one where he impersonates half the crew? They were both great.

The daydream one. It started perfect and then improved.

I can't agree with you there. I've never understood Neelix hate, or Voyger hate for that matter. I found that Neelix was a decent character, although it might have purely been his interactions with Tuvok, which were hilarious. Even by himself he wasn't by any means a BAD character. He certainly was no Jar Jar.

Come on, the interactions with Tuvok were the worst thing about him! They were like Spock/McCoy with all of the warmth, understanding, and nuance (such as there was) drained out of them. Yes, Tuvok doesn't show emotion. Yes, Neelix thinks this is so funny that he invariably addresses Tuvok as "Mr Vulcan" and needles him about it. That's not funny. I'd say it goes right over the line into racial abuse, and coming from someone who looks like a hedgehog in drag that's pretty rich. No wonder Tuvok fantasises about strangling him.

I think Neelix could have been a reasonable character if the writers hadn't used him as the light relief. He's not a funny character. He's just not funny. Giving him scenes and dialogue that's obviously meant to be funny doesn't work, and is annoying, because he's not funny.

Agree with you about Kes, though. They obviously never knew what they wanted to do with her - as with Kim, which was a shame as he could shine on those rare occasions when he was used well (The Chute).

 

[NinjaCow64]

The daydream one. It started perfect and then improved.

Come on, the interactions with Tuvok were the worst thing about him! They were like Spock/McCoy with all of the warmth, understanding, and nuance (such as there was) drained out of them. Yes, Tuvok doesn't show emotion. Yes, Neelix thinks this is so funny that he invariably addresses Tuvok as "Mr Vulcan" and needles him about it. That's not funny. I'd say it goes right over the line into racial abuse, and coming from someone who looks like a hedgehog in drag that's pretty rich. No wonder Tuvok fantasises about strangling him.

I think Neelix could have been a reasonable character if the writers hadn't used him as the light relief. He's not a funny character. He's just not funny. Giving him scenes and dialogue that's obviously meant to be funny doesn't work, and is annoying, because he's not funny.

I honestly don't agree with that, but I respect your opinion.

Agree with you about Kes, though. They obviously never knew what they wanted to do with her - as with Kim, which was a shame as he could shine on those rare occasions when he was used well (The Chute).

Yeah, I agree with you on that one. I Kes wasn't Jar-Jar Binks bad, she was simply dull and mildly annoying. Although I got really annoyed with the episode where they mutilated her character by making her turn into a homicidal maniac after leaving Voyager. That was just wrong. Her send off was actually quite good, but that episode ruined it.

Kim was slightly bland, but he has some really good moments (The Chute being one of them). You know, I've never have had a real problem with any main characters from Star Trek, even the ones everyone seems to hate (like Neelix or Janeway). Except for Wesley, but then that was more the the abuse of the "Wesley Saves the Day TM" episodes rather than any character traits.

Episode plots are where Star Trek sometimes falls over. 99% Star Trek episodes are good, and a lot of those are fantastic, however, when Star Trek makes bad episodes, they make REALLY bad episodes. The Kes coming back one, the one where they get to Transwarp and turn into lizards (oh god), the mirror universe ones from DS9 (please, make it stop) and the one where it turns out to be a teleporter dream in Enterprise (AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!) are horrendous, just to name a few.

But enough rants, Star Trek is an awesome show in general and I love it.

 

[Leoreth]

Trials and Tribble-ations was a great episode though.

While we're on the subject, I must say that I always had a weak spot for Voyager because it was the only Trek series still running when I got into the franchise (although it was probably TNG reruns that pulled me in). So I never really belonged to those who overtly hated it.

But if you look at the show objectively, it made two fundamental mistakes: it forgot about its original premise way too quickly and never fleshed out the character cast.

In my opinion, the only decent characters in Voyager were the EMH and Janeway. I know Janeway gets a lot of hate for her bipolar personality, too (which admittedly isn't too far off, considering how she switched between "I'll uphold Federation principles no matter the cost" like in the pilot and "I'll do anything to get my crew home consequences be damned" like in the finale depending on what's convenient for the plot), but at least Mulgrew portrayed both aspects well and believable in the context of single episodes. A lot was said about the EMH already, and I think he too profited a lot from how Picardo evidently enjoyed to portray him (my favourite EMH episode is "Message in a Bottle", by the way - the one where he has to recapture that Federation experimental ship from Romulans with the second generation EMH).

Paris, Torres, Tuvok, Neelix and Kes I'd rate as average in terms of characterization. Whether you like their characterization or not, at least it was consistent and moderately fleshed out, even if rather static. They did some good stuff with Kes, and she basically filled Troi's role to communicate with supernatural forces when necessary. Sure, it's a plot device, but at least something. Still I think they never really thought her race through. Neelix on the other hand was a viable character in the pilot: he's reasonably competent, and manages to trick himself into Voyager's services. He could've become a less competent alien Han Solo for lack of a better description, but unfortunately he switched right to bumbling annoying comic-relief cook after the pilot.

Chakotay and Kim are the bottom of the mold imo. Kim was bland and static and thus the worst of them all (iirc he was injured in "Scorpion" with plans to write him out, but they chose Kes instead - the wrong decision imo). Chakotay had a point to him when the Maquis subplot still mattered, but became utterly uniteresting and inconsequential as the series progressed. Beltran's wooden acting didn't exactly help matters either.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Speaking of VOY, was anyone else outraged about the episode "Tuvix?" I literally hated the guts of the entire crew out of pure disgust. (yeah, it is getting rather off-topic, but I rarely get to discuss ST )

 

[Verarde]

I wasn't particularly outraged, but I thought it was a pretty lame episode.